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From:
Adam Piontek
To:
Date:
Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:30:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
[idm] 'timeless' music (was Re: NIN?)
Msg-Id:
<20010817153032.59777.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>
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<79.19919842.28ae8b7c@aol.com>
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Since some people recently are debating the "timeless" nature of Nine Inch Nais and related industrial bands (most of which I freely admit I don't and haven't ever listened to), I've been thinking about it as well. I find that I seem to have a much stricter meaning for the word "timeless" than most people. I take it almost literally. You see, while an angst-ridden teenager, I found some meaning and importance in The Downward Spiral, and even now I admit that some of the lyrics have a certain poetic quality to them, and much of the music is still well-done and enjoyable. Much of what I listened to as a teenager is even "timeless" in a very general sense, as applies to my life - a lot of it is so much a part of me, even though it's not my favorite music anymore, that if I do listen to it again, I still enjoy it a lot or get something out of it. However, it's not really, really "timeless". It continues to have some meaning to me, but to me, "timeless" is Shakespeare's Macbeth; "timeless" is Beethoven's 5th; "timeless" is anything that touches so close to the human spirit or the human condition (whatever those are) that they continue to have meaning and affect us, even hundereds of years later. I hate to say this, but I really don't think that NIN or even Coil will still be remembered or thought of much a few hundred years from now. However, I'm fairly confident that many of Shakespeare's plays, or the old Greek plays, or tons of classical music, will be. Is anything "timeless" still being made? Sure it is. Heck, maybe a few odd pop tunes here and there will make it, and maybe NIN's TDS will be one of the longer-lasting pieces - I don't know for sure. I think some of the music by The Police is more timeless than TDS, though. Just because an industrial band takes some themes from the bible and existentialist thought, waters them down 100-fold, embeds it in talk of "machines" and such (how 20th-century!), doesn't make it a great work of art, and certainly doesn't render it timeless. Will any IDM be timeless? I'm willing to bet that some of it might actually gain some wider hearing eventually (probably the mid-career work by Autechre) and last a while. Part of the problem is that true "timelessness" is a largely cultural phenomenon, relying on the majority of the people in a culture appreciating and enjoying a work, and in that way, the culture internalizing the work such that you can't hardly grow up without being exposed to the work in some aspect. So, to a certain extent, I don't see many "timeless" things coming out of the modern age at all, simply because there are so many people and so many works that even the truly potentially timeless works are not absorbed or noticed by everyone. Culture is less fluid; it has become a gas, moving around extremely fast and randomly. A chaotic system in which artistic works flounder and find niches in which they grow, but it takes a gargantuan Hollywood effort to really reach the great mass of people that is today's global culture. Imagine, if humankind does reach out into the great beyond and colonize other worlds, someday there will be multiple cultures on different planets, all developing on their own, with different new "timeless" art that separate worlds will not share. Will they all still remember Shakespeare and Mozart? Probably some relics from the past will always remain. However, how many of us remember much of the "timeless" art that must have been created in Babylonian times? We have almost no record of any Egyptian art - for example, there must have been some form of theater (acting is something humans do without thinking - it isn't much of a leap to act out a story). Why is the earliest theater Greek? The earliest music lost? Because eventually it is all lost. So, will NIN be around in 50 years? Probably it'll be around as long as Trent's fans are alive, but given how culturally-bound the music is (industrial is easily "dated"!), I doubt if the kids 50 years from now will find it as appealing as you did when you were 15. If anything, music kills itself nowadays because most of it is marketed towards kids, and kids are so flighty and picky - they don't *want* old music, for the most part - they want something new that makes them unique; they want music that's different from everything else. They want to feel special. A ready-made market for the music industry to always churn out something new that's just different enough for the new batch of teens to think "this is *my* music - no one else likes this!" Sorry, I've been reading too much Vonnegut lately. -Ada~` __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org