IDM Mailing Archive

I was just listening to 'Data Girl' off 'Opportunity Knox'. Everything in it seems to fall slightly out of time, to the point that I'm finding it kind of unbearable. The thing is, I've never noticed this before, so was just wondering if other kind souls could slap on a copy and listen closely... does it sound like stuff is always falling slightly one side or the other of the beat? I suspect I'm just feeling a little fruity this morning. :-/ Michael -+- Jet Jaguar MP3s http://mp3.com/jetjag/ -+- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 13 Jan 00, Michael Upton wrote re: (idm) Modernist freak-out..:

quoted 2 lines Everything in it seems to fall slightly out of time, to the point

> Everything in it seems to fall slightly out of time, to the point > that I'm finding it kind of unbearable.

Interesting point - I haven't got a copy of this, thus can't say either way, but up to now I've only had a tape of AmonTobin's Bricolage, which sounded just fine 'n dandy in the car. So I jumped at the recent opportunity of obtaining the album 2nd hand on CD - alas! As I had once before written about a Cujo track, Amon Tobin seems to be a bit slack when it comes to adjusting the various keys his samples are in - everything will be sounding great, till suddenly a loop comes in totally out of tune. Well, maybe not *totally* but certainly enough so to put my teeth on edge and make the hairs stand up on my arms (piloerection? Nah, in a BAD way). I know we thrashed this thread to death a good while ago, with lots of people coming out in favour of slap-shod production (sorry if I misquote, but it sounded like a hippie attitude to anything goes). To my ears, this just isn't pleasant and I know that I will not be listening to Bricloage again in a hurry. Pity, because I really love Easy Muffin... I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Don't fall into the trap of criticizing one unique style as 'bad production.' Commercial music has conditioned many to believe that if what one hears isn't produced in a particular style it must be produced incorrectly. Anyone on the list famillar with breakcore should understand that it isn't clean production that makes a track original. -Lee Azzarello On Sat, 15 Jan 2000, Irene McC wrote:

quoted 33 lines On 13 Jan 00, Michael Upton wrote re: (idm) Modernist freak-out..:

> On 13 Jan 00, Michael Upton wrote re: (idm) Modernist freak-out..: > > > Everything in it seems to fall slightly out of time, to the point > > that I'm finding it kind of unbearable. > > Interesting point - I haven't got a copy of this, thus can't say either > way, but up to now I've only had a tape of AmonTobin's Bricolage, > which sounded just fine 'n dandy in the car. > > So I jumped at the recent opportunity of obtaining the album 2nd > hand on CD - alas! As I had once before written about a Cujo > track, Amon Tobin seems to be a bit slack when it comes to > adjusting the various keys his samples are in - everything will be > sounding great, till suddenly a loop comes in totally out of tune. > Well, maybe not *totally* but certainly enough so to put my teeth > on edge and make the hairs stand up on my arms (piloerection? > Nah, in a BAD way). > > I know we thrashed this thread to death a good while ago, with lots > of people coming out in favour of slap-shod production (sorry if I > misquote, but it sounded like a hippie attitude to anything goes). > To my ears, this just isn't pleasant and I know that I will not be > listening to Bricloage again in a hurry. Pity, because I really love > Easy Muffin... > > I > * > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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I'm pretty sensitive to when something is in-tune or not (thirty years of listening to classical music will do that to you), and for all I know Amon Tobin's stuff is woefully out-of-tune in a manner that suggests sloppiness, not inventiveness. But I've heard plenty of music from other places that springs from the latter, whether from microtones, alternative tunings, or just playful or coloristic out-of-tuneness. We all hear differently, so I can easily imagine that what's "color" for one person might be "sour" to another and inaudible to a third. It's the same with rhythm. Playing slightly off-the-beat can have the same sort of effect, perhaps by playing with our expectations or by leading or pulling us into a particular body rhythm. Or it can just be sloppy. But the fact remains that "perfect" tune or "perfect" rhythm is one of the reasons people call electronic music "souless," an appellation I don't entirely disagree with despite my love of electronic music and its many genres. So it pays (for me at least) to question whether a given off-tune or off-beat passage bothers me because of my own prejudices or because the artist Just Didn't Care Enough. -Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hey Irene, I was the one who originally mentioned the out of tune samples in Amon Tobin's stuff. Actually there's only a couple of tracks on Bricolage which are unbearable... Easy Muffin, track 2: At about 47 seconds in, a sax or horn sample comes in that's flatter than the bass and keyboards... I'm listening to it now and it's driving me crazy, makes my throat constrict, very uncomfortable... The next track, Yasawas, has a bassline that's flatter than everything else, which is also pretty annoying. There's a bit of that out of tune bassline thing on the Cuko album too I seem to remember, but not too much... The second Amon Tobin album, Permutation, however is much better as far as I can remember, so perhaps he started paying more attention. Amon's one of my favourite artists and that's why I was sooo pissed off by his slackness on that track. There are some other bits and pieces in other tracks, but often if it's not too extreme it adds a certain fuzzy filmic effect that's quite alright. It's just that his drum programming and choice of samples is so exquisite... At least we've got Hrvatski now hey! I strongly recommend everyone go to www.mp3.com/hrvatski and download all the unreleased tracks or get the DAM CD from there as well as Oiseaux 96-98. Anyway, don't give up on the whole Bricolage album, lots of it is fine if you edit out the most uncomfortable tracks. Peter. -- Peter Hollo raven@fourplay.com.au http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.fourplay.com.au Raven: experimental electronic http://www.fourplay.com.au/sound.html "Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org