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IDM in Keyboard Magazine

8 messages · 5 participants · spans 5 days · search this subject
1994-04-17 03:43Orpheus23 IDM in Keyboard Magazine
1994-04-19 17:44Darshan M. Jesrani IDM in Keyboard Magazine
└─ 1994-04-21 02:27Orpheus23 Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
└─ 1994-04-21 06:03William May Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
1994-04-20 09:38Fredrik Idestam-Almquist Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
1994-04-21 11:55Fredrik Idestam-Almquist Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
1994-04-21 15:59Darshan M. Jesrani Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
1994-04-22 13:21Phil Z Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
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1994-04-17 03:43Orpheus23Been meaning to say something about this for a bit now . . . One of the features in this m
From:
Orpheus23
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Intelligent Dance Music List
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Sat, 16 Apr 1994 22:43:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
IDM in Keyboard Magazine
permalink · <Pine.3.89.9404162205.A6488-0100000@knuth.mtsu.edu>
Been meaning to say something about this for a bit now . . . One of the features in this month's issue of Keyboard Magazine is re: sampling in hip-hop/rap, techno and contemporary classical musics. In the section dealing with Techno, they talk with Thrash, RDJ, the Hartnoll bros., Mark Gage and the guys in Ultramarine about their usage of samples and their thoughts on sampling/samplers in general. If anyone's interested, I'll post some highlights tomorrow after I completely read the article at work . . . :) I did spot a whole lot of "I hate the way they make samplers" kind of comments from just about everyone, and RDJ spazzing over his equipment and methods for the umpteenth-gazillion time. However, I did notice that he admitted that it was a pretty stupid habit of his, or something to that effect. Orpheus23 - orpheus@knuth.mtsu.edu 1701 Beechwood Ave. Nashville, TN 37212-5501
1994-04-19 17:44Darshan M. JesraniHow did those of you who read the article feel about Keyboard Magazine's treatment of the
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Darshan M. Jesrani
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Date:
19 Apr 1994 13:44:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
IDM in Keyboard Magazine
permalink · <01HBD0FUL6EE935LJ4@CENTER.COLGATE.EDU>
How did those of you who read the article feel about Keyboard Magazine's treatment of the 'techno' genre? After having read the article, were you left with the impression that Keyboard gave the interviews in a condescending way - or did you think that it was fair for the most part? The only thing that would lead me to believe that Keyboard doesn't really care too much about what's going on in 'techno' is that the next article in that particular issue highlights sampling with respect to the 'new' avant-garde experimental/classical genre, and the article seems to be a lot more comprehensively and intelligently written. Furthermore, I didn't get the sense from reading that article that the interviewers were patronizing the artists, as in the first piece on techno music. I dunno - it could just be my bias - that's why I was curious to see what you all thought.. Darshan
1994-04-21 02:27Orpheus23I agree with you on your complaint that Keyboard has a bias against IDM/techno artists . .
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Orpheus23
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Darshan M. Jesrani
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Wed, 20 Apr 1994 21:27:08 -0500 (CDT)
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Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
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IDM in Keyboard Magazine
permalink · <Pine.3.89.9404202148.A14147-0100000@knuth.mtsu.edu>
I agree with you on your complaint that Keyboard has a bias against IDM/techno artists . . . However, I can kind of see your point of view. Most keyboardists hold techno in disdain because they view it as "no-brain-no-talent" music (as most of the music/piano performance majors at my former school would tell you) because they generally have very rigid definitions of the words "artist" and "producer," and classify techno as being made by a "producer." To a certain extent, that's correct. Look at The Orb: A producer and an engineer. To be an "artist," one must be able to play an instrument 'sussed' so to speak - none of this MIDI sequencing to cheat on keyboard lines. To a certain extent, I'll agree . . . tracks like "Sesame's Treet" are PRODUCED. Even worse, there's the over abundance of REALLY bad "rave" music. To someone who CAN play keyboards (which I can), it's pretty frustrating to have no-talents punching in a few patterns of cheeze and having it put out, when you can't even afford to get equipment. However, I think I'm lucky to have also trained for a few years as a recording engineer, and later project producer. That's probably where I begin to understand the sheer effort and artistry that is involved in these jobs . . . Most "artists" don't understand how vital a good producer is to having a good track. That's probably the key to why I like (certain) techno so much, and why I (even with my limited means) choose to make it . . . Because I understand and can appreciate production values that other musicians may not; for example, how many of you are blown away just by particular timbres and effects within a track, more so than the rhythm and melody? That's most of ambient music right there, isn't it? Perhaps it's just that musicians (read: most Keyboard readers and most of their editors) refuse to bend their definitions of these roles, despite the proof given to them by certain producers over the past 20 years (George Martin, Brian Eno, Rupert Hine, quite a few others). Now, the thing that perplexes me is this old issue I have that has a cover story on MC Hammer's producer and this other I have with the keyboardist from Jesus Jones (whose sole claim to fame is that he jumps around with his keyboard on stage) . . . :) Anyway, enough of my rambling. After all, what do I know? I don't really hang out with musicians! :) Orpheus23 - orpheus@knuth.mtsu.edu 1701 Beechwood Ave. Nashville, TN 37212-5501
1994-04-21 06:03William MayOn Wed, 20 Apr 1994, Orpheus23 wrote: > To someone who CAN play keyboards (which I can), i
From:
William May
To:
Orpheus23
Cc:
Darshan M. Jesrani ,
Date:
Thu, 21 Apr 1994 01:03:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
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Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
permalink · <Pine.3.87.9404210144.A22401-0100000@mercury.cs.trinity.edu>
On Wed, 20 Apr 1994, Orpheus23 wrote:
quoted 4 lines To someone who CAN play keyboards (which I can), it's> To someone who CAN play keyboards (which I can), it's > pretty frustrating to have no-talents punching in a few patterns of > cheeze and having it put out, when you can't even afford to get > equipment.
That's one of the reasons techno is such a neat form of music in the first place... The art world has kind of forsaken the idea of "talent" in terms of being able to paint or sculpt technically well... Techno actually seems to be becoming, if anything, more respected... Maybe this means the music world is catching on to the fact that ideas are what is important... Just remember that a person with "talent" is just as likely to put out something cheesy as is a person who knows how to punch in a few patterns of whatever...
quoted 7 lines Most "artists" don't understand how vital> Most "artists" don't understand how vital > a good producer is to having a good track. That's probably the key to why > I like (certain) techno so much, and why I (even with my limited means) > choose to make it . . . Because I understand and can appreciate > production values that other musicians may not; for example, how many of > you are blown away just by particular timbres and effects within a > track, more so than the rhythm and melody?
yes... yes... yes... production is a good and happy thing... I never understood why "cool" folks thought stuff that was badly recorded was somehow "purer" and therefore more cool... By the way... Just got the new Psychic TV today, and I am very, very happy... They sound totally different and swell now....
1994-04-20 09:38Fredrik Idestam-Almquist"Darshan M. Jesrani" <DJESRANI@center.colgate.edu> wrote: > How did those of you who read
From:
Fredrik Idestam-Almquist
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Date:
Wed, 20 Apr 94 11:38:46 +0200
Subject:
Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
permalink · <9404200938.AA02361@alv.nada.kth.se>
"Darshan M. Jesrani" <DJESRANI@center.colgate.edu> wrote:
quoted 4 lines How did those of you who read the article feel about Keyboard Magazine's> How did those of you who read the article feel about Keyboard Magazine's > treatment of the 'techno' genre? After having read the article, were > you left with the impression that Keyboard gave the interviews in a > condescending way - or did you think that it was fair for the most part?
Actually - I haven't read the article yet, cuz that mag costs a *fortune* imported here. I'm quite tempted to buy this issue tho. However, I can easily imagine that Keyboard Magazine would treat the techno genre in a condecending way. And I don't think it is likely that the writers of Keyboard Magazine are openminded enough to comprehend what it is that makes idm so special. I don't expect them to understand. They are probably locked up in their own old rules about what makes music good or bad - only they don't apply to this kind of music... Fredrik
1994-04-21 11:55Fredrik Idestam-AlmquistThis genre would be absolutely *nothing* without the producers. Nothing. If you have some
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Fredrik Idestam-Almquist
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,
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Date:
Thu, 21 Apr 94 13:55:16 +0200
Subject:
Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
permalink · <9404211155.AA24502@alv.nada.kth.se>
This genre would be absolutely *nothing* without the producers. Nothing. If you have some other criteria for what makes a song good to you, like for instance complex melodies and harmonies played on any arbitrary instrument, fine, listen to some other genre. This one is IMHO primarily for producers. It is self-evident that just like there are (technically) skilled musicians as well as 'bad' musicians, there are producers that are skilled and producers that are not. Thus complaining about producers in general by referring to the work of 'bad' producers is like complaining about musicians in general by referring to musicians that don't play their instrument very well. I get bored very easily with music made by people who are not both musicians *and* producers. Being able to play an instrument very well is IMHO *not* a very good thing in this genre, as I think that it somehow lessens the feeling for other ways of listening to the music. My experience is that people who are too involved with one part of the music - whether it be harmonies or timbres - will miss out on some other essential part. There is a group called Twice A Man here in Sweden that have been making electronic music since the beginning of the '70:s. The last couple of years they have expressed their interest in techno. So they release this album which they compare to 808 State and Shamen. However, the album is *far* away from any kind of danceoriented beats. There are *great* timbres and overwhelming atmospheres, cuz these guys have a divine relationship to their synthesizers, but it is not even close to techno/dancemusic. It is very obvious that they are too welltrained at making thick webs of sound and melodramatic harmonies & melodies. The 'dance'-part gets lost. Also, they cannot let go of the theatrical vocals, but place them in the foreground of all their songs which makes it even less of a 'techno' record. Also, they tend to confuse 'techno' with 'cyberindustrial' a la 242 etc. I have friends that are mainly musicians, and I have friends that are mainly producers. Those who are musicians every now and then get the idea that they will make some techno to get rich, cuz they think that making good techno is as easy as snapping with your fingers... Well, I wish there were more people like you, Orpheus23, who understand the importance of production. In essence, I think listening to musicians complaining about 'produced' music is like listening to a blind man talking about the sun... Fredrik
1994-04-21 15:59Darshan M. JesraniI agree with you on certain points - especially the issue you raised about Keyboard featur
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Darshan M. Jesrani
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Cc:
Date:
21 Apr 1994 11:59:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
permalink · <01HBFPB6ER8Y9363P0@CENTER.COLGATE.EDU>
I agree with you on certain points - especially the issue you raised about Keyboard featuring other artists who are far less innovative and talented than those featured in their 'techno' article. Sometimes I think that their criteria for the selection of 'featured' artists is as basic as what kinds of gear they use, and how much of it - Keyboard has always seemed to have a gear fetish - but it's an odd and somewhat contradictory one, because while they are all over the 'latest-and- greatest', they tend to stick to their rigid conventions and talk about Rick Wakeman's keyboard rig (which is absurd), and the Hammond fuckin B-3 organ (as if it hasn't been talked about enough).. I suppose that would explain why Nick Rhodes was on the cover of Keyboard way back when (because he played a Fairlight) - too bad Duran Duran's music sucks harder than anything that could be considered IDM - and the same goes for Jesus Jones.. Blechh. Darshan
1994-04-22 13:21Phil ZAt 11:59 AM 4/21/94 -0400, Darshan M. Jesrani wrote: > I agree with you on certain points
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Phil Z
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Date:
Fri, 22 Apr 1994 09:21:53 -0400
Subject:
Re: IDM in Keyboard Magazine
permalink · <199404221321.AA16699@panix.com>
At 11:59 AM 4/21/94 -0400, Darshan M. Jesrani wrote:
quoted 6 lines I agree with you on certain points - especially the issue you raised> I agree with you on certain points - especially the issue you raised > about Keyboard featuring other artists who are far less innovative and > talented than those featured in their 'techno' article. Sometimes > I think that their criteria for the selection of 'featured' artists > is as basic as what kinds of gear they use, and how much of it - Keyboard > has always seemed to have a gear fetish
Isn't that excactly what a magazine called 'Keyboard' is all about? For the short time that I read this magazine I was looking specifically for information about gear, how to use and configure it, and what was available. The same goes for sister publications Guitarist and Drummer (if I have the names right)- these are information magazines about music equipment, not music magazines. I generally laugh at the music articles and reviews in these magazines, because the publications as a whole have no focus on any music scene, but try to walk some fictitious middle ground that expresses very little while paying lip service to the various audiences that might be reading the magazine. Articles and reviews about a particular style of music are best left to the magazines that cater to that style, or to a real genre-crossing magazine like Option. Phil Z