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Does anyone have Sven Vath's latest, recorded as Metal Masters? It's called "Spectrum", and it's on Harthouse. 8080808080808080808080808080808080808080808080808080808080808 0 Paul Rafanello Internet: 808STATE@DELPHI.COM 0 8080808080808080808080808080808080808080808080808080808080808

Dans la Matrice, 808STATE@delphi.com a dit:

quoted 3 lines Does anyone have Sven Vath's latest, recorded as Metal Masters? It's

> > Does anyone have Sven Vath's latest, recorded as Metal Masters? It's > called "Spectrum", and it's on Harthouse.

I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for a band name... I regularly see a band name on x or y compilation that is a registered trademark (ie: 68000, Pentium - processors; dbx, dnr - noise reduction systems) like in this case (Metal Masters is a tm of Sony for their ceramic casing based metal audio tapes). I also see the same thing for album names (TR-606, TB-303 as album names for the red and blue EPs for example). Sometimes it's only a part of the name which i guess is ok, since it's not the same thing (like juno reactor, 808 state). So what is acceptable? Ciao, -- Francois Dion ' IdMEDIA \ Managing: \ Publishing: \ Specialising: CP 312 \ Equation de Base \ Cybernaute \ Multimedia & Telecom St-Lambert, QC \ Francois Dion \ IDM Software \ design, publishing & Canada, J4P 3P8 \ Fuzzy Logic \ Raving Up North \ testing(hard/software)

quoted 2 lines I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for

>I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for >a band name...

You can't copyright a title. I can call my record Like A Virgin or Sparcstation-2 and neither Madonna nor Sun can sue me. Now, if I made a competing product with the same name, they might have a case. Jon Drukman jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

On Wed, 6 Apr 1994, Jon Drukman wrote:

quoted 6 lines I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for

> >I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for > >a band name... > > You can't copyright a title. I can call my record Like A Virgin or > Sparcstation-2 and neither Madonna nor Sun can sue me. Now, if I made > a competing product with the same name, they might have a case.

So why couldn't System 7 release a record as so in the states? Are Apple's lawyers just *too* picky? Matt Corwine Online Editor, XLR8R Magazine

quoted 2 lines So why couldn't System 7 release a record as so in the states? Are

>So why couldn't System 7 release a record as so in the states? Are >Apple's lawyers just *too* picky?

excellent question and i'm afraid i don't have an excellent answer.. perhaps they just feared a lawsuit that would cost them lots of time and money and not help the record. apple DOES have a history of being incredibly litigious. Jon Drukman jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

Jon Drukman sez:

quoted 9 lines So why couldn't System 7 release a record as so in the states? Are

> > >So why couldn't System 7 release a record as so in the states? Are > >Apple's lawyers just *too* picky? > > excellent question and i'm afraid i don't have an excellent answer.. > perhaps they just feared a lawsuit that would cost them lots of time > and money and not help the record. apple DOES have a history of being > incredibly litigious. >

Sure, and even if Apple didn't have a leg to stand on in court, a call from their lawyers saying "we'd prefer if you used another name" could be intimidating looking at their history. Then again, if System 7 had played a few tracks for some key executives in the Seattle area, next month we'd see Microsoft Techno for Windows hit the shelves on the heels of a big lawsuit claiming Gates & co. had invented the stuff in the first place. What a strange industry we work in :-) -H- -- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Howard Berkey howard@netcom.com "Police are investigating whether a freshly severed goats head placed in the center of a pentagram in a San Jose park is linked to a satanic ritual." -- SF Examiner "Duh!" -- me

On Wed, 6 Apr 1994, Howard Berkey wrote:

quoted 6 lines Then again, if System 7 had played a few tracks for some key

> > Then again, if System 7 had played a few tracks for some key > executives in the Seattle area, next month we'd see Microsoft Techno for > Windows hit the shelves on the heels of a big lawsuit claiming Gates & > co. had invented the stuff in the first place. What a strange > industry we work in :-)

shhhhh! There are already enough people who say that techno is "cookie-cutter music." (obviously they don't listen well) I'd hate to see more ammunition for that argument :) Although it would be an interesting application... There'd be templates for various styles, so you could just have it churn out 20 minutes of Orbital bleepery.... Matt

Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com> writes:

quoted 7 lines So why couldn't System 7 release a record as so in the states? Are

> >So why couldn't System 7 release a record as so in the states? Are > >Apple's lawyers just *too* picky? > > excellent question and i'm afraid i don't have an excellent answer.. > perhaps they just feared a lawsuit that would cost them lots of time > and money and not help the record. apple DOES have a history of being > incredibly litigious.

If i remember correctly, it was Apple who approached System 7 when they first heard of the band's then-forthcoming album, and basically threatened them with a suit. A suit of this type almost definitely _will_ hold in court too, so it's something to keep in mind when coming up with band names. It's not just techno bands either: Green Jelly was called Green Jello until they were sued by Jello gellatin. - Dan |=|=|=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=/=|=/=|=/=|=/=|=|=|=|-------------------------- The 8-BIt Collective - Transmission 23 - edrone dan nicholson, Clonor the Other - Finnish Techno Zyndicate 8bit@vlad.bowker.com -=>ICBM volume one available soon!<=- moddan@vlad.bowker.com "This message has been sent out - did you originate it?"

quoted 2 lines It's not just techno bands either: Green Jelly was called Green

>It's not just techno bands either: Green Jelly was called Green >Jello until they were sued by Jello gellatin.

interesting that Thomas Dolby got into trouble with Dolby Labs but Jello Biafra hasn't had any problems about his name. (he's had problems over just about everything else though!) /jon

quoted 5 lines You can't copyright a title. I can call my record Like A Virgin or

> > You can't copyright a title. I can call my record Like A Virgin or > > Sparcstation-2 and neither Madonna nor Sun can sue me. Now, if I made > > a competing product with the same name, they might have a case. > So why couldn't System 7 release a record as so in the states? Are > Apple's lawyers just *too* picky?

Apple claim they're trademarks are applicable to the field of music, because they're computers have audio capabilities.... (ie not only could they sue a computer manufacturer who called the system System 7, they could sue a synth manufacturer who did that too... but they couldn't, say, sue a manufacturer who called a vacuum cleaner System 7....) Whether the trademark prevents a band calling itself System 7, i know not.... Cosmic

Jon Drukman <jdrukman@us.oracle.com> writes:

quoted 6 lines I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for

> >I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for > >a band name... > > You can't copyright a title. I can call my record Like A Virgin or > Sparcstation-2 and neither Madonna nor Sun can sue me. Now, if I made > a competing product with the same name, they might have a case.

Actually, you might run into alot of problems calling your record Sparcstation-2 if it happens to be a registered trademark. What happened to System 7 in the US because of Apple's TM on "System 7" is a prime example. - Dan |=|=|=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=/=|=/=|=/=|=/=|=|=|=|-------------------------- The 8-BIt Collective - Transmission 23 - edrone dan nicholson, Clonor the Other - Finnish Techno Zyndicate 8bit@vlad.bowker.com -=>ICBM volume one available soon!<=- moddan@vlad.bowker.com "This message has been sent out - did you originate it?"

From the cyberdesk of: Jon Drukman

quoted 5 lines I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for

>>I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for >>a band name... >You can't copyright a title. I can call my record Like A Virgin or >Sparcstation-2 and neither Madonna nor Sun can sue me. Now, if I made >a competing product with the same name, they might have a case.

So what was the deal with Negativland's "U2" album? Why did they lose the case or get shafted in the settlement, Jon? However, this particular case may have fallen under the "competing product issue. So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the KLF" roaming about? Is a trademark a trademark a trademark.... ObIDM: Keep an eye out for my new single "Coca-Cola" w/ "McDonald's" on the flip side. Sure, I won't get a nasty letter from some lame lawyer-type on retainer trying to justify his fee...... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael King mike%delta1@rex.cs.tulane.edu Delta Systems New Orleans, LA 70002 Voice: 504.837.9835 Fax: 504.837.9838 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Never under estimate the bandwidth of a station wagon loaded with mag tapes. -Karl Kleinpaste, postmaster Ohio State University ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

quoted 2 lines So what was the deal with Negativland's "U2" album?

>So what was the deal with Negativland's "U2" album? >Why did they lose the case or get shafted in the settlement, Jon?

Negativland settled with Island to avoid a long costly court case that they probably wouldn't win. Even if they did win, the attorney fees would have bankrupted them. Anyway, the issue with Negativland was the cover art, which had "U2" in huge letters. Island was concerned (ahem) that people wouldn't be able to figure out that it wasn't a real U2 album and since U2 had a real album coming out they didn't want people accidentally buying the Negativland thing by mistake. Anyway, in this case, both items were music CDs. Remember, we were talking about naming your record after something that isn't already a record.

quoted 2 lines However, this particular case may have fallen under the "competing product

>However, this particular case may have fallen under the "competing product >issue.

i think so. i have to say that while i'm bummed about what happened to negativland, i DO think they could have concocted a less provocative cover...

quoted 2 lines So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the

>So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the >KLF" roaming about? Is a trademark a trademark a trademark....

Well, she does call it The KLF Experience, which might be enough alteration to get her out of the false advertising claim. I think she's counting on jimmy&bill just not wanting to deal with the hassle of going to court. I think it's unlikely that either side would just settle. This one would probably have to go to trial. Of course, I'm not a lawyer and I don't even play one on TV, so I'm just making random guesses here.

quoted 3 lines ObIDM: Keep an eye out for my new single "Coca-Cola" w/ "McDonald's&qu

>ObIDM: Keep an eye out for my new single "Coca-Cola" w/ "McDonald's" on >the flip side. Sure, I won't get a nasty letter from some lame lawyer-type >on retainer trying to justify his fee......

There was a sushi place in my neighborhood that wanted to call itself McSushi but was asked to Cease & Desist by McDonalds. They didn't fight it and are now called We Be Sushi. But again, this is a "competing products" thing (both are restaurants... well, I guess technically the stuff that McDonalds sells is "food"...) I have to admit that the System 7 thing still puzzles me but I suppose if Apple threatened me with a lawsuit I'd just cave in too. They have an awful lot of money and a lot of lawyers who'd be eager to bleed me dry in court... Jon Drukman jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

quoted 5 lines So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the

> > >So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the > >KLF" roaming about? Is a trademark a trademark a trademark.... > > Well, she does call it The KLF Experience,

uh... what exactly is this? i recall seeing it advertised in the paper at some point as "The KLF featuring Wanda Dee" and wondering what was up... jwombat

quoted 2 lines So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the

> >So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the > >KLF" roaming about? Is a trademark a trademark a trademark....

Well, due to the Kopyright Liberation Front's questionable (ab)uses of copyrights and trademarks in the past, it would seem almost hypocritical for them to go through the bother of fighting Wanda. I would not mind it if they did though. Wanda and company are supposed to be a joke... Paranormal (yrashid@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca)

Paranormal <yrashid@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> writes:

quoted 8 lines So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the

> > > >So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the > > >KLF" roaming about? Is a trademark a trademark a trademark.... > > Well, due to the Kopyright Liberation Front's questionable (ab)uses of > copyrights and trademarks in the past, it would seem almost hypocritical > for them to go through the bother of fighting Wanda. I would not mind it > if they did though. Wanda and company are supposed to be a joke...

This is all old, old news, but I'm quite sure that they _sold_ the rights to the KLF name and the material from "The White Room" to Wanda Dee, and she intended to go around touring as "The KLF". I have yet to see her doing that though, at least in the US. There _is_ a real KLF still though ;-) - Dan |=|=|=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=/=|=/=|=/=|=/=|=|=|=|-------------------------- The 8-BIt Collective - Transmission 23 - edrone dan nicholson, Clonor the Other - Finnish Techno Zyndicate 8bit@vlad.bowker.com -=>ICBM volume one available soon!<=- moddan@vlad.bowker.com "This message has been sent out - did you originate it?"

quoted 3 lines Negativland settled with Island to avoid a long costly court case that

> Negativland settled with Island to avoid a long costly court case that > they probably wouldn't win. Even if they did win, the attorney fees > would have bankrupted them.

Quick question: who are negativeland, what have they done, and what kind of music do they do....? I ask because I heard some weird trippy vocal samples (no music) on the radio (something about how many time zones there were in the USSR....) and the person whose show it was told me it was negativland.... is this the same thing....? thanks, Cosmic

quoted 2 lines Quick question: who are negativeland, what have they done, and what

> Quick question: who are negativeland, what have they done, and what > kind of music do they do....?

Their music is mainly abrasive industrial/noise stuff.... "experimental".

quoted 4 lines I ask because I heard some weird trippy vocal samples (no music) on

> I ask because I heard some weird trippy vocal samples (no music) on > the radio (something about how many time zones there were in the > USSR....) and the person whose show it was told me it was > negativland.... is this the same thing....?

That track is called "Time Zones" and is on their "Escape From Noise" album on SST Records. It's personally one of my favorite tracks of theirs, because it's very trippy, bizarre, and hilarious without being really loud and obnoxious like most of their other tracks which I can only listen to when I'm in the proper mood. I think "Time Zones" would definitely be a nice addition to any ambient set. :) --- Michael Minnich inhuman+@cmu.edu "loops of funk over hardcore beats" <finger me for my PGP key>

Dans la Matrice, Francois a dit:

quoted 6 lines I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for

> > I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for > a band name... I regularly see a band name on x or y compilation that is > a registered trademark (ie: 68000, Pentium - processors; dbx, dnr - noise > reduction systems) like in this case (Metal Masters is a tm of Sony for >

I believe it would only matter if a registered trademark were used on a product (of the same type). In this case, there isn't a product, but just a band name. -kc

808STATE@delphi.com writes:

quoted 2 lines Does anyone have Sven Vath's latest, recorded as Metal Masters? It's

> Does anyone have Sven Vath's latest, recorded as Metal Masters? It's > called "Spectrum", and it's on Harthouse.

Errr... don't you mean Ralph Hildenbeutel's latest? Who's this Sven guy anyway? ;-) - dan |=|=|=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=\=|=/=|=/=|=/=|=/=|=|=|=|-------------------------- The 8-BIt Collective - Transmission 23 - edrone dan nicholson, Clonor the Other - Finnish Techno Zyndicate 8bit@vlad.bowker.com -=>ICBM volume one available soon!<=- moddan@vlad.bowker.com "This message has been sent out - did you originate it?"

quoted 2 lines Does anyone have Sven Vath's latest, recorded as Metal Masters? It's

> Does anyone have Sven Vath's latest, recorded as Metal Masters? It's > called "Spectrum", and it's on Harthouse.

The original is actually quite old -- it appears on the first Harthouse compilation.... Cosmic

quoted 7 lines So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the

> > >So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the > > >KLF" roaming about? Is a trademark a trademark a trademark.... > > > > Well, she does call it The KLF Experience, > > uh... what exactly is this? i recall seeing it advertised in the paper at > some point as "The KLF featuring Wanda Dee" and wondering what was up...

Uh oh... Get the squads out. Shine up those barrels.

On Apr 7, 11:21am, you proclaimed: } >From the cyberdesk of: Jon Drukman } >>I was wondering just how legal it is to use a registered trademark for } >>a band name... } >You can't copyright a title. I can call my record Like A Virgin or } >Sparcstation-2 and neither Madonna nor Sun can sue me. Now, if I made } >a competing product with the same name, they might have a case. } } So what was the deal with Negativland's "U2" album? } Why did they lose the case or get shafted in the settlement, Jon? } } However, this particular case may have fallen under the "competing product } issue. The main thing that brought them to Island's attention was the fact that the cover made it look like the new U2 single, not the new Negativland single, and because U2 were about to release a new single from an upcoming album they really didn't like that. If you have the cover, you'll see in a huge uncompromising take-no-prisoners font "U2", and at the bottom a small "Negativland". When Island found out about this (I think irate U2 fans were calling in complaining about how bad the new "u2" song was! :) they also found the uncleared song samples, and threatened to shut SST down. The out of court settlement was around 80K, or so, which SST heaped onto Mark Hosler & gang... Both sides admit that had the cover been different, none of this probably would have happened. The thing preventing it from being repressed was Casey Kasem's parallel suit over the cuss-filled samples of his voice. } So what exactly can the KLF/Jimmy/Bill do about "Wanda Dee and the } KLF" roaming about? Is a trademark a trademark a trademark.... Nothing if they don't pay their lawyers enough. You KNOW if it was "Wanda Dee and U2" going around, she'd be sharing a cell in Ireland with the Kray twins :) } ObIDM: Keep an eye out for my new single "Coca-Cola" w/ "McDonald's" on } the flip side. Sure, I won't get a nasty letter from some lame lawyer-type } on retainer trying to justify his fee...... Last I heard AT&T were trying to copyright the logo "You Will". Sheesh. Brian

Brian Behlendorf sez:

quoted 6 lines Last I heard AT&T were trying to copyright the logo "You Will".

> > Last I heard AT&T were trying to copyright the logo "You Will". > Sheesh. > > Brian >

Yeah, well get this: "Photon" is a registered trademark of Paramount Pictures. Hopefully the universe won't come to a grinding halt amidst huge lawsuits :-) -H- -- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Howard Berkey howard@netcom.com "Police are investigating whether a freshly severed goats head placed in the center of a pentagram in a San Jose park is linked to a satanic ritual." -- SF Examiner "Duh!" -- me

quoted 4 lines This is all old, old news, but I'm quite sure that they _sold_ the rights

> This is all old, old news, but I'm quite sure that they _sold_ the rights > to the KLF name and the material from "The White Room" to Wanda Dee, and > she intended to go around touring as "The KLF". I have yet to see her doing > that though, at least in the US.

My understanding (gleaned from conversations with Bill Drummond and the band's legal reps in the UK) was that shortly after The White Room was released, the band allowed Wanda Dee the right to tour with KLF material for about three months as part of a settlement for their sampling her without her permission. She was not given permission to bill herself as "The KLF", but did so anyway, and continued to perform under that name well after the three-month initial period expired. (When talking about the shows in interviews she always referred to the act as "Wanda Dee and the KLF Experience", but I've seen quite a few ads and flyers for shows -- including a two-gig stand here in Albuquerque last year -- that billed them simply as "The KLF".) As of about six months ago the band's lawyers were actively collecting information in an attempt to stop her. Nobody on the KLF list has mentioned her being in their town lately, so she may have stopped performing again. -- Lazlo (lazlo@carina.unm.edu)

Brian B. says:

quoted 2 lines Last I heard AT&T were trying to copyright the logo "You Will".

> Last I heard AT&T were trying to copyright the logo "You Will". > Sheesh.

Thanks heavens Microsoft's case for the word "Windows" was thrown out. Imagine all those plate glass washers that would have to pay royalties. PS. Sorry for any bounced email last nite. One of the partitions here filled. Bleah. Andrew -- Andrew Bennett "When the going gets weird, the abennett@phoenix.aps.muohio.edu weird hold out for bonus incentives."