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re: idm/multiculturalism

4 messages · 3 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
1994-03-16 14:46Darshan M. Jesrani IDM/Multiculturalism
└─ 1994-03-17 15:29Michael King Re: IDM/Multiculturalism
1994-03-17 16:56Darshan M. Jesrani Re: IDM/Multiculturalism
1994-03-18 23:17re: idm/multiculturalism
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1994-03-16 14:46Darshan M. JesraniWhat I HATE about all this multicultural/world music bullshit, is that more often than not
From:
Darshan M. Jesrani
To:
Date:
16 Mar 1994 10:46:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
IDM/Multiculturalism
permalink · <01HA1CDFRP08938W2M@CENTER.COLGATE.EDU>
What I HATE about all this multicultural/world music bullshit, is that more often than not, the final prodcut is just an example of tokenism and not a result of a complete interest or immersion in any particular culture. It's like, 'oh gee, thanks for including a little tiny piece of MY CULTURE into your overwhelmingly boring western piece of music - I feel so.. ..represented..'. And please don't use Peter Gabriel or Paul Simon or Philip Glass as counter-examples - I'm talking particularly about our contemporaries - youngish dance/electronic artists (and that new-age Keyboard-magazine fodder crap). Darshan
1994-03-17 15:29Michael KingFrom the cyberdesk of: Darshan M. Jesrani [ dead on comments deleted ] Yeah, forced nostal
From:
Michael King
To:
Darshan M. Jesrani
Cc:
IDM List
Date:
Thu, 17 Mar 1994 09:29:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
Re: IDM/Multiculturalism
Reply to:
IDM/Multiculturalism
permalink · <9403170929.aa04783@delta1.UUCP>
From the cyberdesk of: Darshan M. Jesrani [ dead on comments deleted ] Yeah, forced nostalgia sucks too. I feel so ... historically enlighted.... How do you feel about the whole 'world beat' movement? The Gypsy Kings, Ofra Haza, et al? Is IDM really just I(Western)DM? Now's yer chance for the non-US/UK factions to speak up.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael King mike%delta1@rex.cs.tulane.edu Delta Systems New Orleans, LA 70002 Voice: 504.837.9835 Fax: 504.837.9838 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Never under estimate the bandwidth of a station wagon loaded with mag tapes. -Karl Kleinpaste, postmaster Ohio State University ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1994-03-17 16:56Darshan M. Jesrani>Ok darshan i can sympathize with your sentiments i guess, but what do you >think of Trans
From:
Darshan M. Jesrani
To:
Cc:
Date:
17 Mar 1994 12:56:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: IDM/Multiculturalism
permalink · <01HA2V2R42V8939CC5@CENTER.COLGATE.EDU>
quoted 7 lines Ok darshan i can sympathize with your sentiments i guess, but what do you>Ok darshan i can sympathize with your sentiments i guess, but what do you >think of Transglobal Underground, Muslimgauze, and perhaps Underworld's >styles. it seems that they all borrow from cultures without being >concerned with keeping true to the ethnic heritage. Perhaps "Ritual of >Life" and "Cantamilla" are what you are referring to. But you can't deny >their mass appeal. So what is your opinion on that? There is some really >strong music based on that borrowing principle. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree with you completely - I guess what I was referring to is when the borrowing is not done tastefully or respectfully - 'Cantamilla' is one of my favorite tracks - it's beautiful. I forgot what 'Ritual of Life' sounds like. Also, doesn't Muslimgauze make use of the entire middle-eastern/ Islamic aesthetic? I would consider that to be a genuine interest.. I really wish I could name some tracks that borrow in poor taste, but when I hear them, I usually just say 'this really sucks' and forget about it. Darshan PS. Underworld's stuff overtly uses material borrowed from other ethnic musics?
1994-03-18 23:17peter.gebert@popserver.uni-konstanz.de> What I HATE about all this multicultural/world music bullshit, is that > more often than
From:
To:
Date:
Sat, 19 Mar 1994 00:17:54 +0100
Subject:
re: idm/multiculturalism
permalink · <9403182316.AA20668@techno.Stanford.EDU>
quoted 4 lines What I HATE about all this multicultural/world music bullshit, is that> What I HATE about all this multicultural/world music bullshit, is that > more often than not, the final prodcut is just an example of tokenism and > not a result of a complete interest or immersion in any particular > culture.
yes you're right. i'm not sure whether i said this before on idm, or in some private discussion of this instead, but using some sounds that remind the listener of other places/people in the world is to be held apart from adopting structural ingredients from other cultures, such as with steve reich. i'm sure no-one has incorporated anything from the hidden hinduist meanings of sounds and patterns into their music, or such. in western music (at least), it's traditionally (and quite understandably) the case that what you adopt from another culture is sounds. practically the whole huge apparatus of percussion in classical music got there like this.
quoted 3 lines It's like, 'oh gee, thanks for including a little tiny piece of MY> It's like, 'oh gee, thanks for including a little tiny piece of MY > CULTURE into your overwhelmingly boring western piece of music - I feel > so.. ..represented..'.
i doubt, though, that the tokenism is of the bogus anti-culturalism/racism sort, like maybe in benetton ads where you consistently have those groups of five whites, two blacks, and one east asian (,four female, four male). i don't really want to damn people for some superficial "exotic" colouring that they might add - i rather find it amusing when i see examples of the western world exoticism in japan. (also, the seventies nostalgia that someone hinted at is ok with me.) of course, what is annoying is when people boast with the amounts of foreign cultural influences they have, and then they just sampled tabla. of course, it depends on the position you're in. in a strong position, superficial borrowing won't hurt you.
quoted 4 lines And please don't use Peter Gabriel or Paul Simon or Philip Glass as> And please don't use Peter Gabriel or Paul Simon or Philip Glass as > counter-examples - I'm talking particularly about our contemporaries - > youngish dance/electronic artists (and that new-age Keyboard-magazine > fodder crap).
yep. in fact, those sorts of guys are often the real influences. of course, it would be funny if you were talking about paul simon's percussion ensembles when someone asked you about your influences. it's agreed that you have to say "african drumming" instead. a problem, no doubt. peace, p.