IDM Mailing Archive

Well, isn't this list full of dickheads... Ask yourself this - What kind of music is this list about? - Dance Music Dance music, by definition, is music to dance to, therefore its primary function is to be played loud with a lot of people dancing to it, This can only be realistically achieved via two Technics - This kind of music should come out as vinyl ......QED. Admittedly there are a lot of people (including myself )who also like to sit at home and analyse this music via a hifi and a big smoke. Even then I would recommend the turntable for its ability to produce emotion in records. for example - Aphex Twin - Digeridoo Age of love - age of love Gat decor - passion Influx - Braineater e.t.c "Dr digital waits round the corner ready to bore your system to death" Hi Fi World Oct '93 More on the Glory of Vinyl ; Human hearing is not digital,it is analog,this means that the incident pressure level is continuously varying.It seems perfectly obvious to me now that the reproduction systems should be analog in nature.Digital is a mere approximation of what you could have if you saved some money and brought records instead of cds. The true test of any system is to listen to it and let your ears judge.I was once a cd buyer and invested heavily in the best equipment I could afford (Meridian 200 / 203 combination).I thought that the sound was the best that I had heard.Then one day I sat down and listened to a friends turntable and I was immediately converted to analog media.The pricipal difference was that of involvement in the music and the conveyance of emotion.CDs sounded dull flat lifeless boring tame and uninteresting in comparison. I now bitterly regret the fact that I did not listen to a decent turntable before I spent 1500 on a CD machine that was easily bettered by a turntable at a third of the price. J and A - two Beng Electroacoustics students who know everything

On 4 Feb 1994 J.D.Crawley@acoustics.salford.ac.uk wrote: [Loadsa stuff about how vinyl is better than records.] I didn't want to jump into this thread, 'cos it bores me shitless, but the arguement can be killed off dead with a few simple facts. I hope. 1. A totally fresh piece of vinyl played on a VERY high end turntable. ie Linn LP12 with a Lingo power supply, a 500 pound arm and a 500 quid cartridge is *unarguably* better than any CD player played through the same speakers, amp, cable etc. Hiss? What hiss? 2. Vinyl is totally awkward to use. I have a pair of Technics 1210's. I would shoot any one who suggested I part with them, they are the only way to mix music. But for coming home at night and putting on some sounds, they are just totally crap. Especially now everyone seems to be spreading their music over at least 2 12"s. The ease of use presented by CD's is also *unarguable*. And I didn't even mention stuff about programming, repeat etc. 3. The music on vinyl is subject to damage. I have hundreds of records. I love each and every one of them and take absolute care of them, but still inevitably cracks and pops will creep in. My copy of Surfing on Sine Waves is only a year or so old, but is in need of rejuvenation. The relative robustness (yes I know they scratch etc, but they're not affected by dust fluff etc) of CDs is a big plus. 4. Techno is still not generally available on CD. It is a lot better than it was; virtually all LP's are out on vinyl. But 12"'s are the source of DJ's power. No way are these all available on CD. Solution to these problems... If you're a DJ you have to have decks. If you want all the latest tunes you have to have decks. If you want ease of use, robustness and a facility not to have all your more ambient stuff fucked up by dust etc, get a CD player. My personal solution. Well, I am now finally going to give into CD and buy a CD player as soon as I can afford one. I feel there is enough music coming out on CD to make it worth while. I will then buy all my LP's on CD. But this raises an expensive problem, if I want to mix I will need the vinyl too...... And of course a beautiful big chunk of black vinyl with it's huge gatefold artwork looks far better than a poxy little CD :) 'nuff said. greg, 3 0 3

90% of the time I listen to DJs spin vinyl, I have earplugs in my ears. Try as I might, the subtle nuances of the medium don't come forth, even when I take them out. This whole vinyl "warmth" schtick has been tested thoroughly and dismissed. Buy a CD player and a white noise generator and you'll have more "warmth" than you can deal with. While said bozo is heating up their vacuum tube amplifier connected via gold monster cable to their speakers, I'll be kicking back listening to new CDs shuffle in my six disc. "Dance music was meant to be played on vinyl," FEHH! How about "analog was meant to be generated with hand cranks and bellows." What a joke. The whole thing is analogous (sic) to insisting that computer animations are better on film because the resolution of "film" is inherently higher than a monitor. Nevermind that the original source was a computer and a monitor (clue for the morons, most "dance music" is mastered digitally now). I am beginning to despise the whole "analog" movement and the Aphex cultists. Granted, I'm as much of a Richard James completist as anyone else, but the day I sold my 303 was because I realized that even _if_ I started making music, I wouldn't be so cliched as to use that box. Right now the music I appreciate the most is the music that is a complete left turn from everything else.

|From: pashdown@slack.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) |Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 09:28:08 -0700 (MST) |This whole vinyl "warmth" schtick has been tested thoroughly and dismissed. [...] Uh... no. Some research suggests that frequencies over 20kHz are perceived by humans (though not heard), and that people describe sound with those frequencies added as being "warmer" than the same sound without them. If correct, this could explain the analog "warmth" vs digital "sterility" perception. Analog tape also has some inherent compression, which people have learned to like the sound of. The point is probably moot for dance music, which is all about bottom end. Digital formats still beat vinyl all hollow on the convenience & noise fronts. (Though from recent mail on this list, I gather vinyl is still more convenient for DJs.) I don't buy much vinyl any more. And I won't be budging from DAT and CD until I see a new format with a higher sampling rate. |The whole thing is analogous (sic) to insisting that computer animations are |better on film because the resolution of "film" is inherently higher than a |monitor. Nevermind that the original source was a computer and a monitor |(clue for the morons, most "dance music" is mastered digitally now). [...] Uh.... not quite. The resolution of film is higher. And animations done for film work are done at much-higher-than-video resolutions. If they weren't, those dinos in JP would have looked like blobby shit. Professionally done animations probably *do* look better on film. What has this got to do with idm? Good question. --- C J Silverio ceej@netcom.com ceej@well.sf.ca.us "To come with a well-informed mind is to come with an inability of administering to the vanity of others, which a sensible person would always wish to avoid." --Jane Austen

quoted 2 lines The ease of use presented by CD's is also *unarguable*. And I didn't even

> The ease of use presented by CD's is also *unarguable*. And I didn't even > mention stuff about programming, repeat etc.

Simple question - what's the lowest price system that allows variable-speed playback?

quoted 2 lines 3 0 3

> > 3 0 3

/-oOOo------------oOOo-\ --------------------------/------------------------\-------------------------- "the only constant / Harvey D. Thornburg \ "the only certainty thing is change" / \ is uncertainty" / hthornbu@osiris.ac.hmc.edu \ ------------------------------------------------------------

Someone asks:

quoted 1 line what's the lowest price system that allows variable-speed playback?

>what's the lowest price system that allows variable-speed playback?

Well, Stanton/Vetax's new dual CD player with pitch control etc. costs the same as the traditional dual-1200's + good cartridges setup. And it's sized to fit in one of the 1200 sections of a DJ coffin. But what does this have to do with musicians giving us new music? WIth them pusing ideas and their machinery to do new things that tweak our interest and make us want to dance? Laura