IDM Mailing Archive

Sorry to all those who just want this thread to die, but there are a couple points that i think were overlooked. I'll just use the stupid term shamelessly, because it's not really what I want to talk about. Also, instead of talking about innovation, which has too many "innovative business marketing solutions"-type associations for me, i'll talk about experimentation. The aesthetic of IDM, as with a lot of electronic music, came from the equipment and software available at the time. IDM was an experimental form of music, but it only experimentated with the medium of digital audio and analog hackery. In terms of composition, aesthetics, and culture, it wasn't quite experimental. I don't mean to judge something based solely on it's degree of experimentation; many great compositions and aesthetic moves have come out of IDM. Further experimentation doesn't neccesarily mean falling back on acoustic instrumentation alone. Along the lines of what Simon pointed out, there's still a lot of room for experimenting with the cultural place of the music and sound (outside of the recording or the music venue). This isn't a novel idea (Max Neuhaus is the best example of this), but the novelty of an idea and the room for experimentation within that idea are two seperate things. The first steps in this direction within IDM were the experiments with how the performance happens. Artists including Cex and Matmos have pushed this in very different ways. Having an interesting live show was the simplest way to critique and develop the genre at that point. (You could argue that Matmos doesn't fall into the genre of IDM, I don't care, but their work definitely had the effect of critiquing and developing the genre either way.) Matmos in particular is along the lines as what Simon was talking about, since they formed a grey area between performance art and electronic music. (What Simon seems to be talking about has been developing for a while, however slowly, in the practices of performance art and sound installation.) Matt --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I wouldn't call cex interesting. More like a novelty act. Matt Gilbert <matt@mattgilbert.net> wrote:The first steps in this direction within IDM were the experiments with how the performance happens. Artists including Cex and Matmos have pushed this in very different ways. Having an interesting live show was the simplest way to critique and develop the genre at that point. (You could argue that Matmos doesn't fall into the genre of IDM, I don't care, but their work definitely had the effect of critiquing and developing the genre either way.) Matmos in particular is along the lines as what Simon was talking about, since they formed a grey area between performance art and electronic music. (What Simon seems to be talking about has been developing for a while, however slowly, in the practices of performance art and sound installation.) Matt --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page ? Try My Yahoo!

Failing desperately to name drop ' I observe culture . IDM was an attraction to me by understanding music and dancing that was greater than just a drug experience. Music and performance that facilitates people to recognize their collective identity and to form social bonds that strengthen community. I recognize dance music as having a a positive collective force. It brings people together in a positive pleasurable experience and provides them with a heightened sense of understanding towards the group. The music stimulates conversations of emotive reasoning, and details the observation of delicate details and textures. In your average social encounter, there are no structures that allow individuals to explore (with honesty) each others minds and hearts. Intelligent Dance Music has the ability to transcend the standard practices of music culture and challenge the listener to respond to or question their environment. This is done through the physical motion of dancing, creating a body experience of understanding fluency, discordance, confluence and other abstract concepts. When in a collective setting the group can observe each other and share a communal understanding, enjoyment and celebration of being human. .simon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hi, this sounds very much like some academic book I read a while ago: DISCOGRAPHIES - Dance Music, Culture and the Politics of Sound, Jeremy Gilbert and Ewen Pearson (Routledge: London and New York, 1999) ISBN 0-415-17033-8 Gilbert and Pearson are very much in favour of dance and popular culture as well as the revolutionary potential of the club. It's sort of on the sociology and philosophy of dance music, featuring topics such as "the tribal rite of Saturday night clubbing", "music, meaning, and bodily experience" or heavy stuff like "the metaphysics of sound" or the like. Maybe somebody wants to check it out. Not sure though whether it is still available. Stan |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| INTERVALL-AUDIO Electronic music between Dusseldorf and Tokyo www.intervall-audio.com |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Kong" <nil@obscure.co.nz> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [idm] Re: Referring to IDM as IDM (room for experimentation)

quoted 16 lines Failing desperately to name drop '

> > > Failing desperately to name drop ' > > > I observe culture . IDM was an attraction to me by understanding > music and dancing that was greater than just a drug experience. > > Music and performance that facilitates people to recognize their > collective identity and to form social bonds that strengthen community. > > > I recognize dance music as having a a positive collective force. > > It brings people together in a positive pleasurable experience and > provides them with a heightened sense of understanding towards the

group.

quoted 9 lines The music stimulates conversations of emotive reasoning, and details

> > The music stimulates conversations of emotive reasoning, and details > the observation of delicate details and textures. > > > In your average social encounter, there are no structures that allow > individuals to explore (with honesty) each others minds and hearts. > > Intelligent Dance Music has the ability to transcend the standard

practices

quoted 1 line of music culture and challenge the listener to respond to or question

> of music culture and challenge the listener to respond to or question

their

quoted 22 lines environment.

> environment. > > This is done through the physical motion of dancing, creating a body > experience of understanding fluency, discordance, confluence and other > abstract concepts. > > When in a collective setting the group can observe each other and share > a communal understanding, enjoyment and celebration of being human. > > > .simon > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Lord - and I'd always thought people were going out clubbing to get off their faces and dance like loons. I must have on the other side of the floor from the revolutionary potential and the open exploration of minds and hearts. d.

quoted 1 line "Info Intervall-audio" <info@intervall-audio.com> 02/12/05 12:04 am >&g

>>>"Info Intervall-audio" <info@intervall-audio.com> 02/12/05 12:04 am >>>

Hi, this sounds very much like some academic book I read a while ago: DISCOGRAPHIES - Dance Music, Culture and the Politics of Sound, Jeremy Gilbert and Ewen Pearson (Routledge: London and New York, 1999) ISBN 0-415-17033-8 Gilbert and Pearson are very much in favour of dance and popular culture as well as the revolutionary potential of the club. It's sort of on the sociology and philosophy of dance music, featuring topics such as "the tribal rite of Saturday night clubbing", "music, meaning, and bodily experience" or heavy stuff like "the metaphysics of sound" or the like. Maybe somebody wants to check it out. Not sure though whether it is still available. Stan |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| INTERVALL-AUDIO Electronic music between Dusseldorf and Tokyo www.intervall-audio.com |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Kong" <nil@obscure.co.nz> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [idm] Re: Referring to IDM as IDM (room for experimentation)

quoted 16 lines Failing desperately to name drop '

> > > Failing desperately to name drop ' > > > I observe culture . IDM was an attraction to me by understanding > music and dancing that was greater than just a drug experience. > > Music and performance that facilitates people to recognize their > collective identity and to form social bonds that strengthen community. > > > I recognize dance music as having a a positive collective force. > > It brings people together in a positive pleasurable experience and > provides them with a heightened sense of understanding towards the

group.

quoted 9 lines The music stimulates conversations of emotive reasoning, and details

> > The music stimulates conversations of emotive reasoning, and details > the observation of delicate details and textures. > > > In your average social encounter, there are no structures that allow > individuals to explore (with honesty) each others minds and hearts. > > Intelligent Dance Music has the ability to transcend the standard

practices

quoted 1 line of music culture and challenge the listener to respond to or question

> of music culture and challenge the listener to respond to or question

their

quoted 22 lines environment.

> environment. > > This is done through the physical motion of dancing, creating a body > experience of understanding fluency, discordance, confluence and other > abstract concepts. > > When in a collective setting the group can observe each other and share > a communal understanding, enjoyment and celebration of being human. > > > .simon > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Getting off our faces and dancing like loons can have revolutionary potential and cause the open exploration of minds and hearts. You just haven't been at the right parties. On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:16:41 +0000, David Sim <pmxds@nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

quoted 4 lines Lord - and I'd always thought people were going out clubbing to get off their faces

> Lord - and I'd always thought people were going out clubbing to get off their faces > and dance like loons. I must have on the other side of the floor from the > revolutionary potential and the open exploration of minds and hearts. >

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It's sad how house and raves used to be a spiritual thing for people and now it is just filler in clubs. I would see the revolutionary side if i did not see the cruising drunk egotistical side way in front of it. Kent Williams <chaircrusher@gmail.com> wrote:Getting off our faces and dancing like loons can have revolutionary potential and cause the open exploration of minds and hearts. You just haven't been at the right parties. On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:16:41 +0000, David Sim wrote:

quoted 4 lines Lord - and I'd always thought people were going out clubbing to get off their faces

> Lord - and I'd always thought people were going out clubbing to get off their faces > and dance like loons. I must have on the other side of the floor from the > revolutionary potential and the open exploration of minds and hearts. >

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I don't see that the "cruising drunk egotistical" side is merely a product of recent history; I think it's been part of the scene (and any party-oriented scene) all along. While I'll be the first to admit that I've been tempted to romantically re-imagine the past out of nostalgia, I don't think it helps us deal with the here and now of the scene. That whole "second summer of love" thing also involved the kind of love that you clean up with a mop and bucket. =] drrty, Luis On Feb 14, 2005, at 9:31 AM, ed c wrote:

quoted 29 lines It's sad how house and raves used to be a spiritual thing for people

> It's sad how house and raves used to be a spiritual thing for people > and now it is just filler in clubs. I would see the revolutionary side > if i did not see the cruising drunk egotistical side way in front of > it. > > Kent Williams <chaircrusher@gmail.com> wrote:Getting off our faces and > dancing like loons can have revolutionary > potential and cause the open exploration of minds and hearts. You just > haven't been at the right parties. > > On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:16:41 +0000, David Sim > wrote: >> Lord - and I'd always thought people were going out clubbing to get >> off their faces >> and dance like loons. I must have on the other side of the floor from >> the >> revolutionary potential and the open exploration of minds and hearts. >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

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"second summer of crap." Dance music gives a bad name to IDM, electronica, whatever you want to call it. Whenever i say i produce electronic stuff people automaticaly think i make disco beats in my basement with the same shitty bassline and synth with a diva of some sort. I respect disco and house for its gay history but my god, that died so long ago, but in many ways so did IDM. Luis-Manuel Garcia <lgarcia@uchicago.edu> wrote:I don't see that the "cruising drunk egotistical" side is merely a product of recent history; I think it's been part of the scene (and any party-oriented scene) all along. While I'll be the first to admit that I've been tempted to romantically re-imagine the past out of nostalgia, I don't think it helps us deal with the here and now of the scene. That whole "second summer of love" thing also involved the kind of love that you clean up with a mop and bucket. =] drrty, Luis On Feb 14, 2005, at 9:31 AM, ed c wrote:

quoted 29 lines It's sad how house and raves used to be a spiritual thing for people

> It's sad how house and raves used to be a spiritual thing for people > and now it is just filler in clubs. I would see the revolutionary side > if i did not see the cruising drunk egotistical side way in front of > it. > > Kent Williams wrote:Getting off our faces and > dancing like loons can have revolutionary > potential and cause the open exploration of minds and hearts. You just > haven't been at the right parties. > > On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:16:41 +0000, David Sim > wrote: >> Lord - and I'd always thought people were going out clubbing to get >> off their faces >> and dance like loons. I must have on the other side of the floor from >> the >> revolutionary potential and the open exploration of minds and hearts. >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

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Oy. I have a deadline to meet and I don't have time to critique this as much as it deserves, but it sounds as if mr ed c. needs to travel to gay communities around the world and tell them that their scene is dead, because they've been acting like house is still vibrant and developing. I second jeff's comments about writing dance out of IDM. Luis On Feb 14, 2005, at 11:04 AM, ed c wrote:

quoted 62 lines "second summer of crap." Dance music gives a bad name to IDM,

> "second summer of crap." Dance music gives a bad name to IDM, > electronica, whatever you want to call it. Whenever i say i produce > electronic stuff people automaticaly think i make disco beats in my > basement with the same shitty bassline and synth with a diva of some > sort. I respect disco and house for its gay history but my god, that > died so long ago, but in many ways so did IDM. > > Luis-Manuel Garcia <lgarcia@uchicago.edu> wrote:I don't see that the > "cruising drunk egotistical" side is merely a > product of recent history; I think it's been part of the scene (and any > party-oriented scene) all along. While I'll be the first to admit that > I've been tempted to romantically re-imagine the past out of nostalgia, > I don't think it helps us deal with the here and now of the scene. > That whole "second summer of love" thing also involved the kind of love > that you clean up with a mop and bucket. =] > > drrty, > Luis > > On Feb 14, 2005, at 9:31 AM, ed c wrote: > >> It's sad how house and raves used to be a spiritual thing for people >> and now it is just filler in clubs. I would see the revolutionary side >> if i did not see the cruising drunk egotistical side way in front of >> it. >> >> Kent Williams wrote:Getting off our faces and >> dancing like loons can have revolutionary >> potential and cause the open exploration of minds and hearts. You just >> haven't been at the right parties. >> >> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:16:41 +0000, David Sim >> wrote: >>> Lord - and I'd always thought people were going out clubbing to get >>> off their faces >>> and dance like loons. I must have on the other side of the floor from >>> the >>> revolutionary potential and the open exploration of minds and hearts. >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com

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So, could we please change the name of this mailing list to be: [im] im@hyperreal.org ? or how about just: [m] m@hyperreal.org ?? but thats a little vague, so how about: [em] em@hyperreal.org //that's e.m. = electronic music//unless someone objects that not all em is electronic, but then e can also = experimental, so we should all be happy// To smooth the transition, allow mails sent to idm@hyperreal.org to be fw to the new list name. s. :)

quoted 6 lines Oy. I have a deadline to meet and I don't have time to critique this as

> Oy. I have a deadline to meet and I don't have time to critique this as > much as it deserves, but it sounds as if mr ed c. needs to travel to gay > communities around the world and tell them that their scene is dead, > because they've been acting like house is still vibrant and developing. > > I second jeff's comments about writing dance out of IDM.

-- s. http://www.ArcTone.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoth ed c:

quoted 4 lines It's sad how house and raves used to be a spiritual thing for people

> It's sad how house and raves used to be a spiritual thing for people > and now it is just filler in clubs. I would see the revolutionary side > if i did not see the cruising drunk egotistical side way in front of > it.

I think there's a lot of great "dance" music out right now that bridges the divide between what people normally think of as "dance" music and so-called IDM, stuff that defies being branded as either "house" or "techno". And I'm not talking about the now-formulaic stuff that's "glitchy" just for the sake of being so. Artists like Ricardo Villalobos, Bernhard Pucher (Brian Aneurysm, Echopilot, Confutatis), Eric Estornel, John Tejada, Luciano, Alter Ego, Unai, 2 Dollar Egg, Mike Shannon, John Spring, Dominik Eulberg, Matt Thibideau, and even Mathew Jonson. Labels like Klang, Sub Static, Morris Audio, Traum, Playhouse, Perlon, Output, and Iron Box. Make fun of me all you want, but I'd call a lot of it "cutting edge dance music". Am I off-topic yet? Cheers, -- shawn allen mailto://shawn@alterior.net phone://+1.415.577.3961 http://alterior.net aim://shawnpallen --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

shawn allen wrote:

quoted 28 lines quoth ed c:

>quoth ed c: > > >>It's sad how house and raves used to be a spiritual thing for people >>and now it is just filler in clubs. I would see the revolutionary side >>if i did not see the cruising drunk egotistical side way in front of >>it. >> >> > >I think there's a lot of great "dance" music out right now that bridges >the divide between what people normally think of as "dance" music and >so-called IDM, stuff that defies being branded as either "house" or >"techno". And I'm not talking about the now-formulaic stuff that's >"glitchy" just for the sake of being so. > >Artists like Ricardo Villalobos, Bernhard Pucher (Brian Aneurysm, >Echopilot, Confutatis), Eric Estornel, John Tejada, Luciano, Alter Ego, >Unai, 2 Dollar Egg, Mike Shannon, John Spring, Dominik Eulberg, Matt >Thibideau, and even Mathew Jonson. Labels like Klang, Sub Static, Morris >Audio, Traum, Playhouse, Perlon, Output, and Iron Box. Make fun of me >all you want, but I'd call a lot of it "cutting edge dance music". > >Am I off-topic yet? > >Cheers, > >

I add Ada and the kompakt crew. Imo this labels and musicians have surpassed most idm labels when it comes to innovative music. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoth Roman Sturm:

quoted 2 lines I add Ada and the kompakt crew. Imo this labels and musicians have

> I add Ada and the kompakt crew. Imo this labels and musicians have > surpassed most idm labels when it comes to innovative music.

Definitely. Ada came out to SF last fall and played one of the best live solo acts I've ever seen. Kompakt, Areal, and Sender are all doing great stuff right now. My short list also stupidly neglected Robag Wruhme... sorry about that. :) Cheers, -- shawn allen mailto://shawn@alterior.net phone://+1.415.577.3961 http://alterior.net aim://shawnpallen --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Let's call a spade a spade. 'Intelligent' is a synonym for 'superior.' We (humans) have this terrible habit of carving out little niches for oursleves for the sake of articulating, delineating our individual identities. It's not about the music, it's about ourselves. Keep it broad, keep it simple, keep it real. Why not 'electronica'? So what if it crosses over other genres? The sad thing is once we create a category, our music is made to fit that category--ultimately our identities are made to fit these categories. That's why so much IDM is sounding like...IDM. I.e. Intelligent=fuzzy noises, unpredictable rhythms. 'Intelligent''s gotta go, 'Dance''s definetly gotta go, leaving us with: you guessed it! "Music", which is why we got it in this business in the first place. Fight the arrogance! Jovine4rubrub --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Exactly, this is why I think we should call our list: em@hyperreal.org I know I was being humorous, but seriously, I would change the name! I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of everyone on this list would agree that 'IDM' is a misnomer anyways... And then we would have 1 of our 4 reoccurring topics finally settled! ;) s.

quoted 13 lines Let's call a spade a spade. 'Intelligent' is a synonym for 'superior.&

> Let's call a spade a spade. 'Intelligent' is a synonym for 'superior.' > We (humans) have this terrible habit of carving out little niches for > oursleves for the sake of articulating, delineating our individual > identities. It's not about the music, it's about ourselves. Keep it > broad, keep it simple, keep it real. Why not 'electronica'? So what if > it crosses over other genres? The sad thing is once we create a > category, our music is made to fit that category--ultimately our > identities are made to fit these categories. That's why so much IDM is > sounding like...IDM. I.e. Intelligent=fuzzy noises, unpredictable rhythms. > > 'Intelligent''s gotta go, 'Dance''s definetly gotta go, leaving us with: > you guessed it! "Music", which is why we got it in this business in the > first place. Fight the arrogance!

-- s. http://www.ArcTone.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 6 lines Exactly, this is why I think we should call our list: em@hyperreal.org

> >Exactly, this is why I think we should call our list: em@hyperreal.org > >I know I was being humorous, but seriously, I would change the name! > >I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of everyone on this list

would

quoted 1 line agree that 'IDM' is a misnomer anyways...

>agree that 'IDM' is a misnomer anyways...

Nope. I like it and find absolutely appropriate for the music that sprang up out of artificial intelligence series. What's wrong with it? :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:19:47 +0200 Konstantin Minko <ibss@ukrpack.net> wrote:

quoted 12 lines Exactly, this is why I think we should call our list: em@hyperreal.org

> > > >Exactly, this is why I think we should call our list: em@hyperreal.org > > > >I know I was being humorous, but seriously, I would change the name! > > > >I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of everyone on this list > would > >agree that 'IDM' is a misnomer anyways... > > Nope. I like it and find absolutely appropriate for the music that > sprang up out of artificial intelligence series. What's wrong with it? > :)

Yep. It should've been called 'AIDM' since the 'intelligence' is so clearly 'artificial' ;-) alan ---------------------- Alan Lockett, (Senior Language Co-ordinator, EFL), Language Centre, University of Bristol, 30-32 Tyndall's Park Road, Bristol BS8 1PY, UK Alan.R.Lockett@bristol.ac.uk tel: +44 (0)117 3310914 fax +44 (0)117 3310870 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org