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I always thought Jaco influenced Tom as well, until I read this interview: http://www.ink19.com/issues/september2001/inkSpots/squarepusher.html "When I hear some of your more bass-oriented music, I hear a lot of Jaco Pastorius. It's weird with the Jaco thing, because I'd never heard his stuff, and I was doing this thing where I thought I was inventing a style. And lo and behold, Jaco had already done it, it was already there. That blew my head off, when I first heard him...." I'm a huge fan of both, and at times it almost seems like Tom is channeling Jaco. Too bad they'll never collaborate (in this world). N.

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saltimbocca@gmx.de?wrote: ? Miles probably started it all - "Bitches Brew", "Agharta" and other 70s albums, then Weather Report (who in their own right would be worthy of discussion on this list b/c of Jaco's influence on Tom Jenkinson), Mahavishnu Orchestra ... all those followed in the 80s by Chick Corea's Electric Band, Allan Holdsworth, and a truckload others. Nowadays, Fusion has become synonymous with boring muzak-style music by virtuoso players who somehow have no taste (not just my opinion). Anyway, I think Braindance is a wicked term for this kind of musick they call IDM around here.? :-) Just listening to Black Dog's Bytes - what a wonderful record - you can still hear traces of the 80s in it I think I think this message board rules! good fun to post and read here.... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

yeah that's amazing - you'd think he must have been aware of jaco, the way he plays and also because he's so much younger. Well, who knows.... I love both too Cheers, R. Am 04.03.2004 um 22:35 schrieb terrahertz_og:

quoted 46 lines I always thought Jaco influenced Tom as well, until I

> I always thought Jaco influenced Tom as well, until I > read this interview: > > http://www.ink19.com/issues/september2001/inkSpots/squarepusher.html > > "When I hear some of your more bass-oriented music, I > hear a lot of Jaco Pastorius. > > It's weird with the Jaco thing, because I'd never > heard his stuff, and I was doing this thing where I > thought I was inventing a style. And lo and behold, > Jaco had already done it, it was already there. That > blew my head off, when I first heard him...." > > I'm a huge fan of both, and at times it almost seems > like Tom is channeling Jaco. Too bad they'll never > collaborate (in this world). > > N. > >>>> > saltimbocca@gmx.de wrote: >   > Miles probably started it all - "Bitches Brew", > "Agharta" and other 70s albums, then Weather Report > (who in their own right would be worthy of discussion > on this list b/c of Jaco's influence on Tom > Jenkinson), Mahavishnu Orchestra ... all those > followed in the 80s by Chick Corea's Electric Band, > Allan Holdsworth, and a truckload others. Nowadays, > Fusion has become synonymous with boring muzak-style > music by virtuoso players who somehow have no taste > (not just my opinion). Anyway, I think Braindance is > a wicked term for this kind of musick they call IDM > around here.  :-) Just listening to Black Dog's Bytes > - what a wonderful record - you can still hear traces > of the 80s in it I think > > I think this message board rules! good fun to post and > read here.... > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com >

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I find it almost impossible to believe that he wasn't influenced by Pastorius. The first time I heard Barbary Coast off of Weather Report's "Black Market", I was like 'Oh. So that's where Jenkinson gets it." But I suppose it's possible for two people to develop the same style on different continents. Crazy, though. Later, Alan np:Weather Report:Black Market Quoting saltimbocca@gmx.de:

quoted 62 lines yeah that's amazing - you'd think he must have been aware of jaco, the

> yeah that's amazing - you'd think he must have been aware of jaco, the > way he plays and also because he's so much younger. Well, who knows.... > > I love both too > > Cheers, > R. > Am 04.03.2004 um 22:35 schrieb terrahertz_og: > > > I always thought Jaco influenced Tom as well, until I > > read this interview: > > > > http://www.ink19.com/issues/september2001/inkSpots/squarepusher.html > > > > "When I hear some of your more bass-oriented music, I > > hear a lot of Jaco Pastorius. > > > > It's weird with the Jaco thing, because I'd never > > heard his stuff, and I was doing this thing where I > > thought I was inventing a style. And lo and behold, > > Jaco had already done it, it was already there. That > > blew my head off, when I first heard him...." > > > > I'm a huge fan of both, and at times it almost seems > > like Tom is channeling Jaco. Too bad they'll never > > collaborate (in this world). > > > > N. > > > >>>> > > saltimbocca@gmx.de wrote: > > > > Miles probably started it all - "Bitches Brew", > > "Agharta" and other 70s albums, then Weather Report > > (who in their own right would be worthy of discussion > > on this list b/c of Jaco's influence on Tom > > Jenkinson), Mahavishnu Orchestra ... all those > > followed in the 80s by Chick Corea's Electric Band, > > Allan Holdsworth, and a truckload others. Nowadays, > > Fusion has become synonymous with boring muzak-style > > music by virtuoso players who somehow have no taste > > (not just my opinion). Anyway, I think Braindance is > > a wicked term for this kind of musick they call IDM > > around here. :-) Just listening to Black Dog's Bytes > > - what a wonderful record - you can still hear traces > > of the 80s in it I think > > > > I think this message board rules! good fun to post and > > read here.... > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster > > http://search.yahoo.com > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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Yo d00dz -- I'm a bassist and believe me, Jaco's influence is so pervasive that even if Tom J never heard him before he would still be influenced by him without knowing it simply by listening to other bassists who have been influenced by Jaco. Before Jaco nobody even had the vaguest idea of doing such crazy shit on the bass, he brought the instrument to a whole other level...Squarepusher is cool and extremely innovative in a lot of ways but he didn't think of that bass style all by his lonesome, since Jaco did it in the 70s there have been many other players who followed in that 'lead bass' vein, Tom is just a more recent version... John --- saltimbocca@gmx.de wrote:

quoted 17 lines yeah that's amazing - you'd think he must have been

> yeah that's amazing - you'd think he must have been > aware of jaco, the > way he plays and also because he's so much younger. > Well, who knows.... > > I love both too > > Cheers, > R. > Am 04.03.2004 um 22:35 schrieb terrahertz_og: > > > I always thought Jaco influenced Tom as well, > until I > > read this interview: > > > > >

http://www.ink19.com/issues/september2001/inkSpots/squarepusher.html

quoted 63 lines "When I hear some of your more bass-oriented

> > > > "When I hear some of your more bass-oriented > music, I > > hear a lot of Jaco Pastorius. > > > > It's weird with the Jaco thing, because I'd never > > heard his stuff, and I was doing this thing where > I > > thought I was inventing a style. And lo and > behold, > > Jaco had already done it, it was already there. > That > > blew my head off, when I first heard him...." > > > > I'm a huge fan of both, and at times it almost > seems > > like Tom is channeling Jaco. Too bad they'll > never > > collaborate (in this world). > > > > N. > > > >>>> > > saltimbocca@gmx.de wrote: > > > > Miles probably started it all - "Bitches Brew", > > "Agharta" and other 70s albums, then Weather > Report > > (who in their own right would be worthy of > discussion > > on this list b/c of Jaco's influence on Tom > > Jenkinson), Mahavishnu Orchestra ... all those > > followed in the 80s by Chick Corea's Electric > Band, > > Allan Holdsworth, and a truckload others. > Nowadays, > > Fusion has become synonymous with boring > muzak-style > > music by virtuoso players who somehow have no > taste > > (not just my opinion). Anyway, I think Braindance > is > > a wicked term for this kind of musick they call > IDM > > around here. :-) Just listening to Black Dog's > Bytes > > - what a wonderful record - you can still hear > traces > > of the 80s in it I think > > > > I think this message board rules! good fun to post > and > > read here.... > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for > faster > > http://search.yahoo.com > > > > >

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===== John von Seggern producer remixer DJ Digital Cutup Lounge West Los Angeles <http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com> videogame film and TV scoring with Terra Incognito <http://www.terra-incognito.us> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Am 09.03.2004 um 07:13 schrieb John von Seggern:

quoted 7 lines but he didn't think of

> but he didn't think of > that bass style all by his lonesome, since Jaco did it > in the 70s there have been many other players who > followed in that 'lead bass' vein, Tom is just a more > recent version... > > John

Well said John .... All bass players that hear Jenkinson say the same thing, and I hear it even though I'm not a bassist. There are certain instrumentalists that have basically defined their genre, so much so that a whole school/style could be called after them, and Jaco is the fusion/electric jazz 'god'. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: "Alan R. Lucas"

quoted 6 lines I find it almost impossible to believe that he wasn't influenced by Pastorius.

> I find it almost impossible to believe that he wasn't influenced by Pastorius. > The first time I heard Barbary Coast off of Weather Report's "Black Market", I > was like 'Oh. So that's where Jenkinson gets it." But I suppose it's possible > for two people to develop the same style on different continents. Crazy, though. > Later, > Alan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution "Convergent evolution is an evolutionary process in which organisms not closely related independently acquire some characteristic or characteristics in common. This usually reflects similar responses to similar environmental conditions." http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/4/l_014_01.html "This illustration shows an example of convergent evolution in four different animals from around the globe. They may look similar, but it's not because they're close relatives. Instead, they've evolved similar adaptations because they occupy similar niches - dining on ants, hunting in the high grass, or swimming in the dark - although their evolutionary origins are quite different." Convergent evolution: http://tinyurl.com/3fw9n and http://snipurl.com/4xjt seek np: Kron - Die Remixe --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 15 lines

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution > "Convergent evolution is an evolutionary process in which organisms > not closely related independently acquire some characteristic or > characteristics in common. > This usually reflects similar responses to similar environmental > conditions." > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/4/l_014_01.html > "This illustration shows an example of convergent evolution > in four different animals from around the globe. > They may look similar, but it's not because they're close relatives. > Instead, they've evolved similar adaptations because they occupy > similar niches - > dining on ants, hunting in the high grass, or swimming in the dark - > although their evolutionary origins are quite different."

I dare to challenge this theory - birds may develop similar behaviour/physical appearance according to this theory, but they're unable to pick that up watching other birds. Humans, on the other hand, CAN buy records and pick out stuff. So I'm suspecting it's pure exaggeration on Squarepusher's part. Sorry but I'm a musician myself and I know one likes to brag about one's own inventions - even if you've taken them from somewhere else :-) Picasso once said: The talented ones borrow - geniuses steal! BTW, Any opinions on Ultravisitor?? Roland --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: <saltimbocca@gmx.de>

quoted 8 lines > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/4/l_014_01.html > > "This illustration shows an example of convergent evolution > > in four different animals from around the globe. > > They may look similar, but it's not because they're close relatives. > > Instead, they've evolved similar adaptations because they occupy > > similar niches - > > dining on ants, hunting in the high grass, or swimming in the dark - > > although their evolutionary origins are quite different."

quoted 3 lines I dare to challenge this theory - birds may develop similar

> I dare to challenge this theory - birds may develop similar > behaviour/physical appearance according to this theory, but they're > unable to pick that up watching other birds.

Daring, yes. Don't challenge it until you've re-read it and comprehend it. ;) The theory of convergent evolution makes *no* claim that the birds are learning *anything* by watching other birds!!!! Observed behaviour is ~not~ a facet in the theory of convergent evolution. In completely different parts of the globe, completely ~unrelated~ species are evolving in similar ways, despite no genetic nor regional influence. And not just bird species. Not just animals. "Similar niches" on entirely different locations on the planet. That's convergent evolution, and that's what Jenkinson is claiming: that he never heard Jaco, yet was himself surprised at the similarity. True story on his part or not, it is an example of convergent evolution. seek np: Metic - Master Blaster ep --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org