IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 3 lines DJSTiK420@aol.com wrote:

>DJSTiK420@aol.com wrote: >istening to big loada and imo it blows all other >squarepusher away easily.

I agree. Big Loada is the one. Yeah, it's a collection of ep's and is all over the place but it has a bunch of the tracks where his vision and his technique really fuse and take off, very exciting. a track like Port Rhombus is a great little effusive gem, a perfect manifestation of his effort to work jazz into drill and bass, to work traditional musicianship into super-synthetic programming. but to my ears, a lot of his later attempts to further mine this sort of fusion don't work so good, though i was excited by what he was attempting. sometimes the problem was his stylistically interesting but rhythmically lackluster fusion drumming. the most recent stuff I find painful...it's kind of like he was really on fire when he went off into his jazzoid Music is One Rotten Note thing....and then he got a lot of shit for it, so he came back to acidy breakbeat but with this begrudging, cynical attitude. like he wants to maintain the audience he initially attracted and is even willing to compromise to keep it, but the price is eating at his soul. Anyway, my second favorite is Burning'n Tree, just a collection of early singles, but very nice in my opinion. highlights his drum programming which is not a bad thing. k --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I couldn't disagree more. What I hear in pusher?s new works is the heart of jazz, but in new terms. Instead of trying to emulate acoustic jazz as live musicians play it ei. Sampling jazzy horns and such he's gone to the next degree. Pusher's taken the concept of jazz and adapted it to his instrument (the computer). What?s the point of trying to make something sound acoustic when it's electronic? It makes no sense. If you're going to make that kind of music do it with live musicians playing instruments, not with a laptop. Pusher?s new stuff pushes the envelope of what music is. He?s not concerned with what music was in the past, and that?s why it can be so hard to take, but that?s also why it?s so important to pay attention to. Electronic music is a new form of expression; it?s a shame to put that newness to waist by using it to express old concepts. Go plastic is one of the best albums of all time. And that's that! -charles www.mp3.com/groundchuckles Kurt <supine@pendulous.org> wrote: the most recent stuff I find painful...it's kind of like he was really on fire when he went off into his jazzoid Music is One Rotten Note thing....and then he got a lot of shit for it, so he came back to acidy breakbeat but with this begrudging, cynical attitude. like he wants to maintain the audience he initially attracted and is even willing to compromise to keep it, but the price is eating at his soul. Kurt <supine@pendulous.org> wrote: the most recent stuff I find painful...it's kind of like he was really on fire when he went off into his jazzoid Music is One Rotten Note thing....and then he got a lot of shit for it, so he came back to acidy breakbeat but with this begrudging, cynical attitude. like he wants to maintain the audience he initially attracted and is even willing to compromise to keep it, but the price is eating at his soul. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

I see your point, and it's definitely valid. especially looking at jazz's history as dance music that ended with free-jazz's innovations and techno's history as dance music that's not quite ending with idm's innovations . I like the new Squarepusher stuff, and it moves in a way that reminds me of Elvin Jones as in virtuosity makes it cool, not just tempo and a good groove. but I gotta admit his early Hard Normal Daddy stuff is some of the sweetest music ever made. - a On Saturday, May 24, 2003, at 06:13 AM, Charles Freeman wrote:

quoted 44 lines I couldn't disagree more. What I hear in pusher’s new works is the

> I couldn't disagree more. What I hear in pusher’s new works is the > heart of jazz, but in new terms. Instead of trying to emulate acoustic > jazz as live musicians play it ei. Sampling jazzy horns and such he's > gone to the next degree. Pusher's taken the concept of jazz and > adapted it to his instrument (the computer). What’s the point of > trying to make something sound acoustic when it's electronic? It makes > no sense. If you're going to make that kind of music do it with live > musicians playing instruments, not with a laptop. Pusher’s new stuff > pushes the envelope of what music is. He’s not concerned with what > music was in the past, and that’s why it can be so hard to take, but > that’s also why it’s so important to pay attention to. Electronic > music is a new form of expression; it’s a shame to put that newness to > waist by using it to express old concepts. > > > Go plastic is one of the best albums of all time. And that's that! > > -charles > > www.mp3.com/groundchuckles > Kurt <supine@pendulous.org> wrote: the most recent stuff I find > painful...it's kind of like he was > really on fire when he went off into his jazzoid Music is One Rotten > Note thing....and then he got a lot of shit for it, so he came back > to acidy breakbeat but with this begrudging, cynical attitude. like > he wants to maintain the audience he initially attracted and is even > willing to compromise to keep it, but the price is eating at his soul. > > > > > Kurt <supine@pendulous.org> wrote: > the most recent stuff I find painful...it's kind of like he was > really on fire when he went off into his jazzoid Music is One Rotten > Note thing....and then he got a lot of shit for it, so he came back > to acidy breakbeat but with this begrudging, cynical attitude. like > he wants to maintain the audience he initially attracted and is even > willing to compromise to keep it, but the price is eating at his soul. > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

Andrew Jones 514 Wavecrest Dr. Orlando, FL, 32807 407-927-7607 liminal18@yahoo.com

on 24/5/03 11:13 am the person going by the name Charles Freeman at charliefree@yahoo.com spake :

quoted 12 lines I couldn't disagree more. What I hear in pusher?s new works is the heart of

> I couldn't disagree more. What I hear in pusher?s new works is the heart of > jazz, but in new terms. Instead of trying to emulate acoustic jazz as live > musicians play it ei. Sampling jazzy horns and such he's gone to the next > degree. Pusher's taken the concept of jazz and adapted it to his instrument > (the computer). What?s the point of trying to make something sound acoustic > when it's electronic? It makes no sense. If you're going to make that kind of > music do it with live musicians playing instruments, not with a laptop. > Pusher?s new stuff pushes the envelope of what music is. He?s not concerned > with what music was in the past, and that?s why it can be so hard to take, but > that?s also why it?s so important to pay attention to. Electronic music is a > new form of expression; it?s a shame to put that newness to waist by using it > to express old concepts.

Isn't Jazz an old concept? It's been around a lot longer than the others involved in Squarepusher's style. I mean I totally agree with you that Go Plastic is an evolution of his own musical interests and bringing it all together [if not my favourite], but you seem to have contradicted yourself with that last sentence. If you hear the heart of Jazz in his new music then surely that _is_ expressing an old concept? Or am I misunderstanding you? My fave Is Music is Rotted One Note. Contrary to popular opinion I'm quite into Selection Sixteen. _muff._ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Yes, and no, because while the name Jazz is old the concept of jazz is?change, and musical exploration. Jazz is jazz because it takes the work of the past and changes it into something new not because it sticks to what jazz has been in the past. Pusher?s new work embodies this concept fully. -charles www.mp3.com/groundchuckles Muffin <muffin@signmytits.com> wrote: Isn't Jazz an old concept? It's been around a lot longer than the others involved in Squarepusher's style. I mean I totally agree with you that Go Plastic is an evolution of his own musical interests and bringing it all together [if not my favourite], but you seem to have contradicted yourself with that last sentence. If you hear the heart of Jazz in his new music then surely that _is_ expressing an old concept? Or am I misunderstanding you? My fave Is Music is Rotted One Note. Contrary to popular opinion I'm quite into Selection Sixteen. _muff._ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

that seems like a liberal interpretation of jazz. what impresses me with techno and jazz is how both began around restricted structures. Be-Bop's improvised series of notes and house's 4/4 beat which broke off into other structures that defined the music (techno has trance, breaks, etc. and jazz has swing, spiritual jazz, etc.). It's here that idm and free-improv meet, free jazz is free of be-bop's tones similarly idm is free from house's 4/4 beat. - a On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 12:50 AM, Charles Freeman wrote:

quoted 49 lines Yes, and no, because while the name Jazz is old the concept of jazz

> Yes, and no, because while the name Jazz is old the concept of jazz > is change, and musical exploration. Jazz is jazz because it takes the > work > of the past and changes it into something new not because it sticks to > what jazz has been in the past. Pusher’s new work embodies this concept > fully. > > -charles > > www.mp3.com/groundchuckles > > > Muffin <muffin@signmytits.com> wrote: > Isn't Jazz an old concept? It's been around a lot longer than the > others > involved in Squarepusher's style. I mean I totally agree with you that > Go > Plastic is an evolution of his own musical interests and bringing it > all > together [if not my favourite], but you seem to have contradicted > yourself > with that last sentence. If you hear the heart of Jazz in his new music > then > surely that _is_ expressing an old concept? Or am I misunderstanding > you? > > My fave Is Music is Rotted One Note. Contrary to popular opinion I'm > quite > into Selection Sixteen. > > _muff._ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

Andrew Jones 514 Wavecrest Dr. Orlando, FL, 32807 407-927-7607 liminal18@yahoo.com

At 3:13 AM -0700 5/24/03, Charles Freeman wrote:

quoted 1 line What I hear in pusher's new works is the heart of jazz, but in new terms.

>What I hear in pusher's new works is the heart of jazz, but in new terms.

interesting. yea, i don't know, it just sounds so cool and 'composed' to me. every blorp and snare fill has been carefully sequenced/edited/permitted. reminds me of the (possibly inaccurate) reports around the time of Go Plastic that his live sets we largely prerecorded. i guess it must depend on what you find essential in jazz. if it's any kind of instrumental exploration with a lot of rhythmic ideas, then i guess Squarepusher fits. if it's a certain essentially African-American musical tradition that emphasizes improvisation, I'm not seeing it.

quoted 5 lines Whatís the point of trying to make something sound acoustic when

>Whatís the point of trying to make something sound acoustic when >it's electronic? It makes no sense. If you're going to make that >kind of music do it with live musicians playing instruments, not >with a laptop. Pusherís new stuff pushes the envelope of what music >is. Heís not concerned with what music was in the past,

ironically, i feel like when he 'came back' to a more electronic sound, he was no longer pushing the envelope. I mean, when his material was more focussed around his bass playing, he was doing things few others of his scene could do, or would know about. it brought him to invent things i'd never heard before, even if they referenced older music. Now that he's a laptop twiddler, he's doing lots of the same things a lot of other laptop twiddlers are doing. the basic ideas don't seem so surprising to me the way they might have five or ten years ago. Oh well, to each his own. the guy's definately talented, and i'll keep buying his records to see what he's up to, whether i like them or not. i'm hoping he'll spin off some side projects in some other style. k --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

big loada, though the 'red hot car' single alone might be even better... ;) i was buying photek and source direct records and the guy in the import record shop (mod lang in berkeley) said "you've got to hear this crazy-ass shit!" just in time too, because dancefloor drum n' bass was about to get really boring for a couple of years. dnb is really getting a rennaissance (am i close?) right now, and it's definitely informed by what squarepusher did. it's also been digging deeper into it's hardcore roots. damn i wish it wasn't 4:20 in the morning and me with grumpy neighbors amd 100 pounds of jugle records... j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org