IDM Mailing Archive

2003-03-12 19:07John Hagerhahaha good call. ...or how about it's not piracy because Michael Jackson won't be looking

From:: John Hager <HagerJW@Healthall.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:07:41 -0500
Subject:: Re: [idm] Indie Ethics

hahaha good call. ...or how about it's not piracy because Michael Jackson won't be looking for a missing cd. kinda like saying it's ok to sneak into a movie theater and watch Star Wars without paying because George Lucas won't be missing his original digital cut. john

quoted 1 line c <c@scarcelight.com> 03/12/03 02:00PM >>>

>>> c <c@scarcelight.com> 03/12/03 02:00PM >>>

i like this immaterial object angle.....thats kind of like saying that since houses are built with wood that the builders dont really have a right to sell them, and you can go live in the house for free, cause the arrangement of wood and nails into some kind of order cannot be copywritten. pixilated wrote:

quoted 2 lines Sophistry? The idea of authorial ownership is very much tied up with

> Sophistry? The idea of authorial ownership is very much tied up with > copyright and the idea of a work as an immaterial object. If you

don't

quoted 13 lines see how this relates to the issue of free MP3s, you need to think a

> see how this relates to the issue of free MP3s, you need to think a > little harder. > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Reading [mailto:john.reading@us.didata.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 12:30 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: [idm] Indie Ethics > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pixilated [mailto:pixilated@Alum.Dartmouth.ORG] > > > > No. Records cost money because records cost you money to produce.

quoted 2 lines costs you nothing if someone somehow replicates the music that is

> > costs you nothing if someone somehow replicates the music that is > > produced when that record is played. The product you are selling

when

quoted 1 line you sell a record is a RECORD. The "music" isn't even on there; it

> > you sell a record is a RECORD. The "music" isn't even on there; it

quoted 11 lines in the air and in your brain when you play it on a turntable.

> > in the air and in your brain when you play it on a turntable. > > Otherwise it's just grooves on vinyl. > > sophistry. > > > What I am saying is that it seems strange > > that you could claim sole ownership of the vibrations in the > > air that I > > experience as music. > > > Who claiming this? Entitlement issues with free mp3s has nothing to

quoted 3 lines with this.

> with this. > >

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2003-03-12 19:20pixilatedA movie theater is private property and the theater charges for entry. You are sitting in

From:: pixilated <pixilated@Alum.Dartmouth.ORG>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:20:20 -0500
Subject:: RE: [idm] Indie Ethics
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Indie Ethics

A movie theater is private property and the theater charges for entry. You are sitting in a physical space that no one else can occupy if you do. Anyway, the movies are just an excuse to get you inside so they can sell you $4 candy bars. -----Original Message----- From: John Hager [mailto:HagerJW@Healthall.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:08 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] Indie Ethics hahaha good call. ...or how about it's not piracy because Michael Jackson won't be looking for a missing cd. kinda like saying it's ok to sneak into a movie theater and watch Star Wars without paying because George Lucas won't be missing his original digital cut. john --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2003-03-12 19:33Josh Steinerno no, that would be 1) trespassing and 2) the theater offers you a service of a big sound

From:: Josh Steiner <joschi@eds.org>
To:: John Hager <HagerJW@Healthall.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:33:25 -0800
Subject:: Re: [idm] Indie Ethics
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Indie Ethics

no no, that would be 1) trespassing and 2) the theater offers you a service of a big sound system, a giant screen to stare at and a comfy chair to sit in, much like recod labels offer you a nice little package with purty cover art for the immaterial ideas that you seek. if you think this house example was a good example of an immaterial concept you seriously need to back off of your dogma for a little while and think about what we are talking about here. John Hager wrote:

quoted 5 lines hahaha good call.

>hahaha good call. >...or how about it's not piracy >because Michael Jackson won't be looking for >a missing cd. >

its not theft unless i've deprived you of something.

quoted 114 lines kinda like saying

> >kinda like saying >it's ok to sneak into a movie theater and watch >Star Wars without paying >because George Lucas won't >be missing his original digital cut. > >john > > > > > > >>>>c <c@scarcelight.com> 03/12/03 02:00PM >>> >>>> >>>> >i like this immaterial object angle.....thats kind of like saying that >since houses are built with wood that the builders dont really have a >right >to sell them, and you can go live in the house for free, cause the >arrangement of wood and nails into some kind of order cannot be >copywritten. > > >pixilated wrote: > > > >>Sophistry? The idea of authorial ownership is very much tied up with >>copyright and the idea of a work as an immaterial object. If you >> >> >don't > > >>see how this relates to the issue of free MP3s, you need to think a >>little harder. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: John Reading [mailto:john.reading@us.didata.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 12:30 PM >>To: idm@hyperreal.org >>Subject: RE: [idm] Indie Ethics >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: pixilated [mailto:pixilated@Alum.Dartmouth.ORG] >>> >>>No. Records cost money because records cost you money to produce. >>> >>> >It > > >>>costs you nothing if someone somehow replicates the music that is >>>produced when that record is played. The product you are selling >>> >>> >when > > >>>you sell a record is a RECORD. The "music" isn't even on there; it >>> >>> >is > > >>>in the air and in your brain when you play it on a turntable. >>>Otherwise it's just grooves on vinyl. >>> >>> >>sophistry. >> >> >> >>>What I am saying is that it seems strange >>>that you could claim sole ownership of the vibrations in the >>>air that I >>>experience as music. >>> >>> >>> >> Who claiming this? Entitlement issues with free mp3s has nothing to >> >> >do > > >>with this. >> >> >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> >> > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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