179,854Messages
9,130Senders
30Years
342mboxes

← archive index

RE: [idm] Indie Ethics

2 messages · 2 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
2003-03-11 23:31John Hager Re: [idm] Indie Ethics
└─ 2003-03-11 23:53pixilated RE: [idm] Indie Ethics
expand allcollapse allclick any summary to toggle that message
2003-03-11 23:31John Hagerdude, i'm really not into discussing issues with people who put words into my mouth and va
From:
John Hager
To:
Date:
Tue, 11 Mar 2003 18:31:33 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Indie Ethics
permalink · <se6e2b95.004@jhs_izar.healthall.com>
dude, i'm really not into discussing issues with people who put words into my mouth and vastly incorrect meaning to things i've said. i might as well be arguing with a brick wall. furthermore i'd rather not argue a series of hypothetical circumstances that really get off tangent of the issue at hand. you disagree with this ? fine. you have a different opinion fine. people who steal always try to find a way to justify it, or trivialize it by saying things like i didn't really hurt anyone or cause a physical loss. the saddest part is that they don't realize there just shooting themselves in the foot when they steal. the "wound" just may not appear right away. i've already made the points i've intended to. if there lost on you or someone else, there's not much point in continuing. so i'm going to politely bow out now. john
quoted 1 line Josh Steiner <joschi@eds.org> 03/11/03 05:25PM >>>>>> Josh Steiner <joschi@eds.org> 03/11/03 05:25PM >>>
John Hager wrote:
quoted 4 lines well if i stole a copy of 'Thriller' from>well if i stole a copy of 'Thriller' from >Walmart he wouldn't go looking for it either, >but he would suffer a financial loss for that item. >
*exactly* ... stealing a copy from tower deprives tower of 1 cd that they paid money for, its plain indefensible theft... so explain how downloading some data from another random person *deprives* tower of anyhting? before you suggest that M.J. looses the money that he would have gotten had i bought the record, remember that i would rather die before i bought a MJ album :) the futures argument doesnt hold much water.
quoted 12 lines the cd that MJ sells for money in your music>the cd that MJ sells for money in your music >store is a mass produced COPY that is offered >to the public to own a copy for a price.... >MJ is not offering mp3 copies for free. >otherwise he wouldn't copyright and sell the cd. >the copy of the music, is what your taking >from MJ, knowing he's not offering it for free. >that fact that you have it in mp3 >format instead of a cd still doesn't change the fact >you that you took a copy of his music without paying for it >or authorization. >
so there we go, now we've moved past the theft, MJ has not been deprived of anything, so what you are now venturing into is what right do i have to listen to something without paying... well, do i owe michael jackson money if i stand outside my neighbors window as he's rockin out to the '85 sounds? afterall, i'm listening to MJ's music and he isnt offering free performances in my neighborhood. no, thats rediculous. michael has no right to collect money because his concepts enter my brain. the burden of proof is on the accusor in this society, and i just have yet to see a compelling argument explaining how my listening to a song depreives anyone of anything.
quoted 13 lines john> >john > > > > > > > >>>>Josh Steiner <joschi@eds.org> 03/11/03 04:35PM >>> >>>> >>>> >really? stealing implies that you *take* something from someone, if
i
quoted 2 lines download an mp3 of thriller, does michael jackson spend an hour> >download an mp3 of thriller, does michael jackson spend an hour
digging
quoted 21 lines through his record collection trying to find the copy that i "stole"> >through his record collection trying to find the copy that i "stole" >from him? > >intellectual property is a broken concept. > >c wrote: > > > >>i guess stealing would be a more appropiate term. >> >> >> >>C Twomey wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>I'd like to point out that "pirating" is the term the RIAA/music
biz
quoted 18 lines has given to file>>> >>> >has given to file > > >>>sharing/downloading. Previously "pirating" was the unlicensed >>> >>> >manufacture of hit records > > >>>for retail - like someone in South America copying Michael Jackson >>> >>> >records and importing > > >>>them cheaply into the US. Now RIAA is trying to brand
fans/consumers
quoted 41 lines as pirates which is>>> >>> >as pirates which is > > >>>wrong by definition and just plain stupid as a strategy. - CT >>> >>>John Reading wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>I'd like to see a show of hands of people that don't priate on >>>>> >>>>> >this > > >>>>>list. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> >> >> >> > > > >
-- ____________________________________________________ independent u.s. drum'n'bass -- http://vitriolix.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2003-03-11 23:53pixilatedYou don't seem to understand the nature of discourse. Implicit in the idea of stealing is
From:
pixilated
To:
Date:
Tue, 11 Mar 2003 18:53:26 -0500
Subject:
RE: [idm] Indie Ethics
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Indie Ethics
permalink · <012f01c2e829$69243940$f74eaa81@pocketfig>
You don't seem to understand the nature of discourse. Implicit in the idea of stealing is that of rightful ownership. Just as you define what is theft, you define what is legitimate. I don't think theft is right, but I don't agree with your construction of what theft is. I do, however, applaud your decision to leave the discussion. -----Original Message----- From: John Hager [mailto:HagerJW@Healthall.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 6:32 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] Indie Ethics people who steal always try to find a way to justify it, or trivialize it by saying things like i didn't really hurt anyone or cause a physical loss. the saddest part is that they don't realize there just shooting themselves in the foot when they steal. the "wound" just may not appear right away. i've already made the points i've intended to. if there lost on you or someone else, there's not much point in continuing. so i'm going to politely bow out now. john --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org