IDM Mailing Archive

You mean there are actually some relevant posts pertaining to list members' thoughts on MUSIC?!?!? How dare you! Don't you know that the IDM list is all about being ultra swank and cool? Anyway, this is somewhat related, but a bit off topic from the initial post...BUT, I recently read an article pertaining to a small percentage of people who are able to describe tastes as geometric shapes. They interviewed this guy who was talking about how a certain taste, say, "sour", for example, tasted like triangles. Really strange, but I suppose it ties into that whole aesthetic of relating emotion to sound on some scatterbrained, mescaline trip type of level. Good stuff, this is what the list SHOULD be all about...my humble opinion of course... JS

quoted 42 lines From: "Robert Long" <cosmodrome@hotmail.com>

>From: "Robert Long" <cosmodrome@hotmail.com> >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] Music >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:10:52 -0500 > >I agree, this is an interesting topic. I would like to throw my own >thinking out there. > >As far as imagry and emotions evoked by specific music, i think that the >main factor influencing this is culture. Someone from a western >culture(USA for example) would most likely have a similar response to >someone from a similar western culture. However comparing someone frome >the US to someone from say, Uganda would most likely begin to yield >differences. > >However i think there are some properties of music that are universally >recognized. BPM would be the first to come to mind. above 133 and i >believe anyone would describe this as fast. This may have to do with the >body's own rhythm of heartbeats which is usally less than 80 or 70 bpm. > > > > > >>Someone else in the thread mentioned about how music highlights >>certain aspects of experience - listening to a song suggests a >>particular way of looking at a landscape for instance. >>But it is interesting why people often associate colours, textures or >>images with particular kinds of sounds. i wonder how these >>associations are related to past experiences when listening to the >>same/or similar pieces of music. i wonder if there is a systematic >>way of explaining that? > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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The condition you refer to is called synesthesia and in reality isn't as strange as you may think. Although uncommon, it's actually a very natural brain process that simply gets sent to our internal record too early, from what I understand. I personally wish more research would be done in this field because I think we (as a species) have a lot to learn about the ways in which we observe and react to our surroundings, especially music-wise. A very concise chunk of info on this condition can be found at: http://wearcam.org/synesthesia/synesthesia_long.html italic.

quoted 72 lines You mean there are actually some relevant posts pertaining to list members'

>You mean there are actually some relevant posts pertaining to list members' >thoughts on MUSIC?!?!? How dare you! Don't you know that the IDM list is >all about being ultra swank and cool? > >Anyway, this is somewhat related, but a bit off topic from the initial >post...BUT, I recently read an article pertaining to a small percentage of >people who are able to describe tastes as geometric shapes. They >interviewed this guy who was talking about how a certain taste, say, "sour", >for example, tasted like triangles. Really strange, but I suppose it ties >into that whole aesthetic of relating emotion to sound on some >scatterbrained, mescaline trip type of level. Good stuff, this is what the >list SHOULD be all about...my humble opinion of course... > >JS > > >>From: "Robert Long" <cosmodrome@hotmail.com> >>To: idm@hyperreal.org >>Subject: Re: [idm] Music >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:10:52 -0500 >> >>I agree, this is an interesting topic. I would like to throw my own >>thinking out there. >> >>As far as imagry and emotions evoked by specific music, i think that the >>main factor influencing this is culture. Someone from a western >>culture(USA for example) would most likely have a similar response to >>someone from a similar western culture. However comparing someone frome >>the US to someone from say, Uganda would most likely begin to yield >>differences. >> >>However i think there are some properties of music that are universally >>recognized. BPM would be the first to come to mind. above 133 and i >>believe anyone would describe this as fast. This may have to do with the >>body's own rhythm of heartbeats which is usally less than 80 or 70 bpm. >> >> >> >> >> >>>Someone else in the thread mentioned about how music highlights >>>certain aspects of experience - listening to a song suggests a >>>particular way of looking at a landscape for instance. >>>But it is interesting why people often associate colours, textures or >>>images with particular kinds of sounds. i wonder how these >>>associations are related to past experiences when listening to the >>>same/or similar pieces of music. i wonder if there is a systematic >>>way of explaining that? >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >>http://www.hotmail.com >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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on 10/10/02 8:27 pm the person going by the name Jason Stickel at j_stickel_otfp@hotmail.com spake :

quoted 8 lines Anyway, this is somewhat related, but a bit off topic from the initial

> Anyway, this is somewhat related, but a bit off topic from the initial > post...BUT, I recently read an article pertaining to a small percentage of > people who are able to describe tastes as geometric shapes. They > interviewed this guy who was talking about how a certain taste, say, "sour", > for example, tasted like triangles. Really strange, but I suppose it ties > into that whole aesthetic of relating emotion to sound on some > scatterbrained, mescaline trip type of level. Good stuff, this is what the > list SHOULD be all about...my humble opinion of course...

Search for 'synaesthesia' [american spelling is 'synesthesia'] ... The Oxfored English Dictionary describes this as 'the production of a sense impression relating to one sense or part of the body by stimulation of another sense or part of the body'. I've met a few musicians who are affected by this psychological[1] condition, most commonly the 'see sound'. Each one describes it differently, some see tone and timbre as colour and shape, other's see melody as shape and colour and form, some even have sound hint at smells. I've experience music give me goose-bumps. One has to consider how the mind interprets sound. Whilst we may be able to identify the individual components of a piece of music to say 'Drums', 'Guitar', 'Voice' [ok not IDM] does the synaesthesic affect happen at a higher or lower brain level [IE before we understand the sound or after we understand the sound]. Similar crossing happen with numbers and colours or shapes and colours. Some people smell words. Some people have colours for the alphabet, and hues for words. Many many people recount that music will help them remember things the other way around, such as a song reminding you of a person, or a time or a place, or even use it to trigger memories for revision of school subjects. Why shouldn't these memories of shapes and colours be triggered by music? Like hallucinogenic drugs will bring these shapes and colours into your mind by power of association and letting you look at your mind to a deeper level. Have you ever been reminded of your childhood by the smell of freshly cut grass on a spring morning, or looked at something and had a memory brought back that seems unrelated. In many ways this all seems logical to me. We don't understand how the human mind works, and how we remember things. We have a good idea that our memories are vast, much vaster than what can be stored in a computer memory of equivalent size. But how we store memories, in what form, and whether they stay intact is another matter. Of course this also leads into the philosophy of interpretation, in that as soon as we experience something we memorise it, but that is a memory with our own subjective point of view, however so is our memory, and the associations with that memory will always be tainted by the subjectivity. It's why music is not just something we hear, but something we feel, because it is part of a whole experience that is there at the time of the event. Close your eyes and you hear the music, and feel the music and the temperature of the air, the slight glances of a draught round your neck and your bodies wellbeing and the state of the chemical balance in your mind [natural or unnatural] are all remembered in one way or another along with the music. My favourite quote on music is Leibniz : "Music is nothing but unconscious arithmetic" ... I'd argue with this heavily, but I still like it :) d. [1] possibly neuroglogical : see 'The man who mistook his wife for a hat' by Oliver Sacks --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I'm glad everyone agrees that talking about Music is healthy and enjoyable. 1. On BPM, as Long brought up: Speed is actually REALLY relative. The infamous Chinese Opera is nothing compared to Korean folksongs. Korean folksongs are usually played in 3/4 time, and Korean moderato or midtempo is not based on heartbeat but on the speed of _relaxed breathing_. Thus it sounds almost completely beatless even though most of the instruments used in accompaniment are played percussively. Really amazing stuff, most westerners come away actually nauseated. I'd also like to point out that 133 is actually pretty slow for punk rockers. 2. On synaesthesia, I think everybody experiences this at some point. I'm interested in the near universality of certain descriptors for sounds and styles of music used in writing, esp. tactile adjectives. Rough, smooth, angular, fluid, hard, soft, gritty, thick, and so forth. I used to have a band director in college who said the perfect tone was 'purple' and made us tune and warm up until it got that way. I certainly associate certain sounds with colors and shapes, certainly not to the extent of the woman in the bbc article but evidently moreso than others. I could see myself getting into an argument over why Wedensday is not and never will be blue. Lastly, I want you all to know that I fully support regime change in Music, regardless of the economic situation. Tom --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

OOOH DUDE DUDE DUDE DUDE DUDE I got an idea that's so cool it's impossible How about an audio editing sequencing/editing program that shows waveforms not as big fat spectrum graphs or amplitude envelopes but rather as a big long series of shapes and colors associated with sounds? Users could initally select a series of baseline colors and shapes according to sounds preset into the software- then the program applies the baselines to all input and floats in between the shapes/colors to create big pretty images. I'm CRAZY. And I'm a BIG HONKIN' GEEK. This is why I'm still on the list, really- so I can post this kind of ridiculousness when it hits and not worry about losing my real friends. Tom --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Metasynth is sort of an attempt to do this, and there have been others. The problem is that the visuals are a subjective interpretation of the sound and therefore you have to learn the programmers ideas. You could learn it, but better if it learnt your associations. I remember Matt Black [Coldcut] playing around with some synth software from Ircamm and some form of brain wave analyser about 6 years ago : I didn't hear what it produced unfortunately :( . I'd imagine that would be a whole lot cooler with the increased computing power we have now. The problem with computers as a whole is that the interfaces have become the only way we can think of using them. Composing music in a VR environment could be most interesting, for instance. Again this approaches some of the stuff coldcut have done live, where they use what looked like incredibly large theramins to control sounds, but rather than it being a hand controlling it, it's a dancer. The step on : an entire club where the music and visuals are a formative journey produced by the crowds own emotions and desires? Waffle waffle waffle

quoted 26 lines OOOH DUDE DUDE DUDE DUDE DUDE

> OOOH DUDE DUDE DUDE DUDE DUDE > > I got an idea that's so cool it's impossible > > How about an audio editing sequencing/editing program that shows waveforms > not as big fat spectrum graphs or amplitude envelopes but rather as a big > long series of shapes and colors associated with sounds? > > Users could initally select a series of baseline colors and shapes according > to sounds preset into the software- then the program applies the baselines > to all input and floats in between the shapes/colors to create big pretty > images. > > I'm CRAZY. And I'm a BIG HONKIN' GEEK. > > This is why I'm still on the list, really- so I can post this kind of > ridiculousness when it hits and not worry about losing my real friends. > > Tom > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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quoted 2 lines post...BUT, I recently read an article pertaining to a small percentage of

> post...BUT, I recently read an article pertaining to a small percentage of > people who are able to describe tastes as geometric shapes. They

I think I saw that too: a rare form of synaesthesia ~ the same thing Nabokov had that let him always associate very specific colors with different lettersounds. he talkes about this in the first section of 'speak, memory, his autobiography. Richard Feynman apparently saw the different elements of (written) formulae in different colors... My roommate's got an unusual form of this, certain sounds (e.g., whispered foreign languages she doesn't understand) literally paralyze her with ecstacy. She says she's ridden busses for half an hour after her stop, transfixed by that kind of sound...! ...aaron ghede@well.com http://www.quietamerican.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org