IDM Mailing Archive

In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time, jpklein@telocity.com writes:

quoted 4 lines as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are

> >>as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are > >>collectively spending an astronomical sum of money buying new records > >>and cds each month. how is it possible that there's nothing to say > >>about them?

what i'd like to know is why the labels and artists don't seem to be making any money

Actually the big name artists do make money, but what's really hurting dance music in general is the anti-rave crackdown that's been under way. I think its also safe to say that that is having a negative effect on the music industry as a whole. On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 Oneaphex@aol.com wrote:

quoted 13 lines In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time,

> In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time, > jpklein@telocity.com writes: > > > > >>as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are > > >>collectively spending an astronomical sum of money buying new records > > >>and cds each month. how is it possible that there's nothing to say > > >>about them? > > what i'd like to know is why the labels and artists don't seem to be making > any money > >

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quoted 11 lines In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time,

>In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time, >jpklein@telocity.com writes: > > >> >>as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are >> >>collectively spending an astronomical sum of money buying new records >> >>and cds each month. how is it possible that there's nothing to say >> >>about them? > >what i'd like to know is why the labels and artists don't seem to be making >any money

Yeah, seeing as how Mike Paradinas commented recently that Planet-Mu stuff sells on average around 800 cd copies per release, it makes me wonder if anyone buys Mu stuff that's NOT on this list... -- :::my spine is the bassline::: ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- omz beautamous loaf recordings http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Any kind of art music is a labor of love, if you want to make big $$ in the US, you have to be in rap/rnb, its the only part of the industry that makes money. My girlfriend hangs out with Snoop Dog, and he certainly isn't hurting on record sales, ultimately an indie artist only needs 5,000 fans to buy 1 cd a year to make a living from just producing, but that's much easier said than done. Snoop is definitely the exception, and his secret is that he produces his own work, so he does everything very low budget compared to other major label artists like say Pink, who are stuck with a million different people having points on them. The problem is that the majors are seriously alienating the everyday fans, instead of going after mp3, they should be creating a hi-fi dvd audio standard, so you can have a handheld dvd player which plays back at 24 bit, 96000Hz, mp3s are definitely NOT a "perfect digital copy", what the labelsx fail to understand is that p2p programs are slow and more than half the time you lose the connection before you can finish downloading the track anyway. On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, omz wrote:

quoted 46 lines In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time,

> >In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time, > >jpklein@telocity.com writes: > > > > > >> >>as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are > >> >>collectively spending an astronomical sum of money buying new records > >> >>and cds each month. how is it possible that there's nothing to say > >> >>about them? > > > >what i'd like to know is why the labels and artists don't seem to be making > >any money > > Yeah, seeing as how Mike Paradinas commented recently that Planet-Mu > stuff sells on average around 800 cd copies per release, it makes me > wonder if anyone buys Mu stuff that's NOT on this list... > > -- > :::my spine is the bassline::: > > ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- > omz > > beautamous loaf recordings > http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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I really love your idea about upping the quality standard. I do think that would help a bit, maybe not too much, as people don't seem to care about the lesser quality of mp3s compared to cds, but I'm really aching for better quality, and that sounds like a great way to help push it through. Are there any real plans for upping the standard? Anything the industry will actually promote? I know we kinda have supercds and dvd audio, but I never see that stuff around, except for maybe one or two at Tower Records, and I don't see anyone promoting that. On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Brian Redfern wrote:

quoted 71 lines Any kind of art music is a labor of love, if you want to make big $$ in

> Any kind of art music is a labor of love, if you want to make big $$ in > the US, you have to be in rap/rnb, its the only part of the industry that > makes money. My girlfriend hangs out with Snoop Dog, and he certainly > isn't hurting on record sales, ultimately an indie artist only needs 5,000 > fans to buy 1 cd a year to make a living from just producing, but that's > much easier said than done. Snoop is definitely the exception, and his > secret is that he produces his own work, so he does everything very low > budget compared to other major label artists like say Pink, who are stuck > with a million different people having points on them. The problem is that > the majors are seriously alienating the everyday fans, instead of going > after mp3, they should be creating a hi-fi dvd audio standard, so you can > have a handheld dvd player which plays back at 24 bit, 96000Hz, mp3s are > definitely NOT a "perfect digital copy", what the labelsx fail > to understand is that p2p programs are slow and more than half the time > you lose the connection before you can finish downloading the track > anyway. > > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, omz wrote: > > > >In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time, > > >jpklein@telocity.com writes: > > > > > > > > >> >>as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are > > >> >>collectively spending an astronomical sum of money buying new records > > >> >>and cds each month. how is it possible that there's nothing to say > > >> >>about them? > > > > > >what i'd like to know is why the labels and artists don't seem to be making > > >any money > > > > Yeah, seeing as how Mike Paradinas commented recently that Planet-Mu > > stuff sells on average around 800 cd copies per release, it makes me > > wonder if anyone buys Mu stuff that's NOT on this list... > > > > -- > > :::my spine is the bassline::: > > > > ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- > > omz > > > > beautamous loaf recordings > > http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

Hooray for Pokey!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

What's funny is that they're all focussed on trying to make regular cd's secure by controlling everything at the hardware level, like they'd like to go back and make analog taping illegal, they call it the analog hole. What they should be spending their energy on is making DVD Audio decent, but they refuse to create a standard. Even if DVD Audio were rippable, the result would be waaaay less quality than the original, while I've alwasy thought the sound of CDs was never that great. You'd think the fact that they're a monopoly would make it easier for them to create a new audio standard, but they just can't agree. Had they viewed mp3s as simply a way to preview a track and then sell DVD Audio for $20 a pop they could make up for lost cd sales, but unfortunately they're not that bright. On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 kingmob@nmt.edu wrote:

quoted 93 lines I really love your idea about upping the quality standard. I do think

> I really love your idea about upping the quality standard. I do think > that would help a bit, maybe not too much, as people don't seem to care > about the lesser quality of mp3s compared to cds, but I'm really aching > for better quality, and that sounds like a great way to help push it > through. Are there any real plans for upping the standard? Anything the > industry will actually promote? I know we kinda have supercds and dvd > audio, but I never see that stuff around, except for maybe one or two at > Tower Records, and I don't see anyone promoting that. > > > > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Brian Redfern wrote: > > > Any kind of art music is a labor of love, if you want to make big $$ in > > the US, you have to be in rap/rnb, its the only part of the industry that > > makes money. My girlfriend hangs out with Snoop Dog, and he certainly > > isn't hurting on record sales, ultimately an indie artist only needs 5,000 > > fans to buy 1 cd a year to make a living from just producing, but that's > > much easier said than done. Snoop is definitely the exception, and his > > secret is that he produces his own work, so he does everything very low > > budget compared to other major label artists like say Pink, who are stuck > > with a million different people having points on them. The problem is that > > the majors are seriously alienating the everyday fans, instead of going > > after mp3, they should be creating a hi-fi dvd audio standard, so you can > > have a handheld dvd player which plays back at 24 bit, 96000Hz, mp3s are > > definitely NOT a "perfect digital copy", what the labelsx fail > > to understand is that p2p programs are slow and more than half the time > > you lose the connection before you can finish downloading the track > > anyway. > > > > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, omz wrote: > > > > > >In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time, > > > >jpklein@telocity.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > >> >>as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are > > > >> >>collectively spending an astronomical sum of money buying new records > > > >> >>and cds each month. how is it possible that there's nothing to say > > > >> >>about them? > > > > > > > >what i'd like to know is why the labels and artists don't seem to be making > > > >any money > > > > > > Yeah, seeing as how Mike Paradinas commented recently that Planet-Mu > > > stuff sells on average around 800 cd copies per release, it makes me > > > wonder if anyone buys Mu stuff that's NOT on this list... > > > > > > -- > > > :::my spine is the bassline::: > > > > > > ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- > > > omz > > > > > > beautamous loaf recordings > > > http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > Hooray for Pokey!!! > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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omz writes:

quoted 15 lines In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time,

>> In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time, >> jpklein@telocity.com writes: >> >>>>>as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are >>>>>collectively spending an astronomical sum of money buying new records >>>>>and cds each month. how is it possible that there's nothing to say >>>>>about them? >> >> what i'd like to know is why the labels and artists don't seem to be >> making >> any money > > Yeah, seeing as how Mike Paradinas commented recently that Planet-Mu stuff > sells on average around 800 cd copies per release, it makes me wonder if > anyone buys Mu stuff that's NOT on this list...

That was a very interesting interview - I presume you are talking aboout the one in Sound on Sound (last month?) He said he never actually pays himself anything for running planet mu and sadly I think that is occurring with most labels. Also I think *alot* of money stops in the distirbutors pockets who may forget to pay the label for the 100 CD's they distributed for them (and sold). **-*-Kia --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 06:58 PM 7/30/2002, you wrote:

quoted 11 lines In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time,

>In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time, >jpklein@telocity.com writes: > > > > >>as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are > > >>collectively spending an astronomical sum of money buying new records > > >>and cds each month. how is it possible that there's nothing to say > > >>about them? > >what i'd like to know is why the labels and artists don't seem to be making >any money

Actually I *didn't* write the above statement (those snips and clips can be confusing). My guess is that there aren't all that many of us at large with regard to the whole of the music buying population. And I don't believe there are that many people who as unbalanced in their approach to electronic music mongering as others among the people who glut these lists. On top of that, there is a decent selection of labels and artists out there for what is pretty much a tight-niche audience. I only realize this when I walk into a "regular" music store and see what they stock or make the mistake of asking about a certain artist (whom I think is a household name) only to get a blank stare in return. This is not the real world - unless you count commercials and the odd track playing in the background in a movie/TV show. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Compulsive record buying is a vice for those with disposable income and most of the record fiends I know are looking for work and are having trouble getting the non-disposable income, much less record $$$ (this is in the US, where the economy is taking a serious dump for lack of a better word.) If the IDM list were representative of the general record buying public then the recording industry would probably be completely huge but alas, no. I've -heard- it's a bad time for record labels (and the recording industry in general, intellectual property issues aside) but I don't have any figures to back it up. Hardly anyone (especially in the indie scene) is spending money to get special vinyl, etc etc. and buy back-catalog stuff so there's one example. Maybe it's because Tommy Mattolla (sp?) has a jillion dollar income and all the indies have to spend big bucks just to get any exposure at all!! Don't know, but I bet. Actually, I'd bet you a buck but well, you know, the economy. dave Oneaphex@aol.com wrote:

quoted 19 lines In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time,

>In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time, >jpklein@telocity.com writes: > > > > >>>>as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are >>>>collectively spending an astronomical sum of money buying new records >>>>and cds each month. how is it possible that there's nothing to say >>>>about them? >>>> >>>> > >what i'd like to know is why the labels and artists don't seem to be making >any money > > > >

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At 07:06 PM 7/30/2002, Dave Dunstan wrote:

quoted 5 lines Compulsive record buying is a vice for those with disposable income and

>Compulsive record buying is a vice for those with disposable income and >most of the record fiends I know are looking for work and are having >trouble getting the non-disposable income, much less record $$$ (this is >in the US, where the economy is taking a serious dump for lack of a better >word.)

The rest of your post may be true, but most of the record buying geeks I know (and I know several) do not spend responsibly and a good deal of the income they are disposing of in this manner *isn't* really disposable. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

You mean, just wait till we get a green in office, unfortunately in the state of california the dems are sponsoring the anti-rave legislation. On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Dave Dunstan wrote:

quoted 53 lines I dunno man, most of the ravers I've met aren't actually buying records

> I dunno man, most of the ravers I've met aren't actually buying records > with their disposable income, they're buying other stuff ... ; ) But > yeah , the anti-rave crackdown is pretty ridiculous. Go Bush. Just wait > until we get a Democrat back in office ... > > dave > > Brian Redfern wrote: > > >Actually the big name artists do make money, but what's really hurting > >dance music in general is the anti-rave crackdown that's been under way. I > >think its also safe to say that that is having a negative effect on the > >music industry as a whole. > > > >On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 Oneaphex@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > >>In a message dated 7/30/2002 3:50:54 AM Central Daylight Time, > >>jpklein@telocity.com writes: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>>>as has recently been ascertained, the subscribers of this list are > >>>>>collectively spending an astronomical sum of money buying new records > >>>>>and cds each month. how is it possible that there's nothing to say > >>>>>about them? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>what i'd like to know is why the labels and artists don't seem to be making > >>any money > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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Heh heh, ok, you got me there! Go deficit spending!!! dave Mxyzptlk wrote:

quoted 17 lines At 07:06 PM 7/30/2002, Dave Dunstan wrote:

> At 07:06 PM 7/30/2002, Dave Dunstan wrote: > >> Compulsive record buying is a vice for those with disposable income >> and most of the record fiends I know are looking for work and are >> having trouble getting the non-disposable income, much less record >> $$$ (this is in the US, where the economy is taking a serious dump >> for lack of a better word.) > > > The rest of your post may be true, but most of the record buying geeks > I know (and I know several) do not spend responsibly and a good deal > of the income they are disposing of in this manner *isn't* really > disposable. > > jeff > >

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--- Original Message --- From: orangefroggy@boxfrog.com To: CC: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: [idm] Re: where does the $ go

quoted 3 lines omz writes:

>omz writes: > >> Yeah, seeing as how Mike Paradinas commented recently

that Planet-Mu stuff

quoted 1 line sells on average around 800 cd copies per release, it

>> sells on average around 800 cd copies per release, it

makes me wonder if

quoted 3 lines anyone buys Mu stuff that's NOT on this list...

>> anyone buys Mu stuff that's NOT on this list... > >That was a very interesting interview - I presume you are

talking aboout the

quoted 1 line one in Sound on Sound (last month?) He said he never

>one in Sound on Sound (last month?) He said he never

actually pays himself

quoted 1 line anything for running planet mu and sadly I think that is

>anything for running planet mu and sadly I think that is

occurring with most

quoted 1 line labels.

>labels.

Actually it was on the Mu message board...someone asked a question about Mu sales and Mike P explained the situation...pretty depressing if you ask me :( _________________________ omz http://www.hotweird.com/loaf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org