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skam has a new website up with streaming mp3 tracks of a lot of stuff: videos, photos, some weird mixer thing and a bunch of unreleased tracks by alder & elius, posthuman, tatamax, string theory, quinoline yellow you need flash 5 but its cool http://www.skam.co.uk asterprox --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Alright... I commend record labels for making 'outside of the box' websites. (For the lack of a better term). But COME ON, modern and fancy belong on personal portfolio sites, not the official Skam site. Look at warprecords.com for instance. They pull it off perfectly. It's slick, modern, but it's incredibly easy to navigate and takes no time at all to find what you're looking for. It took me 10 minutes to figure out how to view half the 'sections' on the skam site. I'm all for flash and cutting edge design, but gimme a break. Some of the imagery was very cool, but it's no better than the old skam site (which was one of the WORST I've seen in recent years). That's my worthless two cents :-P - danj. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aster X Prodax" <asterprox@attbi.com> To: "IDM" <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 8:44 PM Subject: [idm] new skam website

quoted 15 lines skam has a new website up with streaming mp3 tracks of a lot of stuff:

> skam has a new website up with streaming mp3 tracks of a lot of stuff: > videos, photos, some weird mixer thing and a bunch of unreleased tracks by > alder & elius, posthuman, tatamax, string theory, quinoline yellow > > you need flash 5 but its cool > > http://www.skam.co.uk > > asterprox > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

--- Dan John <djohn1@cogeco.ca> wrote:

quoted 6 lines Alright... I commend record labels for making 'outside of the box'

> Alright... I commend record labels for making 'outside of the box' > websites. (For the lack of a better term). But COME ON, modern and > fancy belong on personal portfolio sites, not the official Skam site. > Look at warprecords.com for instance. They pull it off perfectly. It's > slick, modern, but it's incredibly easy to navigate and takes no time at > all to find what you're looking for.

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Ummm... you're kidding, right? If not, please tell what you think does belong on the Skam site? And I'm curious, which other web sites you've looked at, if the old skam site is the worst you've seen in recent years.... Not to mention that web sites haven't been around much longer than 8 years anyway. Dan John wrote:

quoted 29 lines Alright... I commend record labels for making 'outside of the box' websites. (Fo

> Alright... I commend record labels for making 'outside of the box' websites. (For the lack of a better term). But COME ON, modern and fancy belong on personal portfolio sites, not the official Skam site. Look at warprecords.com for instance. They pull it off perfectly. It's slick, modern, but it's incredibly easy to navigate and takes no time at all to find what you're looking for. > > It took me 10 minutes to figure out how to view half the 'sections' on the skam site. I'm all for flash and cutting edge design, but gimme a break. > > Some of the imagery was very cool, but it's no better than the old skam site (which was one of the WORST I've seen in recent years). That's my worthless two cents :-P > > - danj. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aster X Prodax" <asterprox@attbi.com> > To: "IDM" <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 8:44 PM > Subject: [idm] new skam website > > > skam has a new website up with streaming mp3 tracks of a lot of stuff: > > videos, photos, some weird mixer thing and a bunch of unreleased tracks by > > alder & elius, posthuman, tatamax, string theory, quinoline yellow > > > > you need flash 5 but its cool > > > > http://www.skam.co.uk > > > > asterprox > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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At 21.15 -0700 02-04-07, lysaabi wrote:

quoted 2 lines Ummm... you're kidding, right?

>Ummm... you're kidding, right? >If not, please tell what you think does belong on the Skam site?

something that's usable? that doesn't take half an hour and a lot of guesswork to navigate? i thought the old skam site was gorgeous visually, but horrible from a usage point of view. the first time i visited it, i spent five minutes fumbling about and then decided it was a lost cause. i never went back again. hs -- _____________________________ fossil fuel for fossil people --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

what's this then? http://www.skam.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

its a fortnightly video magazine... not the label -thor On Mon, 8 Apr 2002, Reading, John wrote:

quoted 9 lines what's this then?

> what's this then? > > http://www.skam.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 Dan John baited:

quoted 2 lines Ummm... you're kidding, right?

> Ummm... you're kidding, right? > If not, please tell what you think does belong on the Skam site?

Like he said: "easy to navigate and takes no time at all to find what you're looking for" The Skam site is just plain annoying. Unless you've been through it a few times and *memorized* where everything is, then forget it. .`-). christopher miller o o.' evil@cirex.net == ' --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

on the real, the old site, the one with the green light box thingee was a pain in the rear to get around w/...i didnt even know til last month that when yr cursor moves over certain areas of the box, a navigator/narrator voice spits out just where the hell yr next click will take you...still somewhat of a nuisance though the label is called skam...and oh yeah, wouldn't some of you pplz think that a good name for a Skam compilation/7"/12" series would be "Artists" like "Skam Artists"...cheap and cheezy...peace 1 tidewatergemfish np_jolly music_radio jolly

Kinda like the Designers Republic gibberish that Warp relies on? I can't understand why people think they're so hot; I'm all for innovative design, but DR doesn't seem to even consider function in the form v. funct debate. Oh, and Flash? If you wanna see the best flash site ever, check www.beigerecords.com. RR <<i thought the old skam site was gorgeous visually, but horrible from a usage point of view. the first time i visited it, i spent five minutes fumbling about and then decided it was a lost cause. i never went back again.>> hs --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

on 4/8/02 2:18 PM, Randall Roberts at Randall.Roberts@riverfronttimes.com scrawled:

quoted 6 lines Kinda like the Designers Republic gibberish that Warp relies on? I can't

> Kinda like the Designers Republic gibberish that Warp relies on? I can't > understand why people think they're so hot; I'm all for innovative design, but > DR doesn't seem to even consider function in the form v. funct debate. > Oh, and Flash? If you wanna see the best flash site ever, check > www.beigerecords.com. >

Have we run out of muscians to trash on this list? Graphic design and webdesign *should* be a bit superficial and surface-y.. they don't have that many demands on them compared to industrial design or architecture. How does function figure into a record sleeve other than if it is economical and efficient? The only failure in this department I have ever seen was those cursed metal cases for the chain reaction CD's that liked to snap in half the product they contained. As for web stuff, I *like* the interface on the warp site and as for the general artwork, layouts - they are ok. Much better than the many pale imitations out there at least they developed a style rather than bit one. Good example of the collective in fine form - the richard devine lipswitch cover. It was fucking brilliant - just a nice dense mass of several thousand lines of about three different colours, and tucked away in the corner a listing of the number of each colour. Interesting visually in it's own right, but it parallels his production.. when you think about how many damn samples he includes in some of his tracks and the order that comes out of them. Most electronic music label artwork is the equivelent of puffy covered airport novels. I liked the old scam site. I think the interface question boils down to are you trying to create a catalogue or a mini-space? Not all spaces are clearly defined by sineage.. some need to be explored. Take note that the scam guys didn't change their online shop.. no label would make the mail order section of their site difficult to find/use. :P my .08! ~g --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line Function figures into a record sleeve in a very simple

> Function figures into a record sleeve in a very simple

way, one that DR fails at

quoted 1 line nearly every time: What is the name of the band? What is

> nearly every time: What is the name of the band? What is

the name of the record?

quoted 1 line What songs are on the record? In what order? I can't tell

> What songs are on the record? In what order? I can't tell

you how many times

quoted 1 line I've fumbled through a DR sleeve a minute before I'm

> I've fumbled through a DR sleeve a minute before I'm

supposed to go on the air,

quoted 1 line painstakingly trying to determine song title.

> painstakingly trying to determine song title.

Examples please? I have had no problems so far deciphering their artwank. Surely the point of being a good DJ is to know what you're playing before you play it?

quoted 1 line You really believe that graphic design should be

> You really believe that graphic design should be

superficial? We disagree on

quoted 1 line this. I think a successful cover should have graphic depth

> this. I think a successful cover should have graphic depth

to it. Of course it

quoted 1 line can be full of whimsy or drama or whatnot, but, most

> can be full of whimsy or drama or whatnot, but, most

important, it must provide

quoted 1 line the information I'm looking for in a semi-legible manner.

> the information I'm looking for in a semi-legible manner.

Cover art should be indicative of what the artist wanted to be on the cover. Anything else is a bonus. Also I would have said that the DR are some of the best sleve designers, and they are certainly far from the least intelligible. Think of all of their Purple Warp sleeves, pure functionality, ditto Peel sessions, ditto windowlicker, brothomstates, plone, lfo, wap100, 10+ etc etc etc. Pure readability. cheerio georgewilliamson --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Greg Smith wrote: <<Have we run out of muscians to trash on this list? Graphic design and webdesign *should* be a bit superficial and surface-y.. they don't have that many demands on them compared to industrial design or architecture. How does function figure into a record sleeve other than if it is economical and efficient? Function figures into a record sleeve in a very simple way, one that DR fails at nearly every time: What is the name of the band? What is the name of the record? What songs are on the record? In what order? I can't tell you how many times I've fumbled through a DR sleeve a minute before I'm supposed to go on the air, painstakingly trying to determine song title. You really believe that graphic design should be superficial? We disagree on this. I think a successful cover should have graphic depth to it. Of course it can be full of whimsy or drama or whatnot, but, most important, it must provide the information I'm looking for in a semi-legible manner. RR np: Disco (Not Disco) 2. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

can you give a few ferinstances of completely illegible tDR sleeves? i really can't think of any. i mean, these are the guys who do the purple warp sleeves that simply list the artist and track titles. it doesn't get much more basic than that. i dunno. i've always thought that tDR's stuff was great in that the design element was very cool, but you still knew what you were listening to. i just can't recall missing a tracklisting anywhere. perfectly willing to be corrected and/or put in my place, alan! np:senor coconut:el coco baile On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Randall Roberts wrote:

quoted 13 lines Function figures into a record sleeve in a very simple way, one that DR fails at

> Function figures into a record sleeve in a very simple way, one that DR fails at > nearly every time: What is the name of the band? What is the name of the record? > What songs are on the record? In what order? I can't tell you how many times > I've fumbled through a DR sleeve a minute before I'm supposed to go on the air, > painstakingly trying to determine song title. > You really believe that graphic design should be superficial? We disagree on > this. I think a successful cover should have graphic depth to it. Of course it > can be full of whimsy or drama or whatnot, but, most important, it must provide > the information I'm looking for in a semi-legible manner. > > RR > np: Disco (Not Disco) 2. >

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In contrast to my previous email I'd say that (although I haven't seen their website yet!) a completely unuseable and quirky Skam website would make a lot of sense. Think about it - these are the guys releasing all those impossibly rare Mask and Smak series - it's like trainspotters heaven (hell?) Having a website that no one could figure out perfectly compliments the whole philosophy of fuck 'em all. If these guys gave a damn don't you think they'd release more copies of their best? How about some represses or a discog? Some contact info? Some less mysterious artist details? Doesn't seem like their interested in all that big record label type stuff. Then again, it's quite possible that I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about with this email so feel free to delete and ignore... Yowza! Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music > Digital Photography ----- Original Message ----- From: "vis-you" <mguest@isdn.net> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Re[2]: [idm] new skam website

quoted 1 line They've done some brilliant design, as well (Towa Tei), and if I didn't

> > They've done some brilliant design, as well (Towa Tei), and if I didn't

have

quoted 2 lines a radio show where I needed to find the information fairly quickly and

> > a radio show where I needed to find the information fairly quickly and > > accurately, this probably wouldn't peeve me as much as it does (and it

is a

quoted 1 line simple peeve, nothing more); but as a fan of design and the beauty of

> > simple peeve, nothing more); but as a fan of design and the beauty of

well

quoted 6 lines executed graphics, it's hard for me to stomach.

> > executed graphics, it's hard for me to stomach. > > The end result of good design is communication. If it fails to communicate > effectively, it fails as graphic design. > > Now artistry, a key element of good graphic design, can have different

rules

quoted 19 lines of play than straight design. So just about anything goes.

> of play than straight design. So just about anything goes. > > Something like a CD jacket should most often fall into the category of > Graphic Design; having both great artistry and the ability to communicate > effectively. > > or it fails in it's purpose... > > or something 8) > > jmho > > -matT > nashville.tn > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 Alan R Lucas wanted to know:

quoted 2 lines can you give a few ferinstances of completely illegible tDR sleeves? i

> can you give a few ferinstances of completely illegible tDR sleeves? i > really can't think of any.

Let's see... I recall one of the Autechre Peel sessions to appear to be blank until you turn the sleeve to the correct angle so you can read the coated print. Designed to be ignored I guess. Also the _Lily Of The Valley_ comp. Are they *purposely* making it so people flipping through cds in a shop will skip over it? What is the typeface, like 6 point? Plus the tracklisting is barely legible. This whole sleeve looks like it's an incomplete rough.

quoted 2 lines i dunno. i've always thought that tDR's stuff was great in that the design

> i dunno. i've always thought that tDR's stuff was great in that the design > element was very cool, but you still knew what you were listening to.

Aesthtics over functionality? This an *especially* bad idea when it comes to a various artists compilation. What's the point of a sleeve then? Maybe they should just wrap the disc in holiday wrapping paper then and be done with it. Or just have a completely blank cd, sans any print, in a clear jewel case. (I'm sure someone besides tDR has alrady done this...)

quoted 1 line i just can't recall missing a tracklisting anywhere.

> i just can't recall missing a tracklisting anywhere.

It's not a missing tracklisting that's the problem... .`-). christopher miller o o.' evil@cirex.net == ' --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I guess that's one thing that i've never really though of: flipping through things in a shop. Being that I order about 98% of my music online, I rarely have any idea as to what the cover's going to look like anyway. I'll concede that Ae's second Peel Session is not the easiest to discern, but it's still there in clear type (no pun intended) once you get to it. Other discs that people have mentioned, I've gone back and looked at again and found that I still don't really have a problem figuring out what I'm listening to. Now the Crunch disc on MAS is a different story, but that's not tDR... Later, Alan! np:Phonem:Ilisu (would anyone argue that the design work for Morr is superb?) On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Christopher Miller wrote:

quoted 40 lines On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 Alan R Lucas wanted to know:

> On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 Alan R Lucas wanted to know: > > > can you give a few ferinstances of completely illegible tDR sleeves? i > > really can't think of any. > > Let's see... I recall one of the Autechre Peel sessions to appear to be > blank until you turn the sleeve to the correct angle so you can read the > coated print. Designed to be ignored I guess. > > Also the _Lily Of The Valley_ comp. Are they *purposely* making it so > people flipping through cds in a shop will skip over it? What is the > typeface, like 6 point? Plus the tracklisting is barely legible. This > whole sleeve looks like it's an incomplete rough. > > > i dunno. i've always thought that tDR's stuff was great in that the design > > element was very cool, but you still knew what you were listening to. > > Aesthtics over functionality? This an *especially* bad idea when it comes > to a various artists compilation. > > What's the point of a sleeve then? Maybe they should just wrap the disc in > holiday wrapping paper then and be done with it. Or just have a completely > blank cd, sans any print, in a clear jewel case. (I'm sure someone besides > tDR has alrady done this...) > > > i just can't recall missing a tracklisting anywhere. > > It's not a missing tracklisting that's the problem... > > .`-). > christopher miller o o.' > evil@cirex.net == > ' > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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quoted 2 lines np:Phonem:Ilisu (would anyone argue that the design work for Morr is

>np:Phonem:Ilisu (would anyone argue that the design work for Morr is >superb?)

I certainly would not. I love the extremely clean design, and they make very good use of color. Outstanding... -- ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- omz beautamous loaf recordings http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i can't believe that this debate is even happening on a mail list whose population regularly listens to music that is indistinguishable from compact disc skipping+radio static+tap shoes in washing machine played at fastforward. please try to understand the function of abstraction in art. its not easy listening and its not neccessarily going to be easy reading either. asterprox

quoted 28 lines On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 Alan R Lucas wanted to know:

> On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 Alan R Lucas wanted to know: > > > can you give a few ferinstances of completely illegible tDR sleeves? i > > really can't think of any. > > Let's see... I recall one of the Autechre Peel sessions to appear to be > blank until you turn the sleeve to the correct angle so you can read the > coated print. Designed to be ignored I guess. > > Also the _Lily Of The Valley_ comp. Are they *purposely* making it so > people flipping through cds in a shop will skip over it? What is the > typeface, like 6 point? Plus the tracklisting is barely legible. This > whole sleeve looks like it's an incomplete rough. > > > i dunno. i've always thought that tDR's stuff was great in that the design > > element was very cool, but you still knew what you were listening to. > > Aesthtics over functionality? This an *especially* bad idea when it comes > to a various artists compilation. > > What's the point of a sleeve then? Maybe they should just wrap the disc in > holiday wrapping paper then and be done with it. Or just have a completely > blank cd, sans any print, in a clear jewel case. (I'm sure someone besides > tDR has alrady done this...) > > > i just can't recall missing a tracklisting anywhere. > > It's not a missing tracklisting that's the problem...

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At 07:25 PM 4/9/2002 +0000, you wrote:

quoted 8 lines i can't believe that this debate is even happening on

>i can't believe that this debate is even happening on >a mail list whose population regularly listens to >music that is indistinguishable from compact disc >skipping+radio static+tap shoes in washing >machine played at fastforward. please try to >understand the function of abstraction in art. its not >easy listening and its not neccessarily going to be >easy reading either.

The difference is that we're not looking to the music for information. We're listening to the music for enjoyment. The sleeve (which is NOT the main product we are purchasing) should supplement the music and offer information. We're looking to the sleeve for stuff about the music. If that's pretty pictures, cool. I don't think the argument has even come up that tDR does "shit graphics." They're all very visually interesting. We're talking about usability, which is something a record sleeve, or website, should have if it's to be effectively *used*. Perhaps skam is saying "fuck you, we don't need you using our website, we just want one... out there.. for.. users.. to.. uhh... use..." Since when has the subject of the aesthetics of art, or even the overall intention come into play? Are you reading the thread? For example, Autechre have been creating their own designs since pretty much lp5, and they want the covers to represent the music. Ironically, the titles for Chiastlic Slide (created by tDR) are nearly unreadable, whereas the titles for all the autechre releases after tDR have been, more or less, readable. If I were an artist who spent time creating track titles, I would hope that the user would be able to find those track titles. If there are no track titles, that makes sense. If I'm creating a compilation of artists, for the sake of introducing people to those artists on a name basis, doesn't it follow that the artists names should appear in some readable format on the sleeve -- the ONLY place that's readily available to describe the music? As much as we all enjoy the Internet, there are still plenty of people who listen to IDM who don't use the Internet regularly, if at all, and for them, the sleeve is the only place to get information about the artist. That's what the sleeve is for. If the sleeve is just a visual extension of the music, well that's fine. But it doesn't tell anyone anything. It's just pretty to look at. But that topic's never come up in the actual discussion. We're not talking about sleeves as art, we're talking about sleeves as usable objects for describing the music contained within the sleeves. Derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- with lather thingy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i can't believe that this debate is even happening on a mail list whose population regularly listens to music that is indistinguishable from compact disc skipping+radio static+tap shoes in washing machine played at fastforward. please try to understand the function of abstraction in art. its not easy listening and its not neccessarily going to be easy reading either. asterprox

quoted 28 lines On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 Alan R Lucas wanted to know:

> On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 Alan R Lucas wanted to know: > > > can you give a few ferinstances of completely illegible tDR sleeves? i > > really can't think of any. > > Let's see... I recall one of the Autechre Peel sessions to appear to be > blank until you turn the sleeve to the correct angle so you can read the > coated print. Designed to be ignored I guess. > > Also the _Lily Of The Valley_ comp. Are they *purposely* making it so > people flipping through cds in a shop will skip over it? What is the > typeface, like 6 point? Plus the tracklisting is barely legible. This > whole sleeve looks like it's an incomplete rough. > > > i dunno. i've always thought that tDR's stuff was great in that the design > > element was very cool, but you still knew what you were listening to. > > Aesthtics over functionality? This an *especially* bad idea when it comes > to a various artists compilation. > > What's the point of a sleeve then? Maybe they should just wrap the disc in > holiday wrapping paper then and be done with it. Or just have a completely > blank cd, sans any print, in a clear jewel case. (I'm sure someone besides > tDR has alrady done this...) > > > i just can't recall missing a tracklisting anywhere. > > It's not a missing tracklisting that's the problem...

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i can't believe that this debate is even happening on a mail list whose population regularly listens to music that is indistinguishable from compact disc skipping+radio static+tap shoes in washing machine played at fastforward. please try to understand the function of abstraction in art. its not easy listening and its not neccessarily going to be easy reading either. asterprox

quoted 29 lines On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 Alan R Lucas wanted to know:

> On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 Alan R Lucas wanted to know: > > > can you give a few ferinstances of completely illegible tDR sleeves? i > > really can't think of any. > > Let's see... I recall one of the Autechre Peel sessions to appear to be > blank until you turn the sleeve to the correct angle so you can read the > coated print. Designed to be ignored I guess. > > Also the _Lily Of The Valley_ comp. Are they *purposely* making it so > people flipping through cds in a shop will skip over it? What is the > typeface, like 6 point? Plus the tracklisting is barely legible. This > whole sleeve looks like it's an incomplete rough. > > > i dunno. i've always thought that tDR's stuff was great in that the design > > element was very cool, but you still knew what you were listening to. > > Aesthtics over functionality? This an *especially* bad idea when it comes > to a various artists compilation. > > What's the point of a sleeve then? Maybe they should just wrap the disc in > holiday wrapping paper then and be done with it. Or just have a completely > blank cd, sans any print, in a clear jewel case. (I'm sure someone besides > tDR has alrady done this...) > > > i just can't recall missing a tracklisting anywhere. > > It's not a missing tracklisting that's the problem... >

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quoted 8 lines i can't believe that this debate is even happening on

>i can't believe that this debate is even happening on >a mail list whose population regularly listens to >music that is indistinguishable from compact disc >skipping+radio static+tap shoes in washing >machine played at fastforward. please try to >understand the function of abstraction in art. its not >easy listening and its not neccessarily going to be >easy reading either.

WERD! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

DR doesn't do all the Warp releases; they've just done a few. The one that pisses me off the most is the three volume tenth anniversary series -- classics, influences and remixes (especially the remixes). Also: Funkstoring, Additional Productions. Schematic's Ischemic Folks. All suffer from the same problem: the most useful information is totally buried and nearly illegible. They've done some brilliant design, as well (Towa Tei), and if I didn't have a radio show where I needed to find the information fairly quickly and accurately, this probably wouldn't peeve me as much as it does (and it is a simple peeve, nothing more); but as a fan of design and the beauty of well executed graphics, it's hard for me to stomach. RR np: In the Beginning There Was Rhythm ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: Re: [idm] new skam website Author: alan r lucas <alucas@telerama.com> Date: 4/9/02 11:42 AM can you give a few ferinstances of completely illegible tDR sleeves? i really can't think of any. i mean, these are the guys who do the purple warp sleeves that simply list the artist and track titles. it doesn't get much more basic than that. i dunno. i've always thought that tDR's stuff was great in that the design element was very cool, but you still knew what you were listening to. i just can't recall missing a tracklisting anywhere. perfectly willing to be corrected and/or put in my place, alan! np:senor coconut:el coco baile --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines They've done some brilliant design, as well (Towa Tei), and if I didn't have

> They've done some brilliant design, as well (Towa Tei), and if I didn't have > a radio show where I needed to find the information fairly quickly and > accurately, this probably wouldn't peeve me as much as it does (and it is a > simple peeve, nothing more); but as a fan of design and the beauty of well > executed graphics, it's hard for me to stomach.

The end result of good design is communication. If it fails to communicate effectively, it fails as graphic design. Now artistry, a key element of good graphic design, can have different rules of play than straight design. So just about anything goes. Something like a CD jacket should most often fall into the category of Graphic Design; having both great artistry and the ability to communicate effectively. or it fails in it's purpose... or something 8) jmho -matT nashville.tn --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Randall Roberts wrote:

quoted 11 lines George Williamson wrote:

> George Williamson wrote: > > <Surely the point of being a good DJ is to know what you're > playing before you play it?> > > Wrong. I don't know song titles on half of my instrumental records. And I'd > hazard a guess that it'd be tough for you to match titles with the actual music, > as well. It's got nothing to do with being a good DJ. Which isn't to say I'm a > good DJ -- though I do make every effort to provide accurate information so > listeners can track down the music for themselves. >

i hardly ever know what i'm going to play for a given set/broadcast/ whatever until i get to the track right before it. i've found that i do a lot better if i just know my music well in general and go with the flow. i tend to remember things like "track 7 has that bleepy sound that my pal jon hates but i really like, and matches with that other track, track 4 on the cd with the brown cover that is about *here* in my cd suitcase..." and so on. it helps to have a case that is easy to distinguish from others in my suitcase, but other than that, i care little about art or whatever. -rachel (aka dj pie) piesarenice.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 8 lines The difference is that we're not looking to the music for

> > The difference is that we're not looking to the music for > information. We're listening to the music for enjoyment. The sleeve > (which is NOT the main product we are purchasing) should > supplement the > music and offer information. We're looking to the sleeve for > stuff about > the music.

I'm looking to the cover for enjoyment. I only reason I buy the actual product is for the album art. Album art is a medium all it's own. Remember the hubbub artists brought up when cds came out? "There isn't enough room to do proper cover art!" If you think that the album art is a footnote to the artists work, I think you are cheating yourself. I like challenging/unique/weird/minimal/overly-complex artwork on my cds. What I do dislike is oversimplified cover with no liner notes or bonus writings/pictures/etc... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Ditto here. I cram the box with stuff I like that might maybe seem to make sense, or at least have the potential to make sense. Then I proceed to fuck it all up live. Seldom, if ever, do I have any inkling of the specifics of what I'm gonna play, nor do I have the foggiest idea of what the tracks are called. Most important, knowing what tracks are titled has absolutely nothing to do with whether a DJ's any good. Most of my favorite tracks I couldn't even tell you their titles. I just know it's the second cut on the b-side of that one 12". RR aka Li'l Edit. DJ Pie wrote: <<i hardly ever know what i'm going to play for a given set/broadcast/ whatever until i get to the track right before it. i've found that i do a lot better if i just know my music well in general and go with the flow. i tend to remember things like "track 7 has that bleepy sound that my pal jon hates but i really like, and matches with that other track, track 4 on the cd with the brown cover that is about *here* in my cd suitcase..." and so on. it helps to have a case that is easy to distinguish from others in my suitcase, but other than that, i care little about art or whatever. -rachel (aka dj pie) piesarenice.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

if you are dealing with a style of music that is primarily about abstraction and originality and obfuscation of source materials, it is a little unrealistic to expect anything other than that from the visual artwork that accompanies the sound artwork. this is not to say that obfuscated cover art should be mandatory, but it's the perogative of the artist (or label) to obfuscate if they so desire. idm is a selfish genre. it's self-made music by self-actuated musicians, maybe the artist doesn't care if you know what track 3 is titled or who is in the group or what speed the 12" is supposed to be played at. maybe the artist wants you to make your own judgements about the sound on the recording. maybe skam records likes to tweak the trainspotters just a little bit with their inscrutable website. maybe they sit around the office giggling at the idm list archives when people flip out over their limited releases with no cover art. maybe then they throw a couple more copies up on ebay and rake in a quick 50 quid to spend on schwaggy manchester weed. asterprox --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 06:16 PM 4/9/2002 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 5 lines I'm looking to the cover for enjoyment.

>I'm looking to the cover for enjoyment. > >I only reason I buy the actual product is for the album art. Album art >is a medium all it's own. Remember the hubbub artists brought up when >cds came out? "There isn't enough room to do proper cover art!"

I usually purchase cd's or records to support the artist, not for cover art, but it is a nice bonus. Granted, most of the cover art prior to 1970 was pretty crap...

quoted 2 lines If you think that the album art is a footnote to the artists work, I

>If you think that the album art is a footnote to the artists work, I >think you are cheating yourself.

So, to you, the music is free, but the 5x5 piece of colored paper is work 15 dollars?

quoted 2 lines I like challenging/unique/weird/minimal/overly-complex artwork on my

>I like challenging/unique/weird/minimal/overly-complex artwork on my >cds.

I like unique and challenging artwork too. I don't like to not know what I'm listening to, though.

quoted 2 lines What I do dislike is oversimplified cover with no liner notes or

>What I do dislike is oversimplified cover with no liner notes or >bonus writings/pictures/etc...

It's sort of a gyp, isn't it? You paid all this money and all you get is a piece of cardboard with some scribbles on it. Sure, you can break out the microscope to find out that those scribbles are actually the track titles as one long line in 1/2 point font verdana, but are you gonna do that every time you want to read the track titles? Or you spent all this money on a compilation that has some nifty artwork, only to take it home and realize that you have to wrack your brains and get your eyes all screwed up in order to find out what artists your listening to. "Let's see, this is track, uhh, 5, well, uhh, let's count out, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ok, five, now I gotta follow this across, oh there's some colors in... ah!! these arrows made me lose my place!" ------- eggytoast.com ------- with lather thingy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

You are right . I'm full of crap. Crazy fonts don't bother me though. I like TDR and the skam site. that's all... (wow I'd admited to saying something dumb on the internet) I usually purchase cd's or records to support the artist, not for cover art, but it is a nice bonus

asterprox@attbi.com wrote:

quoted 8 lines i can't believe that this debate is even happening on

> i can't believe that this debate is even happening on > a mail list whose population regularly listens to > music that is indistinguishable from compact disc > skipping+radio static+tap shoes in washing > machine played at fastforward. please try to > understand the function of abstraction in art. its not > easy listening and its not neccessarily going to be > easy reading either.

you said it man !! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, omz wrote:

quoted 6 lines np:Phonem:Ilisu (would anyone argue that the design work for Morr is

> >np:Phonem:Ilisu (would anyone argue that the design work for Morr is > >superb?) > > I certainly would not. I love the extremely clean design, and they > make very good use of color. Outstanding... >

morr is one of my favorite labels, not only for there neat covers but also for some great records that come out of there, notably (for me) "panic amigo" piano magic remixed 12" and "putting the morr back in morrissey" morr music comp. ahh if only the notwist released morr (sorry i had to) tracks similar to the one on that comp. -- carcus http://www.carcus.net Band a Minute Quote of the day: Crain Stupid rocket houses. Now we'll never make it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org