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[idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2

18 messages · 10 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: blatant promotional refuse... · dissecting windowlicker track #2
2001-08-28 21:44Jarmo Niinisalo [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
├─ 2001-08-28 21:55Brian MacDonald Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
│ └─ 2001-08-28 22:21stacey van buskirk Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
├─ 2001-08-29 02:06Nintari Man Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
└─ 2001-08-30 10:37Ben Kirkley Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
2001-08-28 22:25Jesse McCoppin RE: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
2001-08-29 02:30. m e . Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
2001-08-29 06:35Jesse McCoppin RE: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
└─ 2001-08-29 19:12logrey beam [idm] blatant promotional refuse...
2001-08-29 14:13Jarmo Niinisalo Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
2001-08-29 14:36Anig Browl Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
├─ 2001-08-29 18:37Kent williams Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
└─ 2001-08-29 18:41Brian MacDonald Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
2001-08-29 14:41Anig Browl Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
2001-08-29 18:47Jesse McCoppin RE: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
2001-08-29 22:22Anig Browl Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
2001-08-30 11:54Ben Kirkley Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
2001-08-30 12:07Jarmo Niinisalo Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
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2001-08-28 21:44Jarmo NiinisaloApologies if this is old news, I'm on digest mode.. Ran into an interesting piece of info
From:
Jarmo Niinisalo
To:
Date:
Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:44:47 +0300
Subject:
[idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <3B8C10CF.FE56252C@iki.fi>
Apologies if this is old news, I'm on digest mode.. Ran into an interesting piece of info on the Warp messageboard about track 2 (the long formula) on Aphex Twin's Windowlicker: it seems there are several images encoded into the song that can be seen with a spectogram. Screenshots + instructions to reproduce the images can be seen at http://chaos.yerbox.org/face/ I fiddled around with a spectrogram program that allowed the usage of logarithmic scale (the pics on the above site use linear scale, I think) and got out a bit better image which actually looks quite a lot like RDJ himself (complete with the patented grin). The pic can be seen at http://www.iki.fi/jjn/aphex.gif Somebody speculated a while ago that the formula looked like it could be used in Fast Fourier Transformation, and I guess he was right.. pretty amazing stuff. Explains a lot about that track, too - it's not meant to be listened, it's meant to be watched :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-28 21:55Brian MacDonaldThat GIF is easily the most disturbing thing I've seen today. Anyway... The whole subject
From:
Brian MacDonald
To:
Date:
Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:55:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
Reply to:
[idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010828144616.29125A-100000@falco.kuci.uci.edu>
That GIF is easily the most disturbing thing I've seen today. Anyway... The whole subject of translating digital pics to digital music is pretty damn fascinating to me, so here's to hoping this thread continues well here... There's a Mac called K Metasynth or something which does just that. You load a picture, and generates a wash of eerie synth noises based on a scan from left to right of the picture - using, I presume, value, hue, saturation, etc. to alter the "notes". Also, FruityLoops 3 (or maybe version before) has a BeepMap plugin that allows you to do the same.. it's a more compact, easier-to-use interface. My only problem with either program is that there's not a huge variety in the range of sounds that a *wide* variety of pictures can produce. It's usually the generally same eerie synth ambience I want a program that will produce a very different sound from scanning, say, a family photo... than something that's a picture of two kangaroos mating...and even different from a cartoon pic, etc. I'd hope these sounds wouldn't be tied to cultural restraints (i.e. no problem with Da Funk, but I wouldn't want a nice sleazy downtempo groove to emit from scanning a porn pic, for instance). I'd be hoping for something more wild and generative, or something that didn't do a simple left-to-right traversal of a picture... Anyone want to give me some free time to make such a program? No, I don't want to be fired from my job. :) ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> ======================================================================= On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Jarmo Niinisalo wrote:
quoted 27 lines Apologies if this is old news, I'm on digest mode..> Apologies if this is old news, I'm on digest mode.. > > Ran into an interesting piece of info on the Warp messageboard about > track 2 (the long formula) on Aphex Twin's Windowlicker: it seems there > are several images encoded into the song that can be seen with a > spectogram. Screenshots + instructions to reproduce the images can be > seen at > > http://chaos.yerbox.org/face/ > > I fiddled around with a spectrogram program that allowed the usage of > logarithmic scale (the pics on the above site use linear scale, I think) > and got out a bit better image which actually looks quite a lot like RDJ > himself (complete with the patented grin). The pic can be seen at > > http://www.iki.fi/jjn/aphex.gif > > Somebody speculated a while ago that the formula looked like it could be > used in Fast Fourier Transformation, and I guess he was right.. pretty > amazing stuff. Explains a lot about that track, too - it's not meant to > be listened, it's meant to be watched :) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2001-08-28 22:21stacey van buskirk> > > From: Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:55:46 -0700 (PDT
From:
stacey van buskirk
To:
Date:
Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:21:57 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <B7B16793.930E%stace@girlie8.tv>
quoted 21 lines From: Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org>> > > From: Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:55:46 -0700 (PDT) > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2 > > > > That GIF is easily the most disturbing thing I've seen today. > > Anyway... > The whole subject of translating digital pics to digital music is pretty > damn fascinating to me, so here's to hoping this thread continues > well here... > > There's a Mac called K Metasynth or something which does just that. You > load a picture, and generates a wash of eerie synth noises based on a scan > from left to right of the picture - using, I presume, value, hue, > saturation, etc. to alter the "notes". >
True, it¹s called MetaSynth and it¹s put out by U&I Software. <http://www.uisoftware.com> Eric Wenger is the genius behind it...as well as Videodelic, Artmatic Pro & Bryce. We hosted him at echolocation recently, so I also know that Windowlicker was created using MetaSynth, as well as Scanner¹s last album. blip, girLie ..... . ...... .. ......... ................ s t a c e y v a n b u s k i r k my world: <http://www.echolocation.fm> <http://www.girlie8.tv> <http://www.eyephunk.com> . ....... ......... .. ............... ....
2001-08-29 02:06Nintari ManSee Coagula and or Metasynth. It's not hard to do. :) http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/pr
From:
Nintari Man
To:
Jarmo Niinisalo
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:06:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
Reply to:
[idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108282201080.5840-100000@holland.deathhouse.net>
See Coagula and or Metasynth. It's not hard to do. :) http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/productdetail.aspx?prodno=78775 Look closely. --nm On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Jarmo Niinisalo wrote:
quoted 31 lines Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:44:47 +0300> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:44:47 +0300 > From: Jarmo Niinisalo <jjn@iki.fi> > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2 > > Apologies if this is old news, I'm on digest mode.. > > Ran into an interesting piece of info on the Warp messageboard about > track 2 (the long formula) on Aphex Twin's Windowlicker: it seems there > are several images encoded into the song that can be seen with a > spectogram. Screenshots + instructions to reproduce the images can be > seen at > > http://chaos.yerbox.org/face/ > > I fiddled around with a spectrogram program that allowed the usage of > logarithmic scale (the pics on the above site use linear scale, I think) > and got out a bit better image which actually looks quite a lot like RDJ > himself (complete with the patented grin). The pic can be seen at > > http://www.iki.fi/jjn/aphex.gif > > Somebody speculated a while ago that the formula looked like it could be > used in Fast Fourier Transformation, and I guess he was right.. pretty > amazing stuff. Explains a lot about that track, too - it's not meant to > be listened, it's meant to be watched :) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2001-08-30 10:37Ben KirkleyI download that Spectrogram program that was used to show the 2nd face (http://www.iki.fi/
From:
Ben Kirkley
To:
Jarmo Niinisalo , idm
Date:
Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:37:41 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
Reply to:
[idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <B7B3D605.2B92%ben.kirkley@displaypost.co.uk>
I download that Spectrogram program that was used to show the 2nd face (http://www.iki.fi/jjn/aphex.gif), but I don't get any result. In fact I don't get any pretty pictures at all. Can anyone tell me what to do to get this to work (settings etc). Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-28 22:25Jesse McCoppinI threw a floppy disk containing a MetaSynth beta at Richard when he played the Ogden in D
From:
Jesse McCoppin
To:
IDM LIST (E-mail)
Date:
Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:25:56 -0600
Subject:
RE: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <E66E626CD14CD511982C00C00D00C60B0DE129@admin.bvsd.k12.co.us>
I threw a floppy disk containing a MetaSynth beta at Richard when he played the Ogden in Denver, 1997. Wonder if he already knew about it before then.
quoted 49 lines ----------> ---------- > From: stacey van buskirk > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 4:21 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2 > > > > > > > From: Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> > > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:55:46 -0700 (PDT) > > To: idm@hyperreal.org > > Subject: Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2 > > > > > > > > That GIF is easily the most disturbing thing I've seen today. > > > > Anyway... > > The whole subject of translating digital pics to digital music is pretty > > damn fascinating to me, so here's to hoping this thread continues > > well here... > > > > There's a Mac called K Metasynth or something which does just that. You > > load a picture, and generates a wash of eerie synth noises based on a > scan > > from left to right of the picture - using, I presume, value, hue, > > saturation, etc. to alter the "notes". > > > > True, it1s called MetaSynth and it1s put out by U&I Software. > <http://www.uisoftware.com> > > Eric Wenger is the genius behind it...as well as Videodelic, Artmatic Pro > & > Bryce. We hosted him at echolocation recently, so I also know that > Windowlicker was created using MetaSynth, as well as Scanner1s last album. > > blip, > girLie > > ..... . ...... .. ......... ................ > s t a c e y v a n b u s k i r k > my world: > <http://www.echolocation.fm> > <http://www.girlie8.tv> > <http://www.eyephunk.com> > . ....... ......... .. ............... .... > >
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2001-08-29 02:30. m e .Check out the OR SOME COMPUTER MUSIC 2 CD. Atau Tanaka and Eric Wenger composed a piece ba
From:
. m e .
To:
Date:
Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:30:45 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <F1165ltmDtREtPQh0Lc0000fb68@hotmail.com>
Check out the OR SOME COMPUTER MUSIC 2 CD. Atau Tanaka and Eric Wenger composed a piece based on Metasynth[ed] photographs taken by Nobuyoshi Araki. I'm not very fond of the piece, because it seems to thrive on the ostensible aspects of Araki's work, but it's an interesting example, none the less. M...
quoted 54 lines From: Nintari Man <nintarispam@nintari.com>>From: Nintari Man <nintarispam@nintari.com> >To: Jarmo Niinisalo <jjn@iki.fi> >CC: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2 >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:06:03 -0400 (EDT) > > >See Coagula and or Metasynth. It's not hard to do. :) > >http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/productdetail.aspx?prodno=78775 > >Look closely. > >--nm > >On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Jarmo Niinisalo wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:44:47 +0300 > > From: Jarmo Niinisalo <jjn@iki.fi> > > To: idm@hyperreal.org > > Subject: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2 > > > > Apologies if this is old news, I'm on digest mode.. > > > > Ran into an interesting piece of info on the Warp messageboard about > > track 2 (the long formula) on Aphex Twin's Windowlicker: it seems there > > are several images encoded into the song that can be seen with a > > spectogram. Screenshots + instructions to reproduce the images can be > > seen at > > > > http://chaos.yerbox.org/face/ > > > > I fiddled around with a spectrogram program that allowed the usage of > > logarithmic scale (the pics on the above site use linear scale, I think) > > and got out a bit better image which actually looks quite a lot like RDJ > > himself (complete with the patented grin). The pic can be seen at > > > > http://www.iki.fi/jjn/aphex.gif > > > > Somebody speculated a while ago that the formula looked like it could be > > used in Fast Fourier Transformation, and I guess he was right.. pretty > > amazing stuff. Explains a lot about that track, too - it's not meant to > > be listened, it's meant to be watched :) > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2001-08-29 06:35Jesse McCoppinNice,,,,,but lets hear your song and see if it's good :) > ---------- > From: Nintari Man
From:
Jesse McCoppin
To:
'Nintari Man' , IDM LIST (E-mail)
Date:
Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:35:39 -0600
Subject:
RE: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <E66E626CD14CD511982C00C00D00C60B0DE12A@admin.bvsd.k12.co.us>
Nice,,,,,but lets hear your song and see if it's good :)
quoted 56 lines ----------> ---------- > From: Nintari Man > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:06 PM > To: Jarmo Niinisalo > Cc: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2 > > > See Coagula and or Metasynth. It's not hard to do. :) > > http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/productdetail.aspx?prodno=78775 > > Look closely. > > --nm > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Jarmo Niinisalo wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:44:47 +0300 > > From: Jarmo Niinisalo <jjn@iki.fi> > > To: idm@hyperreal.org > > Subject: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2 > > > > Apologies if this is old news, I'm on digest mode.. > > > > Ran into an interesting piece of info on the Warp messageboard about > > track 2 (the long formula) on Aphex Twin's Windowlicker: it seems there > > are several images encoded into the song that can be seen with a > > spectogram. Screenshots + instructions to reproduce the images can be > > seen at > > > > http://chaos.yerbox.org/face/ > > > > I fiddled around with a spectrogram program that allowed the usage of > > logarithmic scale (the pics on the above site use linear scale, I think) > > and got out a bit better image which actually looks quite a lot like RDJ > > himself (complete with the patented grin). The pic can be seen at > > > > http://www.iki.fi/jjn/aphex.gif > > > > Somebody speculated a while ago that the formula looked like it could be > > used in Fast Fourier Transformation, and I guess he was right.. pretty > > amazing stuff. Explains a lot about that track, too - it's not meant to > > be listened, it's meant to be watched :) > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2001-08-29 19:12logrey beamheyhey.. everyone else seemed to be doing it, so here's a new track of myne... lemme kno w
From:
logrey beam
To:
Date:
Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:12:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
[idm] blatant promotional refuse...
Reply to:
RE: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <20010829191249.8067.qmail@web4305.mail.yahoo.com>
heyhey.. everyone else seemed to be doing it, so here's a new track of myne... lemme kno whatcha all think, as im new to this whole (idm) world.... www.soundmangle.com/mp3s/kansyr.mp3 logreybeam == lgb == logreybeam ( { arg synth; var x, a; x = 1.0.rand; a = MouseY.kr(3.4, 3.99); f = MouseX.kr(100,10000,'exponential'); LPF.ar( Sequencer.ar( { x = a.poll * x * (1.0 - x); }, Impulse.ar(f) ) - 0.72, f ); }.scope(0.2); ) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-29 14:13Jarmo NiinisaloNintari Man wrote: > See Coagula and or Metasynth. It's not hard to do. :) It's definitely
From:
Jarmo Niinisalo
To:
Date:
Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:13:28 +0300
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <3B8CF888.FED957BC@iki.fi>
Nintari Man wrote:
quoted 1 line See Coagula and or Metasynth. It's not hard to do. :)> See Coagula and or Metasynth. It's not hard to do. :)
It's definitely much easier than I originally thought it would be - I've been busy with Coagula all day encoding all sorts of stuff. I also found another encoded bit that explains yet one weird track name: Plaid's "3recurring" on Rest Proof Clockwork has a continuous stream of threes (similar to the ones on the cover of Not For Threes) encoded into it. Picture can be found at http://www.iki.fi/jjn/plaid.gif It seems these Metasynth/Coagula -created "audio pictures" were all the rave in 1999 (both Windowlicker & Rest Proof Clockwork were released in 1999). Does anyone else know of any more examples besides the ones already mentioned? -- JarmoNiinisalo, http://www.iki.fi/jjn/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-29 14:36Anig BrowlFrom: Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> > There's a Mac called K Metasynth or something wh
From:
Anig Browl
To:
IDM List
Date:
Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:36:51 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <013901c130b7$43060160$7ab8869f@pauls>
From: Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org>
quoted 4 lines There's a Mac called K Metasynth or something which does just that. You> There's a Mac called K Metasynth or something which does just that. You > load a picture, and generates a wash of eerie synth noises based on a scan > from left to right of the picture - using, I presume, value, hue, > saturation, etc. to alter the "notes".
It's just 'Metasynth'. You can also get Coagula for the PC, a shareware tool which is available from hem.passagen.se/rasmuse I think. This does the same basic thing as MS although it's slightly more limited. With both pieces of software you can limit the frequency range of the output, or overlay graphic filters across it which will break it into a chromatic scale, apply 'brushes' to paint echos and stuff like that.
quoted 3 lines My only problem with either program is that there's not a huge variety in> My only problem with either program is that there's not a huge variety in > the range of sounds that a *wide* variety of pictures can produce. It's > usually the generally same eerie synth ambience
Well you are going to always get that 'head in a microwave' additive sound. And dumping photos of different subjects is not going to produce much difference - one really bizarre sound which is different from the last really bizarre sound. If you want to get into this, it's worth spending some time making fractal/geometric images and trying those so you can get a feel for how the sound texture changes. It's quite a powerful way to make sound, but not an easy one. Of course, since it's basically an inverted spectrogram (image -> sound), it's very worthwhile to run a good spectrogram program and study what is actually happening when you play with synths and effects. You'd be surprised at how many shapes and patterns pop up in the spectrogram window from playing about. When i'm bored I like to load up weird nord modular patches and stare at the results while I tweak knobs.
quoted 3 lines I want a program that will produce a very different sound from scanning,> I want a program that will produce a very different sound from scanning, > say, a family photo... than something that's a picture of two kangaroos > mating...and even different from a cartoon pic, etc.
And people say I'm weird...you might get some more unique results from fiddling with images in Photoshop or the like before reconstructing them as audio. But for something that's linked to the characteristics/style of the picutre (rather than the subject, which is irrelevant really)...hmm, the only thing I can think of is something called the Fractal Transform, which is an obscure method of compressing an image file down to *ridiculously* small sizes with very little loss of quality (after which you can also scale the image up or down to any size with almost no visible difference - no pixellation etc.). It's patented and is used mostly for massive image databases. Ever seen one of those fractals programs that draws ferns? That was invented by a guy called Barnsley and this is basically the same thing from the same guy, it turns the image into a fractal formula that fits into a few K. Anyway there's probably scope for doing some radically different audio transformations by monkeying with the math, but until the patent expires (how long do they last, does anyone know?) it's off-limits.
quoted 3 lines I'd hope these sounds wouldn't be tied to cultural restraints (i.e.> I'd hope these sounds wouldn't be tied to cultural restraints (i.e. > no problem with Da Funk, but I wouldn't want a nice sleazy downtempo > groove to emit from scanning a porn pic, for instance).
Within the limits of the current technology, the only way to get groove is by using patterns or very simple images. If you have a PC and download Coagula, try the 'bubbles.bmp' Windows wallpaper for 'Aphex Twin Visits the Circus'. For something completely different, some people on IDM-making were recently discussing the graphic manipulation tools which are available to users of Max. There is of course no reason that you couldn't go in the opposite direction with suitable software, and use the movement parameters from an existing 3d animation to churn out MIDI controller information. Finally, delta functions are used quite a lot in DSP for FFTs and the like. My bet is that it was cut and pasted from the Metasynth help file. I like the track for listening as well as looking though :-) Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-29 18:37Kent williamsThe big problem with any of these picture to audio convertors is that they're limited to c
From:
Kent williams
To:
Anig Browl
Cc:
IDM List
Date:
Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:37:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.1010829132439.27122B-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
The big problem with any of these picture to audio convertors is that they're limited to cartesian frequency VS amplitude plots. It's similar to the problems you run into with compressing image data -- a row/column traversal doesn't match the 'importance' weight of a picture. A prof of mine was a compression head and had some success with improving image coherence by using hilbert space-filling curves to traverse an image's pixels. That seems to improve the chance of exploiting neighbor-similarity. What I would do in a Coagula-type program to make it reflect a picture's composition I'm not sure, but some alternative mappings could be interesting as a way to give different results from the same image. I haven't seen anything like this on PC yet, but there's also some cool programs for SGI and other Unix boxes that allow you to diddle the sonogram in interesting ways, producing spectral shifts and compressions. If I'm not mistaken, you can use Coagula to build sonogram images from audio files too. It's interesting to take a sonogram of a sound and manipulate it in a photo editor, then re-render it. Simple transformations produce very interesting results. Horizontal stretching == time expansion, and pallette manipulations can screw up a sound radically. You can also take two sonograms, and do a visual crossfade of them to get a spectral sound morph. What fun. Too bad I can't blow off work for the rest of the day and go play with this stuff... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-29 18:41Brian MacDonald<WARNING: HIGH GEEK FACTOR> Great insight, Anig.. many thanks. Again, it's a tricky thing
From:
Brian MacDonald
To:
IDM List
Date:
Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:41:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010829112556.9207A-100000@falco.kuci.uci.edu>
<WARNING: HIGH GEEK FACTOR> Great insight, Anig.. many thanks. Again, it's a tricky thing to try force something that's inherently multi-dimensional (graphics -- at least 2 dimensions) into something that's basically one-dimensional (audio -- on a per track basis) and back again. You have to put a *lot* of work into a tool that will create interesting and varied results converting from one direction and back the other way again -- no doubt. Though I'm not really interested in sound that's coming just *purely* from a graphic source. I was thinking more along the lines of certain graphic factors and traversals triggering source samples, or possibly seeding an array of preconstructed pieces... rhythmic, moody, chaotic, whatever. Certain factors in the graphics being: * Color (redness, greenness, blueness, hue, saturation, etc.) * Edges/Bluriness * Overall color distribution * Clusters of similar graphic regions and locations thereof All these could simply be triggers/seeders of already pregenerated sound somehow. Maybe just put a point on some 2-dimensional color photo file and have it run around the bits, and do things with that... just as an example. Anyway, maybe this typing time is better spent coding up such a little gadget.... but just some food for thought on the graphics<-->sound thread. </WARNING: HIGH GEEK FACTOR> ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-29 14:41Anig BrowlFrom: . m e . <runawayslinky@hotmail.com> > Check out the OR SOME COMPUTER MUSIC 2 CD. Ata
From:
Anig Browl
To:
IDM List
Date:
Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:41:51 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <013a01c130b7$45591920$7ab8869f@pauls>
From: . m e . <runawayslinky@hotmail.com>
quoted 5 lines Check out the OR SOME COMPUTER MUSIC 2 CD. Atau Tanaka and Eric Wenger> Check out the OR SOME COMPUTER MUSIC 2 CD. Atau Tanaka and Eric Wenger > composed a piece based on Metasynth[ed] photographs taken by Nobuyoshi > Araki. I'm not very fond of the piece, because it seems to thrive on the > ostensible aspects of Araki's work, but it's an interesting example, none > the less.
I'm not sure how much you can 'compose' with additive synthesis...you might as well just put a bunch of additive noises into a sampler and play about with normal filters etc. Like other forms of synthesis, it makes interesting sounds but by themselves these are not *that* musically interesting to listen to. OTOH it makes for fantastic source material when you start feeding it into vocoders and stuff like that. Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-29 18:47Jesse McCoppinblah blah blah blah blah > ---------- > From: Kent williams > Sent: Wednesday, August 29,
From:
Jesse McCoppin
To:
IDM LIST (E-mail)
Date:
Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:47:47 -0600
Subject:
RE: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <E66E626CD14CD511982C00C00D00C60B0DE134@admin.bvsd.k12.co.us>
blah blah blah blah blah
quoted 51 lines ----------> ---------- > From: Kent williams > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:37 PM > To: Anig Browl > Cc: IDM List > Subject: Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2 > > The big problem with any of these picture to audio convertors is that > they're limited to cartesian frequency VS amplitude plots. It's similar > to the problems you run into with compressing image data -- a row/column > traversal doesn't match the 'importance' weight of a picture. > > A prof of mine was a compression head and had some success with improving > image coherence by using hilbert space-filling curves to traverse an > image's > pixels. That seems to improve the chance of exploiting > neighbor-similarity. > > What I would do in a Coagula-type program to make it reflect a picture's > composition I'm not sure, but some alternative mappings could be > interesting > as a way to give different results from the same image. > > I haven't seen anything like this on PC yet, but there's also some cool > programs for SGI and other Unix boxes that allow you to diddle the > sonogram > in interesting ways, producing spectral shifts and compressions. > > If I'm not mistaken, you can use Coagula to build sonogram images from > audio files too. It's interesting to take a sonogram of a sound and > manipulate > it in a photo editor, then re-render it. Simple transformations produce > very interesting results. Horizontal stretching == time expansion, and > pallette > manipulations can screw up a sound radically. You can also take two > sonograms, > and do a visual crossfade of them to get a spectral sound morph. > > What fun. Too bad I can't blow off work for the rest of the day and go > play > with this stuff... > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2001-08-29 22:22Anig BrowlFrom: Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> > <WARNING: HIGH GEEK FACTOR> :-) > Again, it's a
From:
Anig Browl
To:
IDM List
Date:
Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:22:36 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <021e01c130db$e2f89ec0$7ab8869f@pauls>
From: Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org>
quoted 1 line <WARNING: HIGH GEEK FACTOR>> <WARNING: HIGH GEEK FACTOR>
:-)
quoted 6 lines Again, it's a tricky thing to try force something that's> Again, it's a tricky thing to try force something that's > inherently multi-dimensional (graphics -- at least 2 dimensions) into > something that's basically one-dimensional (audio -- on a per track basis) > and back again. You have to put a *lot* of work into a tool that will > create interesting and varied results converting from one direction and > back the other way again -- no doubt.
It's not as hard as you think. Audio in the time domain is two dimensional (amplitude vs time) and in the Frequency domain is still so, frequency vs. time. The tool for converting between the two domains (the FFT) is very well understood at this point. However we are probably at the infancy of picture to audio conversion, there is no reason that spectral information in the picture could not be used to generate phase information and so on.
quoted 5 lines Though I'm not really interested in sound that's coming just *purely*> Though I'm not really interested in sound that's coming just *purely* > from a graphic source. I was thinking more along the lines of certain > graphic factors and traversals triggering source samples, or possibly > seeding an array of preconstructed pieces... rhythmic, moody, chaotic, > whatever.
It is interesting, but such tools are only going to be as effective as the algorithms you choose to put around them. If anything, you'd be better of working with stuff like CSound or the like and projecting the results into a graphic context, fiddling about until you find interesting patterns and then turning up the volume. You might be amused to know that there was a patch on the Nord Modular list recently designed to generate images of 3d cubes on an oscilloscope using XY plots :-)
quoted 4 lines * Color (redness, greenness, blueness, hue, saturation, etc.)> * Color (redness, greenness, blueness, hue, saturation, etc.) > * Edges/Bluriness > * Overall color distribution > * Clusters of similar graphic regions and locations thereof
If you can tolerate offline image processing the possibilities are of course a lot wider.
quoted 4 lines All these could simply be triggers/seeders of already pregenerated sound> All these could simply be triggers/seeders of already pregenerated sound > somehow. Maybe just put a point on some 2-dimensional color photo file > and have it run around the bits, and do things with that... just as an > example.
You might also find it interesting to investigate audio interfaces to cellular automata software. I can think of some interesting ways that this would combine with granular synthesis. I don't have the skills to try it yet, but hopefully within about a year. I have no idea what it would sound like...pretty different from anything that is out there now.
quoted 2 lines Anyway, maybe this typing time is better spent coding up such a little> Anyway, maybe this typing time is better spent coding up such a little > gadget.... but just some food for thought on the graphics<-->sound thread.
You ought to join the IDM-making list for this kind of entertaining geeky stuff. It's on yahoo and quite a nice list, not too much traffic and a high s/n ratio. Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-08-30 11:54Ben KirkleyWow, that's so cool! I remember reading an interview with RDJ a couple years back where he
From:
Ben Kirkley
To:
Jarmo Niinisalo , idm
Date:
Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:54:14 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <B7B3E7F5.2B9D%ben.kirkley@displaypost.co.uk>
Wow, that's so cool! I remember reading an interview with RDJ a couple years back where he was talking about wanting to "paint" music. I wonder if this is what he was referring to?
quoted 12 lines (Optionally you can also rip the wav yourself if you have the original> (Optionally you can also rip the wav yourself if you have the original > Windowlicker CD with a suitable program, such as CDEX - the face is > situated at the very end of the song) > > Then, start the spectrogram program, choose Function -> Analyze File -> > face.wav > > Set the settings similar to the ones in this picture > > http://www.iki.fi/jjn/aphex_settings.gif > > And press OK. The picture should appear.
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2001-08-30 12:07Jarmo NiinisaloAnig Browl wrote: > You might also find it interesting to investigate audio interfaces to
From:
Jarmo Niinisalo
To:
Date:
Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:07:03 +0300
Subject:
Re: [idm] Dissecting Windowlicker track #2
permalink · <3B8E2C67.CB101C43@iki.fi>
Anig Browl wrote:
quoted 2 lines You might also find it interesting to investigate audio interfaces to> You might also find it interesting to investigate audio interfaces to > cellular automata software.
I wrote a story about a-life for the local magazine a while ago and during the process I ran into one semi-interesting a-life audio thingy called Living Melodies. It models the evolution of "mating calls", which basically means it spews out pretty mean-sounding MIDI garble (nothing that a seasoned IDM veteral couldn't handle, though). The program and the paper about it can be found at http://www.design.chalmers.se/projects/art_and_interactivity/living-melodies/ The program is pretty rudimentary with not much tweaking capabilities, but it's an interesting experiment nonetheless - and so far the audio a-life -program I've managed to find. Are there more similar programs around? -- JarmoNiinisalo, http://www.iki.fi/jjn/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org