IDM Mailing Archive

<rant> Well I'm sure glad I didn't spend $400 on an MP3 jukebox ! What about that whole aspect of the debate? There are products being sold on the market today for playing MP3's. If CD's are built to disable this then isn't it disabling another sector of the marketplace as well? Are we to assume that the only people creating MP3's are those with 'original content'. Could they fill up 2gigs on a jukebox with it? WTF? What's the point? Personally, although I love the access to such a wide range of music I'm getting really sick of the lack of fidelity in a 128kbps MP3. It does not sound rich. It sounds dull. To me it is just a high-quality preview. If I actually like the album I'll just go out and buy it. </rant> Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul ----- Original Message ----- From: Mxyzptlk To: Howard Shih Cc: idm@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [idm] copy protection Well, they're either poorly mastered or copy protected. They won't rip well at all or even track for playing on the cd-rom. Some great stuff on the label, btw. jeff At 02:21 PM 8/14/2001, Howard Shih wrote: >On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote: > > Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the > > Elektrolux label are copy-protected. > >I thought it was only that country guy you've never heard of >until now... Charley Pride that had his cd 'copy-protected'. > >hs

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Static Beats wrote:

quoted 13 lines <rant>

> <rant> > Well I'm sure glad I didn't spend $400 on an MP3 jukebox ! > > What about that whole aspect of the debate? > There are products being sold on the market today for playing MP3's. > If CD's are built to disable this then isn't it disabling another >sector of the marketplace as well? Are we to assume that the only people > creating MP3's are those with 'original content'. Could they fill up > 2gigs on a jukebox with it? > > WTF? > > What's the point?

I definitely agree with this... I forget which Illuminati or powers that be are at the forefront of all this copyrighted CD nonsense, but it is ridiculous that these same powers could also be indirectly behind marketing the same Mp3 playing gadgets that would be rendered moot by the former anyway. On one hand, one argument offered behind copyright CDs is that it curbs the speed at which music is copied more than prevent it altogether. On the other hand, what's the point of trying to retard the inevitable? (CDplayer --> audio out --> audio in --> computer.... no digital watermarking can prevent this method of copying... whatever slight resampling differences occur)

quoted 4 lines Personally, although I love the access to such a wide range of music

> Personally, although I love the access to such a wide range of music >I'm getting really sick of the lack of fidelity in a 128kbps MP3. It does >not sound rich. It sounds dull. To me it is just a high-quality preview. >If I actually like the album I'll just go out and buy it.

Heh. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of the main motifs of having a compressed, downloadable music file format? I'm not an RIAA apologist -- but I think it would be naive to think that Mp3s were created for the purpose of digitally archiving music at high quality. (Not to call you one of those naive people, Mista Beats... just speaking rhetorically)

quoted 2 lines </rant>

> > </rant>

======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 08/14/01, Brian MacDonald wrote:

quoted 7 lines Heh. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of the main motifs of having a

> > Heh. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of the main motifs of having a > compressed, downloadable music file format? I'm not an RIAA apologist -- > but I think it would be naive to think that Mp3s were created for the > purpose of digitally archiving music at high quality. (Not to call you > one of those naive people, Mista Beats... just speaking rhetorically) >

Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. RIAA apologist. - wells oliver || wells@submute.net "I wouldn't know because I don't read, but I'll tell you one thing for sure: I wouldn't trust no words written down on no piece of paper especially from no Dickinson out in the town of Machine. You're just as likely to find your own grave." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote:

quoted 2 lines Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know

> Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know > you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist.

actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by manufacturing copy-proof CDs, the RIAA is infringing on my right to make as many copies of a CD as i want/need, provided it's only for personal use, and provided i purchased the original. here is the real issue. part of what i pay for when i purchase a CD is a limited license which allows me to do this. the difference is in WHO is breaking this license. the RIAA by ASSUMING we're not going to comply to the license? or those who ACTUALLY DO make/distribute copies? i could be wrong, but i think you actually have to commit a crime before penalties can be put on you for comiting it. copy-proof CDs are essentialy a PREEMPTIVE-PENALTY against consumers. and that, i believe is illegal in and of itself. -j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

on 08/14/01 4:45 PM, j snod at jordan@actualsize.com wrote:

quoted 26 lines On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote:

> > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote: >> Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know >> you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. > > actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by > manufacturing copy-proof CDs, the RIAA is infringing on my right to make > as many copies of a CD as i want/need, provided it's only for personal > use, and provided i purchased the original. here is the real issue. part > of what i pay for when i purchase a CD is a limited license which allows > me to do this. > > the difference is in WHO is breaking this license. the RIAA by > ASSUMING we're not going to comply to the license? or those who ACTUALLY > DO make/distribute copies? i could be wrong, but i think you actually > have to commit a crime before penalties can be put on you for comiting > it. copy-proof CDs are essentialy a PREEMPTIVE-PENALTY against consumers. > and that, i believe is illegal in and of itself. > > -j > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

Word to that! We do know of the "guilty until proven innocent". --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote:

quoted 4 lines Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know

> Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know > you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. > > RIAA apologist.

Listen, Hetfield, you better get the fuck back into the clinic before the happy people that take care of you and put things in you have to become the unhappy people. ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the Elektrolux label are copy-protected. It seems that this may indeed spread beyond the Snoop Doggy Dog market - or, rather, has. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote:

quoted 4 lines Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the

> Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the > Elektrolux label are copy-protected. > It seems that this may indeed spread beyond the Snoop Doggy Dog market - > or, rather, has.

I thought it was only that country guy you've never heard of until now... Charley Pride that had his cd 'copy-protected'. hs --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Well, they're either poorly mastered or copy protected. They won't rip well at all or even track for playing on the cd-rom. Some great stuff on the label, btw. jeff At 02:21 PM 8/14/2001, Howard Shih wrote:

quoted 8 lines On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote: > > Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the > > Elektrolux label are copy-protected. > >I thought it was only that country guy you've never heard of >until now... Charley Pride that had his cd 'copy-protected'. > >hs

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quoted 6 lines actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by

> actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by > manufacturing copy-proof CDs, the RIAA is infringing on my right to make > as many copies of a CD as i want/need, provided it's only for personal > use, and provided i purchased the original. here is the real issue. part > of what i pay for when i purchase a CD is a limited license which allows > me to do this.

I've never heard or read anywhere that said you have a legal right to copying cd's over and over as long as its for personal use. certainly the idea is that companies don't mind if you copy but ONLY if it's for personal use, but I'd wager there's no law on the books having to do with a person's inalieable right to copy ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aaron Trumm NQuit (Never Never Quit) aaron@nquit.com www.nquit.com Music Available At: * http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/thirdoption * http://www.joesgrille.com/store/p-8633.html * http://thirdoption.iuma.com * http://ubl.artistdirect.com/fp2.asp?layout=artist_card&artistid=476400 * http://www.cdstreet.com/artists/nquit/ * http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005JJEY/qid%3D988850999/104-919049 6-7143939 * http://www.mp3.com/thirdoption * http://www.stationmp3.com/stationMP3/musicians/index.cfm?id=204 * http://www.musicbuilder.com/Third_Option/ * http://thirdoption.djcentral.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

<but I'd wager there's no law on the books having to do with a person's inalieable right to copy> Getting way off topic - rights ought not to be things which a law gives you - they're things you have unless an existing law conflicts with them. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Trumm [mailto:aaron@nquit.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 5:55 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] copy protection (rant)

quoted 6 lines actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by

> actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by > manufacturing copy-proof CDs, the RIAA is infringing on my right to make > as many copies of a CD as i want/need, provided it's only for personal > use, and provided i purchased the original. here is the real issue. part > of what i pay for when i purchase a CD is a limited license which allows > me to do this.

I've never heard or read anywhere that said you have a legal right to copying cd's over and over as long as its for personal use. certainly the idea is that companies don't mind if you copy but ONLY if it's for personal use, but I'd wager there's no law on the books having to do with a person's inalieable right to copy ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aaron Trumm NQuit (Never Never Quit) aaron@nquit.com www.nquit.com Music Available At: * http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/thirdoption * http://www.joesgrille.com/store/p-8633.html * http://thirdoption.iuma.com * http://ubl.artistdirect.com/fp2.asp?layout=artist_card&artistid=476400 * http://www.cdstreet.com/artists/nquit/ * http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005JJEY/qid%3D988850999/104-919049 6-7143939 * http://www.mp3.com/thirdoption * http://www.stationmp3.com/stationMP3/musicians/index.cfm?id=204 * http://www.musicbuilder.com/Third_Option/ * http://thirdoption.djcentral.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Aaron Trumm wrote:

quoted 5 lines I've never heard or read anywhere that said you have a legal right to

> I've never heard or read anywhere that said you have a legal right to > copying cd's over and over as long as its for personal use. certainly the > idea is that companies don't mind if you copy but ONLY if it's for personal > use, but I'd wager there's no law on the books having to do with a person's > inalieable right to copy

yes it's called "fair use of copyrighted works." search for "fair use" on google and you'll find plenty of shit in the lawbooks protecting consumers' rights to fair use (aka personal copies). -j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Within the copyright act I've always understood that multiple copies were allowed to be made for educational purpose (ie. if a teacher wanted to make 50 copies of a Sun Ra CD for a tool to teach a class on free-jazz, etc...) Other copies made could be considered non-infringement when put against an "effect on marketplace" argument. But that's an argument that everyone will have a different view on and is possibly relative to the overall sales of the artist in question. So it could be argued that if you make a backup of your CD there was no effect on the marketplace because (rightly so) you weren't going to buy 2 copies anyway. However the law itself doesn't 100% allow for personal copies to be made, and I would doubt this law could be held up as a legal argument that copyright encoding/protecting CD's is an illegal action. But hey I'm not a lawyer. My specialty is label running not dissecting legal text so it's entirely possible I'm wrong. Jeff on 8/14/01 5:01 PM, j snod at jordan@actualsize.com wrote:

quoted 19 lines On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Aaron Trumm wrote:

> > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Aaron Trumm wrote: >> I've never heard or read anywhere that said you have a legal right to >> copying cd's over and over as long as its for personal use. certainly the >> idea is that companies don't mind if you copy but ONLY if it's for personal >> use, but I'd wager there's no law on the books having to do with a person's >> inalieable right to copy > > yes it's called "fair use of copyrighted works." search for "fair > use" on google and you'll find plenty of shit in the lawbooks protecting > consumers' rights to fair use (aka personal copies). > > -j > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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for those of you interested in fair use law, you ought to check out _fair use: the story of the letter u and the numeral 2_ which was written by negativland and details their experiences with copyright law and island records after they released something which bore a distinct resemblance to a certain u2 release... it's not entirely relevant to this discussion, but it is informative and amusing. lalala, gregory __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 9 lines for those of you interested in fair use law,

>for those of you interested in fair use law, >you ought to check out _fair use: the story >of the letter u and the numeral 2_ which was >written by negativland and details their experiences >with copyright law and island records after they >released something which bore a distinct resemblance >to a certain u2 release... >it's not entirely relevant to this discussion, but >it is informative and amusing.

Pretty much any issue you want to take up involving copyright, Negativland is right on the money. Too bad they are not millionaires by now. They deserve it. -- ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- omz beautamous loaf recordings http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

[Aaron Trumm <aaron@nquit.com>]

quoted 5 lines I've never heard or read anywhere that said you have a legal right to

> I've never heard or read anywhere that said you have a legal right to > copying cd's over and over as long as its for personal use. certainly the > idea is that companies don't mind if you copy but ONLY if it's for personal > use, but I'd wager there's no law on the books having to do with a person's > inalieable right to copy

Audio Home Recording Act of 1992. http://www.atomly.com/random/ahra.html -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@my2way.com http://www.atomly.com/ | 877.741.3571 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I don't know how MANY copies you are allowed, but if you own the original work, it IS legal to make at least A copy for personal use. jeff

quoted 6 lines I've never heard or read anywhere that said you have a legal right to

>I've never heard or read anywhere that said you have a legal right to >copying cd's over and over as long as its for personal use. certainly the >idea is that companies don't mind if you copy but ONLY if it's for personal >use, but I'd wager there's no law on the books having to do with a person's >inalieable right to copy >

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jean paul l'asthme wrote:

quoted 9 lines for those of you interested in fair use law,

> for those of you interested in fair use law, > you ought to check out _fair use: the story > of the letter u and the numeral 2_ which was > written by negativland and details their experiences > with copyright law and island records after they > released something which bore a distinct resemblance > to a certain u2 release... > it's not entirely relevant to this discussion, but > it is informative and amusing.

I have a copy of that...very funny...Negativland have got a big website as well at: http://www.negativland.com/ -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org