IDM Mailing Archive

From the popbitch email: Rumour has it that reclusive Stock Aitken and Waterman hero Rick Astley has been lured out of retirement, and is working with techno production team Two Lone Swordsmen - aka dance music pioneer Andy Weatherall. 'Never gonna give you up' is never going to sound the same again. Dan. (ignore message to follow) Dan Shoebridge Project Executive The Ops Room Ltd Tel: 020 8410 8000 Fax: 020 8410 8001 Email: Dan.Shoebridge@opsroom.co.uk CONFIDENTIALITY This communication contains information which is confidential and may also be priviledged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), please note that any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information it contains is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and then destroy any copies in whatever format they are held. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Nor indeed the glitch remix of "together4ever" -i --- Dan Shoebridge <Dan.Shoebridge@opsroom.co.uk> wrote:

quoted 37 lines From the popbitch email:

> From the popbitch email: > > Rumour has it that reclusive Stock Aitken and > Waterman hero Rick Astley has been lured out of > retirement, and is working with techno production > team Two Lone Swordsmen - aka dance music pioneer > Andy Weatherall. > > 'Never gonna give you up' is never going to sound the same again. > > Dan. > > (ignore message to follow) > > Dan Shoebridge > Project Executive > The Ops Room Ltd > Tel: 020 8410 8000 > Fax: 020 8410 8001 > Email: Dan.Shoebridge@opsroom.co.uk > > CONFIDENTIALITY > This communication contains information which is confidential and may also be > priviledged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If > you are not the intended recipient(s), please note that any distribution, > copying or use of this communication or the information it contains is > strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, > please notify the sender immediately and then destroy any copies in whatever > format they are held. > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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don't understand this really: according the http://ninjatune.net under: L ninja tune L releases L singles/eps there is a MCD version of the Wagon Christ's single "Ataride" but i cann't find it anywhere. also there should be 12" version only of his single "Receiver" but i was able to find also MCD version of it on my web store... anyone knows it better??? i'll like to buy this MCD "Ataride" since i'm taken with his new album "Musipal". 1st listen: disappointed 2nd listen: hmmm?! 3rd - 10th listen: WOW!!!!!! enjoy, but safely =: ma_hovina > http://sjever.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Sorry our mistake. The CD version was mistakenly put up at the web site for mailorder, but there is no CD version, nor are there any plans for one. It will possibly surface on CD in the future on some promo sampler and/or the next version of Xen Cuts. Jeff on 7/26/01 2:28 PM, ma_hovina at =@sjever.com wrote:

quoted 32 lines don't understand this really:

> don't understand this really: > > according the http://ninjatune.net under: > > L ninja tune > L releases > L singles/eps > > there is a MCD version of the Wagon Christ's single "Ataride" but i cann't > find it anywhere. > also there should be 12" version only of his single "Receiver" but i was > able to find also MCD version of it on my web store... > > > > anyone knows it better??? i'll like to buy this MCD "Ataride" since i'm > taken with his new album "Musipal". > > 1st listen: disappointed > 2nd listen: hmmm?! > 3rd - 10th listen: WOW!!!!!! > > > > enjoy, but safely =: > ma_hovina > http://sjever.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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oooh :( what a pity! does it mean BOTH singles are 12" ONLY??? i found "Receiver" on my webstore: http://www.allrecords.de/shop/suchennorm.php?suchen_interpret=wagon+christ&s uchen_titel=&x=29&y=12&uid=0&sid=36268524&m=new ma_hovina at 26.07.2001 23:43 Uhr, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote:

quoted 49 lines Sorry our mistake. The CD version was mistakenly put up at the web site for

> Sorry our mistake. The CD version was mistakenly put up at the web site for > mailorder, but there is no CD version, nor are there any plans for one. It > will possibly surface on CD in the future on some promo sampler and/or the > next version of Xen Cuts. > > Jeff > > > > on 7/26/01 2:28 PM, ma_hovina at =@sjever.com wrote: > >> don't understand this really: >> >> according the http://ninjatune.net under: >> >> L ninja tune >> L releases >> L singles/eps >> >> there is a MCD version of the Wagon Christ's single "Ataride" but i cann't >> find it anywhere. >> also there should be 12" version only of his single "Receiver" but i was >> able to find also MCD version of it on my web store... >> >> >> >> anyone knows it better??? i'll like to buy this MCD "Ataride" since i'm >> taken with his new album "Musipal". >> >> 1st listen: disappointed >> 2nd listen: hmmm?! >> 3rd - 10th listen: WOW!!!!!! >> >> >> >> enjoy, but safely =: >> ma_hovina > http://sjever.com >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, ma_hovina wrote:

quoted 4 lines oooh :(

> oooh :( > > what a pity! does it mean BOTH singles are 12" ONLY??? > i found "Receiver" on my webstore:

i saw 'receiver' on cd (in a 'recycled papersleeve' style) floating around ...that song kicks ass. bias. malenkaja.voda.[70].222.3540.............ssaJ6oJd u! owep d3 peolf!yS:se!8 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines there is a MCD version of the Wagon Christ's single "Ataride" but i cann�

> there is a MCD version of the Wagon Christ's single "Ataride" but i cann't > find it anywhere. > also there should be 12" version only of his single "Receiver" but i was > able to find also MCD version of it on my web store...

ninja site is a bit off. receiver should be CD and 12", and ataride is 12" only. same tracklist on the site, minus the radio edit though... while on the subject of wagon christ, anyone know anything about "london is a country: the remixes" -- the label, hotel lotte, and the remixers? rei$$dorf force and link? or are those just the titles...? just popped up without a mention by anyone... thanksbye. Edwin Wong [ suction@home.com ] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Thu, 26 July 2001, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote:

quoted 3 lines Sorry our mistake. The CD version was mistakenly put up at the web site for

> > Sorry our mistake. The CD version was mistakenly put up at the web site for > mailorder, but there is no CD version, nor are there any plans for one.

aw, bummer! why no cd version? does luke vibert not care about people with cd players? :) -rachel (aja dj pie) -- "time can but make it easier to be wise / though now it seems impossible, and so / all that you need is patience." --yeats --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

sure luke cares about people with cd players, but he also cares about dj's with vinyl junkie habits...like all the dj's...and these tracks are specially dj friendly ones imho. we fixed the website as soon as we realised there was an error... At 7:44 pm -0700 26/7/01, rachel@velvetpants.com wrote:

quoted 11 lines On Thu, 26 July 2001, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote:

>On Thu, 26 July 2001, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote: > >> >> Sorry our mistake. The CD version was mistakenly put up at the web site for >> mailorder, but there is no CD version, nor are there any plans for one. > >aw, bummer! why no cd version? does luke vibert not care about >people with cd players? :) > >-rachel (aja dj pie) >

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On Fri, 27 July 2001, nethed wrote:

quoted 4 lines sure luke cares about people with cd players, but he also

> > sure luke cares about people with cd players, but he also > cares about dj's with vinyl junkie habits...like all the > dj's...and these tracks are specially dj friendly ones imho.

well, perhaps luke doesn't realize that not all djs spin vinyl? i use cds, and so do a fair number of the other djs i know here in the sf bay area...and happily, i've been able to use some of luke's tracks here and there. i'm not trying to whine here, i just don't understand why artists don't release both vinyl and cd when they can. i'll still buy whatever wagon christ releases do come out on cd--just picked up 'nuggets'... :) -rachel (aka dj pie) -- "why does shrimp go from grey to pink when you cook it, but meat goes from pink to grey? those are the kinds of things that i think about." --jon! rachel@velvetpants.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Record label decision due to the fact that there is vitually no market left for CD singles. People downloading tracks has taken an estimated 25%-50% off the total CD single market. I can build my next house off the CD single returns we've got in the office... Jeff on 7/27/01 10:47 AM, rachel@velvetpants.com at rachel@velvetpants.com wrote:

quoted 25 lines On Fri, 27 July 2001, nethed wrote:

> On Fri, 27 July 2001, nethed wrote: > >> >> sure luke cares about people with cd players, but he also >> cares about dj's with vinyl junkie habits...like all the >> dj's...and these tracks are specially dj friendly ones imho. > > well, perhaps luke doesn't realize that not all djs spin vinyl? > > i use cds, and so do a fair number of the other djs i know here > in the sf bay area...and happily, i've been able to use some > of luke's tracks here and there. > > i'm not trying to whine here, i just don't understand why artists > don't release both vinyl and cd when they can. i'll still buy > whatever wagon christ releases do come out on cd--just picked > up 'nuggets'... :) > > -rachel (aka dj pie) > > -- > "why does shrimp go from grey to pink when you cook it, but meat > goes from pink to grey? those are the kinds of things that i think > about." --jon! rachel@velvetpants.com >

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On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote:

quoted 6 lines Record label decision due to the fact that there is vitually no market left

> Record label decision due to the fact that there is vitually no market left > for CD singles. People downloading tracks has taken an estimated 25%-50% off > the total CD single market. I can build my next house off the CD single > returns we've got in the office... > > Jeff

Not to cast aspersions on you and yours Jeff, but considering the ridiculous prices charged for most CD singles, it shouldn't really be a suprise. Frankly I'm more suprised at how long (and how willing) the general public has been throwing away $7. What's the price breakdown on a produced CD single, and how would the costs for a small artist compare with a bigger name. Considering all the marketing going into some of those big name, big hype groups, I figure record companies are trying to recoup expenses in that regard. Do these smaller companies charge the same as larger ones just to eek by and cover costs, or are they charging simply because the market can demand that kind of mark-up? Chris _________________________ Christopher Sorg Multimedia Artist/Teacher http://csorg.cjb.net csorg@enteract.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines are trying to recoup expenses in that regard. Do these smaller companies

>are trying to recoup expenses in that regard. Do these smaller companies >charge the same as larger ones just to eek by and cover costs, or are they >charging simply because the market can demand that kind of mark-up?

</holywar> -eric --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Jeff/Ninja Tune <jeff@ninjatune.net> wrote:

quoted 4 lines We've always tried to pad out our singles with as

> We've always tried to pad out our singles with as > much stuff as possible to > make them worthwhile and attempt to keep the list > price down as low as we can.

Back in 1995 I remember being really impressed with Ninja Tune's prices. The Refried Food double packs seemed really cheap when they came out. I think there were some other singles that I also felt that way about. Same with Xen Cuts!

quoted 3 lines Even at that CD singles are nothing more than a

> Even at that CD singles are nothing more than a > break even proposition > for us, and most of the time we run a loss on them.

I don't know if it is a price issue or just the buying habits of people that only buy cds. Perhaps since I use to dj and collect records, I don't mind paying $9.99-10.99 for just a few good tunes. Even when I have downloaded some mp3s, I'm still very likely to go buy the release, but usually on vinyl... not on cd. For those of you that only buy cds, you should get a turntable because there are so many great releases that only come out on vinyl!

quoted 3 lines They cost the same to

> They cost the same to > manufacture as a full length and sell for less than > half the price.

Does Vinyl cost more to produce than CDS? I thought that was the case...maybe I'm wrong.

quoted 1 line They're good for promotion, not so good for bank

> They're good for promotion, not so good for bank

balance and keeping floor space in the office. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i used to lament when there are no cd versions of eps and singles. then i bought a real good turntable and good cartridge. now i almost prefer vinyl. you cannot get everything on any one format so you must accept it and buy both cds and vinyl to stay on top. plus, vinyl sounds cool. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

What Jeff is saying is true, with just the exceptions of more expensive mastering and higher rate of royalties on albums, cd singles and Eps cost the same to manufacture as doing a full length cd. Its alot more cost effective to put out a whole album. Rob ::::::Component Records::::::: Box 783, Somers, Ct 06071 www.componentrecords.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff/Ninja Tune <jeff@ninjatune.net> To: Christopher Sorg <csorg@enteract.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [idm] wagon christ: ataride

quoted 52 lines We've always tried to pad out our singles with as much stuff as possible to

> We've always tried to pad out our singles with as much stuff as possible to > make them worthwhile and attempt to keep the list price down as low as we > can. Even at that CD singles are nothing more than a break even proposition > for us, and most of the time we run a loss on them. They cost the same to > manufacture as a full length and sell for less than half the price. They're > good for promotion, not so good for bank balance and keeping floor space in > the office. > > Jeff > > on 7/30/01 2:49 PM, Christopher Sorg at csorg@enteract.com wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote: > > > >> Record label decision due to the fact that there is vitually no market left > >> for CD singles. People downloading tracks has taken an estimated 25%-50% off > >> the total CD single market. I can build my next house off the CD single > >> returns we've got in the office... > >> > >> Jeff > > > > Not to cast aspersions on you and yours Jeff, but considering the > > ridiculous prices charged for most CD singles, it shouldn't really be a > > suprise. Frankly I'm more suprised at how long (and how willing) the > > general public has been throwing away $7. What's the price breakdown on a > > produced CD single, and how would the costs for a small artist compare > > with a bigger name. Considering all the marketing going into some of > > those big name, big hype groups, I figure record companies > > are trying to recoup expenses in that regard. Do these smaller companies > > charge the same as larger ones just to eek by and cover costs, or are they > > charging simply because the market can demand that kind of mark-up? > > > > Chris > > > > _________________________ > > Christopher Sorg > > Multimedia Artist/Teacher > > http://csorg.cjb.net > > csorg@enteract.com > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 9 lines Record label decision due to the fact that there is vitually no market

> > Record label decision due to the fact that there is vitually no market > left > > for CD singles. People downloading tracks has taken an estimated 25%-50% > off > > the total CD single market. I can build my next house off the CD single > > returns we've got in the office... > > > > Jeff >

Is it really like that? Myself I still buy singles whenever the artists are good enough for that investment. But when singles have 2 or 3 songs of the album and still we have to pay £4 or more, it's difficult not to download the only track that you don't know and save that money for another album... That is not the case of this Wagon Christ EP, however. I don't regularly buy vynil, but because "Musipal" is really good, I bought "Ataride" as well (and I think it's a good investment!). Therefore maybe this one deserves a CD-Single edition for the folks that don't have turntables... Don't you want to reconsider? :) César PS: but I do think CD-Singles are too expensive. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines We've always tried to pad out our singles with as much stuff as possible

> > We've always tried to pad out our singles with as much stuff as possible > to > > make them worthwhile and attempt to keep the list price down as low as

we

quoted 3 lines can. Even at that CD singles are nothing more than a break even

> > can. Even at that CD singles are nothing more than a break even > proposition > > for us, and most of the time we run a loss on them. They cost the same

to

quoted 7 lines manufacture as a full length and sell for less than half the price.

> > manufacture as a full length and sell for less than half the price. > They're > > good for promotion, not so good for bank balance and keeping floor space > in > > the office. > > > > Jeff

Okay, this answers part of the mail I posted... I recon that Ninja Tune is not like other labels concerning CD-Singles editions... But I still think "Ataride" deserves a CD edition. Curiosity: is it more expensive to produce a vynil or a CD? (I really don't know...). César --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: Jeff/Ninja Tune <jeff@ninjatune.net>

quoted 1 line Record label decision due to the fact that there is vitually no market

> Record label decision due to the fact that there is vitually no market

left

quoted 1 line for CD singles. People downloading tracks has taken an estimated 25%-50%

> for CD singles. People downloading tracks has taken an estimated 25%-50%

off

quoted 1 line the total CD single market.

> the total CD single market.

I'm sorry to hear that it causes business problems for your label. On the other hand, CD singles aren't exactly cheap, are they? I personally don't mind paying a rather high price for music, as I have specialist tastes and I also DJ sometimes, and I am obsessed anyway. But I think record companies are losing a lot of buyers this way. Like I have been *thinking* about picking up the 'Come to Daddy' single (after listening to an mp3, BTW), but here in Ireland it's £10 (12.5 euros). That has quite a few extra tracks on it, so it's not bad value, but the same is not true of many CD singles. I'm not pointing the finger at you, just at the general pricing conventions. Long before I got into electronic music, when I was a teenager in the 80s, I had a lot of respect for artists like the Smiths and Billy Brag who put 'pay no more than £5.99' stickers on their album sleeves. I know you have to pay for the manufacture, distribution, retail agent, artist, yourselves, and the PRS. But I think many people are taking downloaded music because of the *perception* of some kind of music industry cartel that keeps prices artificially high. Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: Jeff/Ninja Tune <jeff@ninjatune.net>

quoted 1 line can. Even at that CD singles are nothing more than a break even

> can. Even at that CD singles are nothing more than a break even

proposition

quoted 2 lines for us, and most of the time we run a loss on them. They cost the same to

> for us, and most of the time we run a loss on them. They cost the same to > manufacture as a full length and sell for less than half the price.

I see your point about trying to offer good value for money by using as much CD capacity as possible. Also, you're running a label and I'm not, so please don't take the following as an argument - in fact feel free to tell me I'm talking through my arse: Isn't manufacture one of the lowest parts of the cost? Looking at ads from duplication/pressing houses, I see things like 1000CDs for £900. OK, that's 90p each, about 13% of a £7 single. But I presume the cost goes down as volume rises, and that labels like yourself can push for a bit of a further discount. I thought the problem was that the distribution->retail end were very hard-nosed about minimum unit return, and wouldn't stock stuff if they couldn't make a good unit profit. Is this true? Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org