IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 11 lines Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:45:32 -0000

> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:45:32 -0000 > From: "nobo jackson" <iamnobojackson@hotmail.com> > Subject: [idm]Laptop Punks and Powerbook Pop > > ...Similar frustration arises when journalists try to read something into a > piece of music that just isn't there. > > So, bottom line: Thank you journalists who read (and help produce) this list > for doing what you do. You save me a great deal of time. But please just > try to be a bit more straightforward. The phrase "you might like this if > you like X, Y, or Z" oftentimes is more than sufficient.

Doesn't anyone, writer or not, get frustrated at comments like these? Isn't is possible that a writer can correctly read a piece of music, and even extend its appreciation by pointing out other meanings it might hold, that might not be evident to a casual listener? The fun of art is that it doesn't have to fit into cut-and-dried consumerist descriptions, i.e. "it sounds like X + Y + Z + a little Autechre on the side, therefore go out and buy it." If you have to be instructed by your music magazine on what to buy, then you're reading the wrong magazine. Or perhaps you're reading whatever you deserve to read. Writers get paid (well, frankly, most don't) by the music industry to use their imaginations and, I think, most try to take what they believe to be interesting and legitimately creative pieces of work and put it into words, to raise or change the perception of something that the general public might not even give a second glance. It is fucking hard to translate X minutes of music into a two-paragraph piece. Creative writing of any kind is hard work (as it should be). Anyone who can do this without resorting to glib, easy, and often inaccurate comparisions with other groups -- which is usually just a disguised form of namedropping, when the names get obscure -- anyone who can use the power of words to make a deserving work of art sound fresh and inventive, has earned my respect. Even more so are you deserving if you are lucky enough to manage to somehow make a living off of this business. It is a lot harder than you think. Some writers aspire to be the equivalent of rock stars, but others go for respect, and it is insulting to throw everyone into the same pigeonhole. Yeesh, Alex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Alex Reynolds <reynolda@sas.upenn.edu> wrote:

quoted 10 lines Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:45:32 -0000

> > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:45:32 -0000 > > From: "nobo jackson" <iamnobojackson@hotmail.com> > > > > try to be a bit more straightforward. The phrase > "you might like this if > > you like X, Y, or Z" oftentimes is more than > sufficient. > > Doesn't anyone, writer or not, get frustrated at > comments like these?

[snip]

quoted 5 lines Some writers aspire to be the equivalent of rock

> Some writers aspire to be the equivalent of rock > stars, but others go > for respect, and it is insulting to throw everyone > into the same > pigeonhole.

I can respect reviewers for what they do, but I don't put a lot of weight into what they say, not matter what art form or genre they're reviewing. Just like music, we're all going to react to reviewers differently, and when it comes down to it, I respect the opinions of my friends and this list a lot more than some review in a magazine or paper, especially when the review is basically nameless. Most people tend to only read reviews for stuff they already have heard anyways. I think this has a lot to do with the human social need to place our opinions in a larger social context. Blah blah blah. I mean, it's nice to hear a new album, but it's even nicer to feel like we agree or disagree with someone else about it. Don't worry about why, it just is. The best thing to do is find a magazine or reviewer that you almost consistently agree with, and go from there. I do that with this list - some people will recommend things and I don't pay much attention because I know my tastes don't match theirs, while other people will recommend things and I can be pretty sure I'll probably love whatever it is. Regardless of all that, in an age where I can at least try to sample the music before I buy it (MP3s, legit RealAudio, whatever), reviewers are just not that important to me at all. Sorry. I love the ones on this list, though, as they're more like recommendations from friends... -Adam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines Regardless of all that, in an age where I can at least

>Regardless of all that, in an age where I can at least >try to sample the music before I buy it (MP3s, legit >RealAudio, whatever), reviewers are just not that >important to me at all. Sorry.

See, this kind of attitude -- and I'm not coming after you, Adam -- indicates a real problem with the market orientation of "the music industry" and listeners' relationship with it. Maybe it's just my background in academia (dropped out of grad school, which makes me a failed academic, rather than failed rock star or novelist!), but I believe that good music criticism should be precisely that, a critical analysis that attempts to say something about what the music *does*, not just who it sounds like and whether or not it's worth buying. Now, obviously, that's a lot easier to accomplish when you've got 500+ words and a publication that's open to that philosophy, as opposed to a 75 word blurb. But I think that our culture suffers in general from this problem -- we've given up making meaning on our own, and have become simply consumers. Listen to most people talk about the movies they've seen -- reaction almost invariably comes down to "I liked it" or "I didn't like it," not, "That was interesting because A, B, and C, and while I felt that D was a bit of a hackneyed point and the director could have handled E in a more original way..." etc. Matthew Herbert has described his last album as being about the "failed relationships" that define our culture -- he typically discusses the relationship between consumers and corporations, or between citizens & people in power. But I'm beginning to see the way that the relationship between a *consumer* of a cultural product (record, movie, etc.) and its producer (whether artist or record company) is a failed relationship in the same way. Because the product fails to become the catalyst for engagement or further creativity; it's just another product. Cheers (or not) Philip

Well said Philip! and I'll have more comments for you, once I struggle through your xx,0000 word piece on "microhouse".... ;) -i --- Philip Sherburne <psherburne@jeevessolutions.com> wrote:

quoted 44 lines Regardless of all that, in an age where I can at least

> > >Regardless of all that, in an age where I can at least > >try to sample the music before I buy it (MP3s, legit > >RealAudio, whatever), reviewers are just not that > >important to me at all. Sorry. > > See, this kind of attitude -- and I'm not coming after you, Adam -- > indicates a real problem with the market orientation of "the music industry" > and listeners' relationship with it. Maybe it's just my background in > academia (dropped out of grad school, which makes me a failed academic, > rather than failed rock star or novelist!), but I believe that good music > criticism should be precisely that, a critical analysis that attempts to say > something about what the music *does*, not just who it sounds like and > whether or not it's worth buying. Now, obviously, that's a lot easier to > accomplish when you've got 500+ words and a publication that's open to that > philosophy, as opposed to a 75 word blurb. But I think that our culture > suffers in general from this problem -- we've given up making meaning on our > own, and have become simply consumers. Listen to most people talk about the > movies they've seen -- reaction almost invariably comes down to "I liked it" > or "I didn't like it," not, "That was interesting because A, B, and C, and > while I felt that D was a bit of a hackneyed point and the director could > have handled E in a more original way..." etc. > > Matthew Herbert has described his last album as being about the "failed > relationships" that define our culture -- he typically discusses the > relationship between consumers and corporations, or between citizens & > people in power. But I'm beginning to see the way that the relationship > between a *consumer* of a cultural product (record, movie, etc.) and its > producer (whether artist or record company) is a failed relationship in the > same way. Because the product fails to become the catalyst for engagement or > further creativity; it's just another product. > > Cheers (or not) > Philip > > > > > > > > > >

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Philip - keep up the good work! I enjoyed your essay in Clicks&Cuts2 very much (the other two I couldn't make head nor tail of...) and the Microhouse article in The Wire was an excellent introduction to a new microgenre (I'd love to know more about the guy with the beard, the bass guitar and the sausage dog - he sort of stood out relative to the carhartt-wearing Jelinek and the shaven-headed Brinkman!) Colin. _____________________________ ... and life is a song sung low and cool to rouse the gentle spirit Jeff Noon

quoted 50 lines From: Philip Sherburne <psherburne@jeevessolutions.com>

> From: Philip Sherburne <psherburne@jeevessolutions.com> > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:50:11 -0700 > To: "'idm@hyperreal.org'" <idm@hyperreal.org> > Cc: "'apiontek@yahoo.com'" <apiontek@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [idm] reviewing the reviewers > > >> Regardless of all that, in an age where I can at least >> try to sample the music before I buy it (MP3s, legit >> RealAudio, whatever), reviewers are just not that >> important to me at all. Sorry. > > See, this kind of attitude -- and I'm not coming after you, Adam -- > indicates a real problem with the market orientation of "the music industry" > and listeners' relationship with it. Maybe it's just my background in > academia (dropped out of grad school, which makes me a failed academic, > rather than failed rock star or novelist!), but I believe that good music > criticism should be precisely that, a critical analysis that attempts to say > something about what the music *does*, not just who it sounds like and > whether or not it's worth buying. Now, obviously, that's a lot easier to > accomplish when you've got 500+ words and a publication that's open to that > philosophy, as opposed to a 75 word blurb. But I think that our culture > suffers in general from this problem -- we've given up making meaning on our > own, and have become simply consumers. Listen to most people talk about the > movies they've seen -- reaction almost invariably comes down to "I liked it" > or "I didn't like it," not, "That was interesting because A, B, and C, and > while I felt that D was a bit of a hackneyed point and the director could > have handled E in a more original way..." etc. > > Matthew Herbert has described his last album as being about the "failed > relationships" that define our culture -- he typically discusses the > relationship between consumers and corporations, or between citizens & > people in power. But I'm beginning to see the way that the relationship > between a *consumer* of a cultural product (record, movie, etc.) and its > producer (whether artist or record company) is a failed relationship in the > same way. Because the product fails to become the catalyst for engagement or > further creativity; it's just another product. > > Cheers (or not) > Philip > > > > > > > > > >

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org