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I'll reluctantly admit that I own quite a few albums on which billy laswell is a producer or player.. he does seem to go for quantity over quality, and he's been mining the same vein of world-psych-funk-trance for n years now. that said, he's been involved in some ambitious & successful projects, although I can't think of anything recent that's really grabbed me. with a warning that my taste for his stuff tends toward the noisier end of the spectrum .... my essential B.L. list looks like this: massacre - killing time .brutal 'power trio' with laswell, fred frith and fred maher. totally great improvised aggro. the newer massacre album with charles hayward isn't nearly as good as this. they also appear on one side of frith's album 'speechless,' which is also excellent. p.i.l. - album (or "CD" or "Cassette") .not credited on the record anywhere, I don't think, but the band is laswell's, with tony williams, jonas hellborg, malachi favors, steve turre, ryuichi sakamoto & others. herbie hancock - rockit .however dated it sounds now, this was amazing at the time (1983). recorded at laswell's studio with michael beinhorn from material and D.ST last exit - everything except maybe "the noise of trouble" .jazz noise with laswell, sonny sharrock, peter brotzmann & ronald shannon jackson. painkiller - trio with laswell, mick harris, john zorn. yamantaka eye appears on disc 3 of 'execution ground.' caused aural hallucinations when I saw them play the cat's cradle in NC. master musicians of jajouka - apocalypse across the sky .laswell-recorded/produced sessions with the rediculously over-hyper master musicians of jajouka, morocco. still mind-blowing, though. a lot of the stuff on his now-defunct axiom label was pretty good.. henry threadgill, nicky skopelitis, sonny sharrock, maleem mahmoud ghania, here's what appears to be a complete laswell discography: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093/laswell/ ethan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Ethan Clauset <eclauset@webslingerZ.com> wrote:

quoted 3 lines that said, he's been involved in some ambitious &

>that said, he's been involved in some ambitious & >successful projects, although I can't think of >anything recent that's really grabbed me.

what did you think of 'tabla beat science: tala matrix' and his painkiller work? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I haven't heard the tabla beat science, but I do enjoy painkiller quite a lot. sometimes. the ambient dub v.1 and v.2 discs are good too, and probably easily findable as cutouts. who's on TBS:TM? laswell's power seems to be to assemble groups of hugely talented musicians in order to make mediocre records. e On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, winblad.donald.ichiro wrote:

quoted 9 lines --- Ethan Clauset <eclauset@webslingerZ.com> wrote:

> --- Ethan Clauset <eclauset@webslingerZ.com> wrote: > >that said, he's been involved in some ambitious & > >successful projects, although I can't think of > >anything recent that's really grabbed me. > > what did you think of 'tabla beat science: tala > matrix' and his painkiller work? > >

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On 24 Jun 2001, at 11:56, winblad.donald.ichiro wrote:

quoted 1 line what did you think of 'tabla beat science: tala matrix'

> what did you think of 'tabla beat science: tala matrix'

Strange you mention this, as I've just borrowed it and have been listening over the w/end. Hmmm, to be honest, quite boring would be my opinion. This is not really the direction of music I am fondest of, and after a while, it all seems to swim together into a homogenous mass of vaguely dubby eastern-infused ambientish sounds. The friend who lent it to me really likes it, though. So in the end (as always) it all rests on personal opinion. I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: Ethan Clauset <eclauset@webslingerZ.com>

quoted 4 lines p.i.l. - album (or "CD" or "Cassette")

> p.i.l. - album (or "CD" or "Cassette") > .not credited on the record anywhere, I don't think, but the band is > laswell's, with tony williams, jonas hellborg, malachi favors, steve > turre, ryuichi sakamoto & others.

He is credited on the vinyl version (as producer I think, I lost my copy), because that was where I first heard his name. I didn't know Ryuichci Sakamoto played on it too, the other names are new to me I'm afraid. Anyway, this is a really fantastic album, unless you hate the sound of John Lydon's voiiiiiiiice. It wanders from abrasive (but gorgeously produced) punk snarl through to delicate textural abstractions. I got it when I was about 15 or so (about 15 years or so ago :-) ) and I still think it's a very fine work. I don't normally enjoy lyrics with my music these days (which is largely why I got into underground electronic music when I was about 25), but again I still find the ones on that album worth listening to. While nothing specific is said on there, it was viewed at the time as a very aggressive political record and the BBC banned the second single after the first, 'Rise' became a surprise hit. Like the music, the lyrics tend to be quite abstract and subtle, and I think this is what gives them staying power - in fact they seem even more relevant in today's political climate. You could call it 'intelligent rant music'. Recommended. Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

for those that read autechre interviews but don't read urb magazine, here is a link to an autechre interview, entitled 'fuck you heroes', from the jul/aug 01 issue of urb. http://www.geocities.com/blownawish/Autechre/fuckyouheroes.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: "winblad.donald.ichiro" <narcoleptic_priest@yahoo.com>

quoted 2 lines what did you think of 'tabla beat science: tala

>what did you think of 'tabla beat science: tala >matrix'?

I quite liked it. Just a whole lot of tabla with some western rhythms coming in now and again, but not too obtrusively. I've certainly heard more impressive tabla compositions and the dub isn't quite as possessive as it could have been to make this a bit different. But the cover is nice. Tata, Tom. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Ethan wrote:

quoted 4 lines p.i.l. - album (or "CD" or "Cassette")

>p.i.l. - album (or "CD" or "Cassette") >.not credited on the record anywhere, I don't think, but the band is >laswell's, with tony williams, jonas hellborg, malachi favors, steve >turre, ryuichi sakamoto & others.

P.I.L is Bill Laswell's band?!?!? No, sahib, you are sadly mistaken. P.I.L. & Laswell have worked together (the World Party / P.I.L. duo comes to mind...), but Public Image Ltd. -- aka P.I.L. -- is and has been Johnny Lydon's band (formerly "Johnny Rotten" of the Sex Pistols) and not Laswell's since the late 70's. And the Generic Album (1985 -- yes, titled "Album" or "Cassette" or "CD" on the cover) is okay, but "The Flowers of Romance" (1981) is the real P.I.L. record everyone should own -- for the song "Four Enclosed Walls" if nothing else. (A song which really cries out for a DJ remix using the drum lines, if you ask me.) As far as Laswell goes, I think his Sacred System work with Nicky Skopelitis, Bernie Worrell & Jah Wobble is one of his more constantly interesting projects. And the Divination discs are good as well, although perhaps far too ambient for some. Never willing to forget IDMs punk roots- -Tim =================== Tim Rhodes memes@sil2k.org Eyes, Ears & Memes, SIL2K Strategic Improv Laboratories 2000 www.sil2k.org =================== --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Everyone always overlooks, IMHO, the better Lydon/Laswell collaboration, which was Time Zone's "World Destruction". Yes, a really simple, stoopid anti-war pop song.. but that beat! And you gotz Afrika, too. Chinn & Chapman couldn't have produced a Sweet song that punchy and glam sounding. "Generic" is good, though. And "Flowers of Romance" is certainly a classic -- if for anything, providing the best drum samples for making harder electronic music. But (IMHO) P.i.L.'s best moment will always be "Second Edition/Metal Box". The ultimate antidote for a bad mood. "First Issue" is a classic, too.. though there are tracks that can easily be skipped over. ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: Tim Rhodes <proftim@speakeasy.org>

quoted 6 lines p.i.l. - album (or "CD" or "Cassette")

> >p.i.l. - album (or "CD" or "Cassette") > >.not credited on the record anywhere, I don't think, but the band is > >laswell's, with tony williams, jonas hellborg, malachi favors, steve > >turre, ryuichi sakamoto & others. > > P.I.L is Bill Laswell's band?!?!? No, sahib, you are sadly mistaken.

I was always under the impression that PIL was just John Lydon, and that the musicians varied from album to album. So I took the above to mean that Lydon worked with Laswell's band for that particular PIL album. Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Ethan Clauset wrote:

quoted 2 lines that's what I meant, yes. of course PiL is lydon's band/brand .. but for

> that's what I meant, yes. of course PiL is lydon's band/brand .. but for > that album, the musicians are all laswell-associates.

It is a dark day when guys like Malachi Favors and Tony Williams are considered to be "Laswell associates" (though I guess they brought it on themselves in some way). -rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines It is a dark day when guys like Malachi Favors and Tony Williams are

> It is a dark day when guys like Malachi Favors and Tony Williams are > considered to be "Laswell associates" (though I guess they brought it on > themselves in some way).

I heartily agree with your first point (the sin of ignorance of one of the greatest drummers there's been and of a great bassist is almost unforgivable) and strenuously disagree with you on your second Rob - have you never got mixed up with the wrong people? Never held a dodgy opinion? My partner's car was written off recently when someone smashed into the back of her when she was waiting stationary at a red light - was it her fault just because she was sitting in a car? (...) All the best, Colin. _____________________________ "... and life is a song sung low and cool to rouse the gentle spirit." (Jeff Noon)

quoted 10 lines From: "R. Lim" <rlim@escape.com>

> From: "R. Lim" <rlim@escape.com> > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:47:13 -0400 (EDT) > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Re: bill laswell > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Ethan Clauset wrote: > >> that's what I meant, yes. of course PiL is lydon's band/brand .. but for >> that album, the musicians are all laswell-associates. >

quoted 8 lines -rob

> > -rob > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Colin Buttimer wrote:

quoted 7 lines It is a dark day when guys like Malachi Favors and Tony Williams are

> > It is a dark day when guys like Malachi Favors and Tony Williams are > > considered to be "Laswell associates" (though I guess they brought it on > > themselves in some way). > I heartily agree with your first point (the sin of ignorance of one of the > greatest drummers there's been and of a great bassist is almost > unforgivable) and strenuously disagree with you on your second Rob - have > you never got mixed up with the wrong people? Never held a dodgy opinion? My

Settle down, lad. Whatever their reasons for getting mixed up with the Laz, I'm sure they are men enough to accept responsibility for their decisions (as well they should). I never said that their associations in the 80s detracted from their considerable contributions to the existing body of music (and really, is there any jazz musician who escaped the 80s unscathed?) -rob ps- for the record, I have in fact, NEVER held a dodgy opinion. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hello Rob

quoted 1 line Settle down, lad.

> Settle down, lad.

Er. I thought the '(...)' at the bottom of my email would happily signify irony - can't bring myself to use emoticons, you see.

quoted 2 lines (and really, is there any jazz musician who escaped the 80s

> (and really, is there any jazz musician who escaped the 80s > unscathed?)

Ooh um. Ronald Shannon Jackson? John Zorn? Ornette Coleman? Anthony Braxton? Miles Davis (except DooBop)? Herbie Hancock (er except Dis is Da Drum), Sun Ra?

quoted 1 line ps- for the record, I have in fact, NEVER held a dodgy opinion.

> ps- for the record, I have in fact, NEVER held a dodgy opinion.

Now I'd have to say your question definitely indicates a dodgy opinion... _____________________________ "... and life is a song sung low and cool to rouse the gentle spirit." (Jeff Noon) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Colin Buttimer wrote:

quoted 5 lines (and really, is there any jazz musician who escaped the 80s

> > (and really, is there any jazz musician who escaped the 80s > > unscathed?) > Ooh um. Ronald Shannon Jackson? John Zorn? Ornette Coleman? Anthony Braxton? > Miles Davis (except DooBop)? Herbie Hancock (er except Dis is Da Drum), Sun > Ra?

I think your exceptions kind of illustrate my point, which is that the 80s were a time in which a lot of jazz musicians got involved in rather dodgy endeavors (it was also the decade of the saxophone quartet fad, but that's neither here there- and yes, I know that a handful of musicians made some fairly good records in this style; I personally feel Braxton should be credited with inspiring this, just as he was for the late 70s burst of unbearable solo saxophone records). At any rate, take for example most jazz records on Gramavision, or the bulk of the Soul Note and Black Saint discographies of the middle-late part of the decade. On the underground front, the 80s marked the emergence of the "downtown" scene and related satellites, which had some good ideas (c.f. the early releases on the Bay Area Metalanguage label) that were promptly run into the ground in favor of pan-everything eclecticism and the dreaded world-beat influence. By the way, using auteurs like Braxton, Sun Ra and Ornette as paragons of a jazz trend is a little misleading, don't you think? (and by the way, I don't like Zorn). It's like using Confield as an example of why IDM isn't dead (when in fact, it demonstrates that IDM is dead by virtue of its existence, because it's not really recognizably IDM). -rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

the hell?? On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, R. Lim wrote:

quoted 6 lines It's like using Confield as an example of why IDM isn't

> It's like using Confield as an example of why IDM isn't > dead (when in fact, it demonstrates that IDM is dead by virtue of its > existence, because it's not really recognizably IDM). > > -rob >

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