IDM Mailing Archive

2001-06-06 19:53brian albers>Shouldn't there be a rule against selling CDR's on Ebay? > There should be and of course

From:: brian albers <brianalbers@hotmail.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:53:32
Subject:: Re: [idm] Ebay Madness / cd-rs

quoted 2 lines Shouldn't there be a rule against selling CDR's on Ebay?

>Shouldn't there be a rule against selling CDR's on Ebay? >

There should be and of course there is. But just for argument's sake- I might be a huge Bola fan, but I'm never going to find a complete set (or incomplete) of the Shapes 12"s. So what are my options outside of buying or trading for a cdr if I ever want to hear this music? 1. Napster or similar program- debate as much as you want, but mp3 is never going to sound absolutely as good as a vinyl or cd master. 2. Emusic or similar service- probably my best bet and their catalogs are extensive, but they're not gonna have everything. 3. hope the label re-releases it- I understand that labels might not have the money to make thousands of copies of a release especially when they're just starting out and also if they are making both cds and vinyl. And I understand that they won't have the time or money once they get bigger and have more bands and projects on their plate to go back and re-release stuff. But who knows if I would've ever heard the "Richard Coleman Devine" EP if Schematic hadn't re-pressed it a couple months back. But at the same time, nobody but the label and/or the artist should profit from the sale of their product. Then again, I don't think any artist make music for people NOT to hear (unless you're the Residents, then all bets are off). To take it a step further, if you did allow the sale of cd-rs, then not only would the official releases end up on cdr, but the bootlegs and unauthorized remixes as well. But then again as someone else posted, aren't many of the songs on the MASK series unofficial remixes anyway? And those were sold by the label for profit, were they not? Which then begs the question 'Well why didn't I just buy it when it was originally released?' I wish I could afford all the records I wanted. I wish I knew which records were available. I wish the internet/physical record stores actually carried them. So in the end, the sale of cd-rs shouldn't be tolerated. But I think there has to be some consideration to the fact that some of these releases are so rare/limited that it is unreasonable to think that I as a regular consumer I don't have a chance of getting this music any other way. On a semi-related note- I saw at a local store the Autechre vinyl repressings. Tri Repetae was 20 bucks. Incunabula was 20 bucks. Is there a reason that Chiastic Slide was 25 bucks at the same store? Just a buch of hypothetical questions. Sorry if it feels like Ethics class all over again. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-06 20:12Adam Piontek--- brian albers <brianalbers@hotmail.com> wrote: > I don't > think any artist make > musi

From:: Adam Piontek <apiontek@yahoo.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: [idm] Ebay Madness / cd-rs (beating a dead horse)
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Ebay Madness / cd-rs

--- brian albers <brianalbers@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 5 lines I don't

> I don't > think any artist make > music for people NOT to hear (unless you're the > Residents, then all bets are > off).

Certainly many artists create not for an audience. Many artists keep work for themselves or decide later on that they would prefer people not pay attention to some earlier work. If an artist or label chooses to make a certain number of something, that's the amount they are willing to let loose into the world.

quoted 8 lines So in the end, the sale of cd-rs shouldn't be

> So in the end, the sale of cd-rs shouldn't be > tolerated. But I think there > has to be some consideration to the fact that some > of these releases are so > rare/limited that I > as a regular consumer > don't have a chance of getting this music any other > way.

You don't have a right to the music. You have no rights here whatsoever, until you pay the creator. That's kinda the whole point. I used to relatively share your point of view, but recent events in my life have led me to see that an artist has full rights over their creation. It's the "fan" attitude that assumes, because one wishes it were this way, that the artist is creating for them and certainly fans have the right to know, hear, see, etc. everything related to the artist. This is wrong. You have only the rights that the artist grants to you, just like you don't have the right to punch me in the mouth just because you really really want to. If the artist or label bestows 100 of X upon the world, that's how much right the world has to X. End of story. Of course things are a little more complicated, but that's basically how I see it. -Lord High Damek, Ambassador of Love __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-06 21:25eric@synthesizer.org>Which then begs the question 'Well why didn't I just buy it when it was >originally relea

From:: <eric@synthesizer.org>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: [idm] Ebay Madness / cd-rs
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Ebay Madness / cd-rs

quoted 4 lines Which then begs the question 'Well why didn't I just buy it when it was

>Which then begs the question 'Well why didn't I just buy it when it was >originally released?' I wish I could afford all the records I wanted. I wish >I knew which records were available. I wish the internet/physical record >stores actually carried them.

That's quite some sense of entitlement there. Surely you aren't arguing that you should be able to own things you can't afford, can't find, or (even!) don't know about.

quoted 3 lines I saw at a local store the Autechre vinyl repressings. Tri Repetae was 20

>I saw at a local store the Autechre vinyl repressings. Tri Repetae was 20 >bucks. Incunabula was 20 bucks. Is there a reason that Chiastic Slide was 25 >bucks at the same store?

3 records vs. 2? -eric onnow: the melvins, "electroretard" (man's ruin) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-07 02:39Guy Elden, Jr.> just starting out and also if they are making both cds and vinyl. And I > understand tha

From:: Guy Elden, Jr. <guyjr@gt.ed.net>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:39:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:: Re: [idm] Ebay Madness / cd-rs
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Ebay Madness / cd-rs

quoted 5 lines just starting out and also if they are making both cds and vinyl. And I

> just starting out and also if they are making both cds and vinyl. And I > understand that they won't have the time or money once they get bigger and > have more bands and projects on their plate to go back and re-release stuff. > But who knows if I would've ever heard the "Richard Coleman Devine" EP if > Schematic hadn't re-pressed it a couple months back.

Actually, that's exactly how the big record labels (WB, Sony, BMG, etc) can sustain releasing older releases in stores. Newer artists generate, I would guess, at least 75% of their revenue. The huge profits they reap do at some level get turned into producing backcatalog CDs at least... vinyl is admittedly rarer to see re-released. Unfortunately, big labels still represent 99% crap (IMO). Smaller labels are wear the emerging talent go to, and it is there that much of the most innovative music of the time can be found.

quoted 4 lines On a semi-related note-

> On a semi-related note- > I saw at a local store the Autechre vinyl repressings. Tri Repetae was 20 > bucks. Incunabula was 20 bucks. Is there a reason that Chiastic Slide was 25 > bucks at the same store?

Yes, they think somebody out there is willing to spend $25 on Chiastic Slide 12". I'm certainly not (it all sounds just fine on CD thank you very much), but if they're right, they'll have made $5 more for thinking so. Now this does assume that Warp didn't charge an extra $5 to the store for that particular release. In the end, it's a calculated gamble, as most pricing is. -- jr --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-06 21:39Static Beats> But just for argument's sake- > > I might be a huge Bola fan, but I'm never going to fin

From:: Static Beats <static@staticbeats.com>
To:: brian albers <brianalbers@hotmail.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:39:29 -0700
Subject:: Re: [idm] Ebay Madness / cd-rs

quoted 4 lines But just for argument's sake-

> But just for argument's sake- > > I might be a huge Bola fan, but I'm never going to find a complete set (or > incomplete) of the Shapes 12"s. So what are my options outside of buying

quoted 2 lines trading for a cdr if I ever want to hear this music?

> trading for a cdr if I ever want to hear this music? >

Regardless I think there is a *huge* difference when we're talking about someone auctioning of these items to the highest bidder. This ain't Napster of file sharing. This is rampant greed of the worst kind. Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com Electronic Music For The Mind --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2001-06-06 23:18Brian flanaganactually, no one got paid for the mask releases..... bri >To take it a step further, if yo

From:: Brian flanagan <studiomoo@madasafish.com>
To:: brian albers <brianalbers@hotmail.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 00:18:19 +0100
Subject:: Re: [idm] Ebay Madness / cd-rs

actually, no one got paid for the mask releases..... bri

quoted 1 line To take it a step further, if you did allow the sale of cd-rs, then not

>To take it a step further, if you did allow the sale of cd-rs, then not

only

quoted 1 line would the official releases end up on cdr, but the bootlegs and

>would the official releases end up on cdr, but the bootlegs and

unauthorized

quoted 6 lines remixes as well. But then again as someone else posted, aren't many of the

>remixes as well. But then again as someone else posted, aren't many of the >songs on the MASK series unofficial remixes anyway? And those were sold by >the label for profit, were they not? > >Which then begs the question 'Well why didn't I just buy it when it was >originally released?' I wish I could afford all the records I wanted. I

wish

quoted 6 lines I knew which records were available. I wish the internet/physical record

>I knew which records were available. I wish the internet/physical record >stores actually carried them. > >So in the end, the sale of cd-rs shouldn't be tolerated. But I think there >has to be some consideration to the fact that some of these releases are so >rare/limited that it is unreasonable to think that I as a regular consumer

quoted 5 lines don't have a chance of getting this music any other way.

>don't have a chance of getting this music any other way. > >On a semi-related note- >I saw at a local store the Autechre vinyl repressings. Tri Repetae was 20 >bucks. Incunabula was 20 bucks. Is there a reason that Chiastic Slide was

quoted 12 lines bucks at the same store?

>bucks at the same store? > >Just a buch of hypothetical questions. >Sorry if it feels like Ethics class all over again. >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Re: [idm] Ebay Madness / cd-rs