IDM Mailing Archive

leafcutter <leafcutter.john@virgin.net> wrote:

quoted 1 line Is IDM art though?

>Is IDM art though?

aw heck -- it ain't no chair nor a hammer nor a pack of gum. it's culture. it's music, which has, since ancient times, been recognized as one of the arts. In short, there's no way for it NOT to be art. whether it's GOOD art or not, you be the judge. whether it relates to some "high art" tradition, like the classical music tradition or the modern artworld of museums and galleries, that's another question. obviously a bunch of IDM artists have this or that in common with various composers who do the concert hall/opera house gigs, but I don't think the critical and academic apparatus that surrounds classical music is particularly appropriate for most IDM. IDM, which is clearly derived from popular forms, is essentially less rigorous but also less pretentious than most contemporary classical music. Personally, I can't stand most of the crap I hear coming out of classical music schools these days, so I'm satisfied that IDM is more of a "middlebrow" art. gets especially slippery when music meets the contemporary visual arts, as that scene has been making a concerted attack on the divisions between "high/elitist" and "low/popular" art for about a century. Warhol promoting the Velvets is part of why we think they're "art". so yeah, I mean probably most IDM has as much claim to being "high art" as most of the stuff in a contemporary gallery, but who cares? Galleries are for selling expensive objects to rich people...I prefer buying a cheap copy at a record store personally. But, that said, certain IDM'ers have a foot in the visual art world -- for instance, Thomas Brinkmann, Terre Thaemlitz and Marcus Popp --their concepts and presentation are informed by trends and ideas in the visual artworld. Doesn't mean that they have more claim to being art than musicians quite outside the artworld, they're just a certain trip. k --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Got this one last night and was pleased yet surprised to see some diferences in the artwork, (hehe) I compared the 2 sleeves and noticed this one was folded wrong (perhaps the printer fucked up, it's happened to me b4, bastards!....colors are a bit more intense and the varnish didn't come through as good....I was hoping it would be a bit different since our old one is so valuable...had to get it though, color vinyl looses sound quality over the years,. this one will be officially framed and posted on my wall.... :) thank you dr. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"kurt(bway.net)" wrote:

quoted 11 lines obviously a bunch of IDM artists have this or that in common with

> > obviously a bunch of IDM artists have this or that in common with > various composers who do the concert hall/opera house gigs, but I > don't think the critical and academic apparatus that surrounds > classical music is particularly appropriate for most IDM. IDM, which > is clearly derived from popular forms, is essentially less rigorous > but also less pretentious than most contemporary classical music. > Personally, I can't stand most of the crap I hear coming out of > classical music schools these days, so I'm satisfied that IDM is more > of a "middlebrow" art. >

Just because someone is a supposedly 'trained' composer doesn't mean they know more about creating great and lasting art/music than anyone else. (Take it from me, I'm doing a graduate degree right now...) I think it's a mistake to accept this high/low art dichotomy in the first place, I don't believe it helps us to understand what's going on with different genres of music. Personally I think there is more important contemporary work happening in IDM than the academic world, so it doesn't make sense to me to say that music coming out of conservatories is by definition 'higher' in some sense. John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"kurt(bway.net)" wrote:

quoted 3 lines I think it's a mistake to accept this high/low art dichotomy in the

> >I think it's a mistake to accept this high/low art dichotomy in the > >first place, I don't believe it helps us to understand what's going on > >with different genres of music.

quoted 3 lines I don't know. I'm no snob. but having spent a lot of time with

> I don't know. I'm no snob. but having spent a lot of time with > electronica in the last couple years, i'd have to say that most of it > isn't built to last particularly, it's casual, disposable culture.

I agree -- but what does that have to do with high/low art? I think the 'disposable' nature of much electronic music may have more to do with the accelerated speed at which our culture is changing, as well as the 'open form' characteristic of many tracks -- by which I mean that your average techno track isn't really a composition in itself, it's meant as construction material for a DJ to use. Having said that, though, there are certainly IDM/techno/drum'n'bass whatever recordings that I would consider 'classic' and that I expect to continue selling for a long time to come. I love some of Derrick May's earliest Detroit tracks for example, and still play them at gigs sometimes.

quoted 5 lines I

> I > don't know, I guess the same is true of a lot of stuff in the > classical world, though, at its best, that world has a lot more > intellectual support (teachers, books, critics, history, theory, etc) > which can prod people towards more complex achievements.

I dislike most of the music that comes out of that world because it's 100% head music in most cases, while great dance music addresses the whole person, mind and body. In the case of 'classical' music, this is a reflection of the mind/body split which has troubled Western civilization for centuries... I'm really interested in the crossover which seems to be having at the far end of IDM and academia, though. I attended a recent meeting of SEAMUS (the Society for Electro-Acoustic Music in the US) and had one of my abstract pieces played there in March, it was interesting to see just how little difference there is between some of the music coming from electronic composers in academia and recent Autechre, for example. It seems to be taboo to use a regular beat in academia, however... John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down to its most fundamental level, just IDM in disguise? -- me __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 16:32 18.05.2001 -0700, you wrote: I really ask myself what the fundamental level of any art is. If you take visual arts into consideration you have artists like Josef Beuys and Salvador Dali for example, both contributing to modern art at their time in the most opposite way imaginable. It is all art. The same thing to modern music: Steve Reich and autechre. Very different in style but to some extend parallel. So what is the basic idea of art in general? I think each of us has to answer that question to himself. An overall definition is quite difficult, I think. What is art to one could be junk to another. One thing all art has in common is the fact that it reaches public somehow. (with visual means in the museum, in galleries and at home, or as an auditive presentation on vinyl or CD - everywhere music is played for dance, background ambience etc.) (Any) Art cannot be IDM, I think. There are too many manifestations of art anyhow. And not all art makes you dance I'm afraid. But to me all IDM is art because it does something to people. Even if music evokes your disgust it lets you feel something and this is what I think art is all about. Anything that makes me think different from the everyday train of thoughts is art to me, could even be TV commercials or elevator jazz(in the most extreme case ;)). The most important aspect of art is, if it is interesting somehow. What made Man Rays "ready mades" iteresting was the fact that he put everyday things in a completely different surrounding. Same to Matthew Herbert using all kind of sounds and noise in, and as music. To me there must be something different in it, something new, creative, weird, intelligent or whatever feeling or thought you could imagine... And it does not matter if I like it or not to make it art. Hmm, even Adams posting might be art to me because I gave it a thought... Maybe this not at all too plausible but this is what I think personally ;). Best wishes to all of you, Peter

quoted 2 lines No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down to

>No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down to >its most fundamental level, just IDM in disguise?

...feel free to visit: http://www.peter-spiess.de/ "After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music" (A.Huxley)... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Um, this was a joke post... --- "Peter F. Spiess" <info@peter-spiess.de> wrote:

quoted 3 lines I really ask myself what the fundamental level of

> > I really ask myself what the fundamental level of > any art is. If you take visual arts into

[blah blah blah...]

quoted 19 lines At 16:32 18.05.2001 -0700, Adam wrote:

> > At 16:32 18.05.2001 -0700, Adam wrote: > >No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down > to > >its most fundamental level, just IDM in disguise? > > > > > > > > ...feel free to visit: http://www.peter-spiess.de/ > "After silence, that which comes nearest > to expressing the inexpressible is Music" > (A.Huxley)... > > >

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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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At 06:41 19.05.2001 -0700, you wrote: It seems that your posting took me off much too far. Even if meant as a joke it seemed worth a thought to me. Sorry for the bandwith, if all the "blah", as you name it, bothered you.

quoted 14 lines Um, this was a joke post...

>Um, this was a joke post... > >--- "Peter F. Spiess" <info@peter-spiess.de> wrote: >> >> I really ask myself what the fundamental level of >> any art is. If you take visual arts into >[blah blah blah...] >> >> At 16:32 18.05.2001 -0700, Adam wrote: >> >No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down >> to >> >its most fundamental level, just IDM in disguise? >> >>

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Did you know you can set up filters in your email client to automatically filter out messages from undesirable senders? That's right! That means you can send any twink from the IDM-L you don't happen to like directly into the shitcan! Just a thought. m@2zo www.thechisa.com "Life is Suffering. Art imitates Life. Imitation is the highest form of Flattery. Flattery will get you Nowhere. Therefore: Art is Suffering on the road the Nowhere." -- Matt Tuozzo --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i think you have it backwards In a message dated 5/18/01 7:33:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, apiontek@yahoo.com writes:

quoted 5 lines No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down to

> No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down to > its most fundamental level, just IDM in disguise? > > -- >

No, that would be: ?esiugsid ni MDI tsuj ,level ltnemadnuf tsom sti ot nwod ti liob uoy nehw ,tra lla t'nsI - yllaer ,oN ?MDI trA sI :tcejbuS (but don't trust me, I'm a carrot) --- CAPOIIEE@aol.com wrote:

quoted 9 lines i think you have it backwards

> i think you have it backwards > > In a message dated 5/18/01 7:33:02 PM EDT, > apiontek@yahoo.com writes: > > > > No, really - Isn't all art, when you boil it down > to > > its most fundamental level, just IDM in disguise?

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This thread needs to die. -- ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- omz beautamous loaf recordings http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org