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It's actually not that off-topic, but I engaged in a little discussion with a fellow music geek yesterday and he claimed that jungle (which later morphed into dnb) was a direct offshoot of the Rotterdam sound. He claims that jungle was basically an incarnation of Rotterdam garage house. Ofcourse, I always thought jungle had its roots in ragga (hence the name, "jungle"), Detroit, etc. but he argued that jungle was the bastard of the house scene that was then being played in Britain and the Rotterdam sound which they began to incorporate (they took the idea to up the tempo from said scene). So admittedly, I'm not too familiar with the Rotterdam records and I was interested in checking them out to see for myself if there is actually a connection. Recommendations are not only welcomed, but encouraged! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I'd always been under the impression that Jungle came from the hardcore breakbeat / rave scene in London around '89 '90 and was heavily influenced by Londons Dub/Reggae scene. Indeed many of my "proto-jungle" records are from this era and later. Tracks from the likes of 2 Bad Mice, The Ragga Twins, Acen, Altern 8, Shut Up & Dance, Sonz of a Loop da Loop era, Lots of artist on XL Recordings, Suburban Base etc The Rotterdam sound I always associate with Happy Hardcore and Gabber... could be wrong but that was always my take. -i --- ralph isis <ralph_isis@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 23 lines It's actually not that off-topic, but I engaged in a little discussion with

> It's actually not that off-topic, but I engaged in a little discussion with > a fellow music geek yesterday and he claimed that jungle (which later > morphed into dnb) was a direct offshoot of the Rotterdam sound. He claims > that jungle was basically an incarnation of Rotterdam garage house. > Ofcourse, I always thought jungle had its roots in ragga (hence the name, > "jungle"), Detroit, etc. but he argued that jungle was the bastard of the > house scene that was then being played in Britain and the Rotterdam sound > which they began to incorporate (they took the idea to up the tempo from > said scene). > > So admittedly, I'm not too familiar with the Rotterdam records and I was > interested in checking them out to see for myself if there is actually a > connection. > > Recommendations are not only welcomed, but encouraged! > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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jungle and d/b derives from the evolution of the "dark side" and ragga elements of 92 UK hardcore that predominantly came from hackney looped breaks got faster, but just looped "chopping breaks" added more chaos minimalising detail in the beats came in and stripped the machine gun breaks to "two step", and the syle split, as it has many times since and just as an addition - the prototype drum and bass never had big breakdowns or stereotypical "E rush moments" as, some of the original "dark" nights were fucking heavily populated by real hackney rudeboys, and when people stopped dancing, people started staring at each other...... house styles came in way later, and produced UK garage, or speed garage as it failed as originally before the media re packaged it as the next big thing B --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

But didn't the proto-junglists get their idea of upping the tempo from Rotterdam? It's funny that you mention hip-hop, because Wimbish and Le Blanc were responsible for the backing tracks on a lot of material released by Sugarhill Records as early as 1979, including Grandmaster Flash's "The Message." By the time they hooked up with Sherwood & Mcdonald (to form Tackhead) they stormed Britain with electro-funk and their influence in the so-called roots of hip-hop is probably what brought house-like structures to Britain in the first place. Atleast that's what I understand. I think it's clear that jungle had its roots in house and ragga, but I am also coming to the conclusion that perhaps the Rotterdam influence has been played down, so maybe that dude I talked to was right? Another interesting angle is that house didn't jump directly from Detroit and Chicago to Britain. It arguably first went to mainland Europe *then* it hit Britain. So that's also another possibility where the Rotterdam sound came from? And we all know that house was the bastard child of funk (via Parliament) and Kraftwerk, so it's no wonder the Germans fell in love with it. Anyway, that's my rant...

quoted 14 lines Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:07:24 +0100

>Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:07:24 +0100 >To: <idm@hyperreal.org> >From: "somatics" <somatics@ntlworld.com> >Subject: Re: [idm] OT: Rotterdam sound >Message-ID: <00e701c0d79e$4cc5a600$e52efc3e@oemcomputer> > >jungle is the bastard son of uk hip hop & breaks , simple as that . >it progressed from early 90's uk "hardcore" which fused breaks & Belgium / >German techno influences . one of the first releases of "jungle" was on a >label called IBIZA records. total drum n bass. > >somatics@ntlworld.com >http://somatics.c8.com >icq # 110698430

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[ralph isis <ralph_isis@hotmail.com>]

quoted 2 lines But didn't the proto-junglists get their idea of upping the tempo from

> But didn't the proto-junglists get their idea of upping the tempo from > Rotterdam?

Nah... If you listen to a lot of the hardcore rave crap (like Zoo Rave 1), it's basically jungle with a flat beat kick instead of twosteppin bass.

quoted 3 lines I think it's clear that jungle had its roots in house and ragga, but I am

> I think it's clear that jungle had its roots in house and ragga, but I am > also coming to the conclusion that perhaps the Rotterdam influence has been > played down, so maybe that dude I talked to was right?

I think that Rotterdam influenced hoovers and such in the darker jungle, but that's about it. And maybe its influence on UK Hardcore also came through. I'd say jungle came from 4Hero, 2 Bad Mice and A Guy Called Gerald... Anxiety was probably the first jungle tune. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@curiousnetworks.com http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org