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Re: [idm] musique concrete question

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◇ merged from 2 subjects: (atari video) http://www.newvenue.com/archives/feature44/ · musique concrete question
2000-11-08 23:04Re: [idm] musique concrete question
├─ 2000-11-09 00:13Guillaume Grenier Re: [idm] musique concrete question
└─ 2000-11-09 18:29Rustin Householter Re: [idm] musique concrete question
2000-11-08 23:22zachary mastoon Re: [idm] musique concrete question
├─ 2000-11-08 23:48Yonnie Lui Re: [idm] musique concrete question
└─ 2000-12-01 00:12R. Lim Re: [idm] musique concrete question
└─ 2001-01-28 04:18coleco.boy [idm] Re:(atari video) http://www.newvenue.com/archives/feature44/
2000-11-08 23:25Jean-Francois Blanchette Re: [idm] musique concrete question
2000-11-09 00:28Giles Dickerson [idm] musique concrete question
└─ 2000-11-08 23:54Guillaume Grenier Re: [idm] musique concrete question
└─ 2000-11-09 00:48Jeff Waye Re: [idm] musique concrete question
└─ 2000-11-09 05:37fj Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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2000-11-08 23:04AnalogueSkin@aol.com<< Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I absolutely have to liste
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Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:04:55 EST
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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<< Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I absolutely have to listen to to get the musique concrete feel? >> I am sure this question is going to inspire a weeks worth of debate as to who is more seminal in this genre, but here's my contribution: Arne Nordheim Karlheinz Stockhausen Luc Ferrari Iannis Xenakis I would suggest seeking out Nordheim's "electric" (on rune grammofon records) before anything else. Truely a sublime album and not to be ignored. The rest of list is probably standard fare for the musique concrete crowd but they are all quite accomplished nonetheless. dmt. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-11-09 00:13Guillaume GrenierOn 08/11/00 18:04, AnalogueSkin@aol.com said in living color: > I am sure this question is
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Guillaume Grenier
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idm
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Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:13:47 -0500
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
permalink · <B62F566B.1259F%gollum@videotron.ca>
On 08/11/00 18:04, AnalogueSkin@aol.com said in living color:
quoted 12 lines I am sure this question is going to inspire a weeks worth of debate as to> I am sure this question is going to inspire a weeks worth of debate as to > who is more seminal in this genre, but here's my contribution: > > Arne Nordheim > Karlheinz Stockhausen > Luc Ferrari > Iannis Xenakis > > I would suggest seeking out Nordheim's "electric" (on rune grammofon > records) before anything else. Truely a sublime album and not to be ignored. > The rest of list is probably standard fare for the musique concrete crowd > but they are all quite accomplished nonetheless.
I also love Nordheim. He really deserves more notoriety than he currently has... Stockhausen has also made interesting stuff but he's generally classified in a school (the Cologne school, solely based on tone generators and primitive electronic instruments, at first) that was opposed to musique concrète (Paris school). Although he was indeed among the first to blend concrete elements and electronically-generated sounds in "Gesand der Junglinge" and thus breaking the barriers between the two camps. g. -- Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca in space there is no north in space there is no south in space there is no east in space there is no west --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-11-09 18:29Rustin HouseholterAt 06:04 PM 11/8/00 -0500, AnalogueSkin@aol.com wrote: ><< Could people throw back maybe t
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Rustin Householter
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Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:29:28 -0600
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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At 06:04 PM 11/8/00 -0500, AnalogueSkin@aol.com wrote:
quoted 2 lines << Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I absolutely><< Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I absolutely >have to listen to to get the musique concrete feel? >>
How can you forget... Pierre Schaeffer (genre jedi) Todd Dockstader Edgar Varese (graddaddy of airplane music) These guys are my favorites... There you go IDEEEEEEM fockers!!! Rusty --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-11-08 23:22zachary mastoon>Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I >absolutely have to listen
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zachary mastoon
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Wed, 08 Nov 2000 17:22:51 CST
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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quoted 5 lines Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I>Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I >absolutely have to listen to to get the musique concrete feel? This is a >genre I have not explored and I have a neighbor that seems like he knows >what he's talking about and wantsa to share, just want to make sure he's >not spouting steam.
steve reich "early works" (includes, "come out," "it's gonna rain," etc.) i forgot the name of the compilation (i feel like it's on caipirinha)but it includes pierre schaeffer, pierre henri, luc ferrari, and other cats. that's a good one. a real cool record that's not QUITE musique concrete but just came to mind is "I am sitting in a room" by alvin lucier. he records a lil speech describing what the track is about, plays it back in the room, records that, plays THAT back in the room, etc. etc. until all you hear are "the resonant frequencies of the room [reinforcing themselves]." not musique concrete but some cool ass shit with tape. :) umm... anyone else have any ideas? z _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-11-08 23:48Yonnie Lui>a real cool record that's not QUITE musique concrete but just came to mind >is "I am sitt
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Yonnie Lui
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zachary mastoon
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Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:48:22 -0800
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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quoted 6 lines a real cool record that's not QUITE musique concrete but just came to mind>a real cool record that's not QUITE musique concrete but just came to mind >is "I am sitting in a room" by alvin lucier. he records a lil speech >describing what the track is about, plays it back in the room, records that, >plays THAT back in the room, etc. etc. until all you hear are "the resonant >frequencies of the room [reinforcing themselves]." >not musique concrete but some cool ass shit with tape. :)
it's cool! Ryuichi Sakamoto opened his BTTB gig with the above alvin lucier's narration and looped it for about 10 mins! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-01 00:12R. LimOn Wed, 8 Nov 2000, zachary mastoon wrote: > steve reich "early works" (includes, "come ou
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R. Lim
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Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:12:23 -0500 (EST)
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, zachary mastoon wrote:
quoted 1 line steve reich "early works" (includes, "come out," "it's gonna> steve reich "early works" (includes, "come out," "it's gonna rain," etc.)
Those particular works are great, though not concrete.
quoted 6 lines a real cool record that's not QUITE musique concrete but just came to mind> a real cool record that's not QUITE musique concrete but just came to mind > is "I am sitting in a room" by alvin lucier. he records a lil speech > describing what the track is about, plays it back in the room, records that, > plays THAT back in the room, etc. etc. until all you hear are "the resonant > frequencies of the room [reinforcing themselves]." > not musique concrete but some cool ass shit with tape. :)
Not really cool ass shit with tape, more like cool ass shit with physical space. If you liked the Lovely version, you'll flip over an earlier version on a comp called "With a Minimum of Means" that was released a few years ago. I think the Wire did a pretty good primer on concrete/early electronics stuff. If I had to boil it down to a handful of records that are still availablem I'd probably pick the following three: o Iannis Xenakis- Electronic Music CD or Electro-Acoustic Music LP (unbelievable compositions with great attention to detail) o Pierre Henry- Variations on a Door and a Sigh/Veil of Orpheus CD on Harmonia Mundi (the former work a seminal examination on the expressive language of concrete, the latter a barn-burning symphonic work) o something by Francois Bayle or Bernard Parmegiani- either Erosphere or Son Vitesse-Lumiere by the former or Violostries by the latter. Most "electronic" sounding of the group & demonstrates the subtle, shimmering magic of their style in full force. Bayle was head of the GRM in Paris, which has been an epicenter of amazing electroacoustic works for decades. There's also an interesting item recently reissued by the GRM called "Solege de l'Objet Sonore" which is like an audio example book on musique concrete theory and execution. It comes with a tri-lingual book and is a pretty necessary listen to anybody who's serious about appreciating the artform. Borrow it from a friend and be amazed. -rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-01-28 04:18coleco.boythese guys did it... http://www.goldenshower.gs/ dave rout toronto -----------------------
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Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:18:55 -0500
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[idm] Re:(atari video) http://www.newvenue.com/archives/feature44/
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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these guys did it... http://www.goldenshower.gs/ dave rout toronto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-11-08 23:25Jean-Francois BlanchetteOuh!! i'm interested too. I'll throw the first name but i'm not sure everybody will agree
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Wed, 08 Nov 2000 23:25:58 GMT
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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Ouh!! i'm interested too. I'll throw the first name but i'm not sure everybody will agree that it's so "concrete" (do you english speaking people say concrete like concrete wall or concr?te like we say?) but i really like the Pierre Henry stuff , especially "la reine verte" and "variation pour une porte et un soupir" the other side is "messe pour le temps pr?sent" wich is a rock'n'roll meets moog thing: Highly recommended, i wish i had it on cd as my vinyl is kinda old and worn out. I could also recommend Edgar Var?se 's electronic stuff.
quoted 20 lines From: "Giles Dickerson" <gdickerson@digitas.com>>From: "Giles Dickerson" <gdickerson@digitas.com> >To: idm <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: [idm] musique concrete question >Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 17:28:51 -0700 > >Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I >absolutely have to listen to to get the musique concrete feel? This is a >genre I have not explored and I have a neighbor that seems like he knows >what he's talking about and wantsa to share, just want to make sure he's >not spouting steam. > >Looking for some enjoyable reccomendations... > >// giles. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
_________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-11-09 00:28Giles DickersonCould people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I absolutely have to listen t
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Giles Dickerson
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idm
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Wed, 08 Nov 2000 17:28:51 -0700
Subject:
[idm] musique concrete question
permalink · <3A09EFC4.2A3A435B@digitas.com>
Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I absolutely have to listen to to get the musique concrete feel? This is a genre I have not explored and I have a neighbor that seems like he knows what he's talking about and wantsa to share, just want to make sure he's not spouting steam. Looking for some enjoyable reccomendations... // giles. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-11-08 23:54Guillaume GrenierOn 08/11/00 19:28, Giles Dickerson said in living color: > Could people throw back maybe t
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Guillaume Grenier
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Wed, 08 Nov 2000 18:54:22 -0500
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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[idm] musique concrete question
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On 08/11/00 19:28, Giles Dickerson said in living color:
quoted 5 lines Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I> Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I > absolutely have to listen to to get the musique concrete feel? This is a > genre I have not explored and I have a neighbor that seems like he knows > what he's talking about and wantsa to share, just want to make sure he's > not spouting steam.
Strange, I've been posting stuff on this subject in various forums in the last few days... It all depends on what you classify as "musique concrète"... The titles in the following list take the term in a very broad sense (electroacoustic music somewhat related to a "French aesthetic"). It is a bit random (what currently pops up in my mind), except for the first two. 2 essential masterpieces: - "L'Apocalypse de Jean" (Pierre Henry) - "De Natura Sonorum" (Bernard Parmegiani) -> Unfortunately out of print - Other Henry of particular interest: "Messe de Liverpool", "Mouvement-Rhythme-Étude", "La Reine Verte" [not currently available in its entirety... :(], etc. - Other Parmegiani of particular interest: "La Création du Monde", "Violostries", "Pour en finir avec le pouvoir d'Orphée", etc. As you can see, I consider Henry and Parmegiani to be the two biggest names in the "genre". Other stuff: - Edgar Varèse: "Poème électronique" - Iannis Xenakis: "Bohor", "Concret PH", "Orient-Occident", etc. - Francis Dhomont: "Sous le regard d'un soleil noir", "Les dérives du signe" (these are albums) - François Bayle: Son-Vitesse-Lumière (also an album) etc. etc. etc. That's just a beginning. Oh, to get an idea of the very beginnings of musique concrète, you have to listen to Pierre Schaeffer's various Études (Étude aux chemins de fer, Étude aux tourniquets, Étude noire, etc.). The later Études are also quite interesting (in fact, they're probably of a greater musical interest than the early ones, IMO). g. -- Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca in space there is no north in space there is no south in space there is no east in space there is no west --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-11-09 00:48Jeff Waye"Musique Concrete" (pronounced in French) as I understand it as a theory is "making music
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Jeff Waye
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idm
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Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:48:17 -0500
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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"Musique Concrete" (pronounced in French) as I understand it as a theory is "making music from non-musical sources" (or loosely to that effect). Pierre Henry would definitly be the starting point. Generally most of those reflective/silver covers series of Philips records that were released in the 50/60/70's (I think, sorry...at work don't have all these records in front of me) cover a lot of ground in this area (this includes "Variations Pour Une Porte et un Soupir" by Pierre Henry which I would rate as the starting point for the genre). Don't let anyone tell you that listening to 2 sides of creaking doors isn't a party. Jeff on 11/8/00 6:54 PM, Guillaume Grenier at gollum@videotron.ca wrote:
quoted 47 lines On 08/11/00 19:28, Giles Dickerson said in living color:> On 08/11/00 19:28, Giles Dickerson said in living color: > >> Could people throw back maybe the 5 or 10 records or artists I >> absolutely have to listen to to get the musique concrete feel? This is a >> genre I have not explored and I have a neighbor that seems like he knows >> what he's talking about and wantsa to share, just want to make sure he's >> not spouting steam. > > Strange, I've been posting stuff on this subject in various forums in the > last few days... > > It all depends on what you classify as "musique concrète"... The titles in > the following list take the term in a very broad sense (electroacoustic > music somewhat related to a "French aesthetic"). It is a bit random (what > currently pops up in my mind), except for the first two. > > 2 essential masterpieces: > > - "L'Apocalypse de Jean" (Pierre Henry) > - "De Natura Sonorum" (Bernard Parmegiani) -> Unfortunately out of print > > - Other Henry of particular interest: "Messe de Liverpool", > "Mouvement-Rhythme-Étude", "La Reine Verte" [not currently available in its > entirety... :(], etc. > - Other Parmegiani of particular interest: "La Création du Monde", > "Violostries", "Pour en finir avec le pouvoir d'Orphée", etc. > > As you can see, I consider Henry and Parmegiani to be the two biggest names > in the "genre". > > Other stuff: > > - Edgar Varèse: "Poème électronique" > - Iannis Xenakis: "Bohor", "Concret PH", "Orient-Occident", etc. > - Francis Dhomont: "Sous le regard d'un soleil noir", "Les dérives du signe" > (these are albums) > - François Bayle: Son-Vitesse-Lumière (also an album) > > etc. etc. etc. That's just a beginning. > > Oh, to get an idea of the very beginnings of musique concrète, you have to > listen to Pierre Schaeffer's various Études (Étude aux chemins de fer, Étude > aux tourniquets, Étude noire, etc.). The later Études are also quite > interesting (in fact, they're probably of a greater musical interest than > the early ones, IMO). > > g.
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2000-11-09 05:37fjthis may be more than what you wanted to know, god knows its more than i intended to write
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fj
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idm
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Thu, 09 Nov 2000 00:37:43 -0500
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Re: [idm] musique concrete question
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permalink · <B62FA256.2686%goboya@bellsouth.net>
this may be more than what you wanted to know, god knows its more than i intended to write. but i found that i couldn't leave this or that out. it's by no means all inclusive or authoritative. just my take on the beginnings of this wonderful era in music. experiments with phonographs were performed in the 30s by hindemith and toch. however, there really was no form applied to them, they were just groupings of sound. in the late 40s, pierre henri began to record these groupings of sounds and strategically placing them within a formal construct. henri called his music process concrete because he saw it as a "concrete" way of moulding sounds directly into a performance without the vagueness of music notation and live performance. others say that he hoped to revolutionize music the way concrete revolutionized architecture. the starting piece for the genre is usually considered to be henri and schaeffer's _symphonie pour un homme seul_ (1950), although henri had been "performing" his electronic studies since 1948. _variations pour une porte et un soupir_ wasn't written until 1963, a much later point in the genre, even though it's one of his most cited works. it's also in my opinion one of the greatest. there is a distinction between musique concrete and electronic music. music concrete is generally music using sampled ambient, for lack of a better word, sound whereas electronic uses synthesized sounds. at that time, though, both genres constructed pieces through tape recording, as computer manipulation of sounds was quite a while away, making the processes, and the resulting pieces, somewhat similar in sound. furthermore, true musique concrete was very short lived. with the exception of henri and schaeffer, many composers found the results unsatisfying. in 1951 the germans and the french simultaneously began experimenting with electronic sounds and soon after the two genres combined, creating a sort of uber-genre that realized the full possibility of both created and natural sounds. excepting the years between the late 40s and the mid 50s, true musique concrete is a rare find. i don't think anyone has mentioned stockhausen's _gesang der junglinge_. (1956). it's generally considered the first sucessful union of musique concrete and electronic music. hard to describe, a recording of a boy reading from the bible, i believe, is put through the usual tape manipulations and combined with purely electronic (i.e. synthesized) sounds. makes an impressive listen. other notable works include the amazing _thema: omaggio a joyce_ (1958) by luciano berio, henri and schaeffer's controversial opera _orpheus_ (1953) and varese's _deserts_ (1954). stockhausen's _kontakte_ (1960) as well. the american take was somewhat different in that they seemed to rely mostly on recorded musical instruments which were manipulated. the idea was to surpass the physical limitations of the instrument by manipulating recordings of their sounds. notable are luening's _low speed_ or ussachevsky's _sonic contours_. the european counterpart to this american style was xenakis, most notably _orient-occident_ (1960). and finally, there was john cage. he combined chance with the concrete+electronic idea in _williams mix_ (1952). however, he didn't really manipulate the sounds as he was more interested in being completely unbiased and letting chance form the piece. for a more modern perspective, the work of german bands such as einsturzende neubauten is very reminiscent of the sound of some of the early concrete and electronic works, however with a more 80s punk asthetic. as for where to find this stuff, most universities with a music library worth anything will have these recordings available for listening and sometimes even check-out. for further ideas, check the list of reserved recordings for whatever variant of 20th century music history/literature the university is offering. frank -- Fuerunt mihi lacrimae meae panis die ac nocte frank jimenez --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org