IDM Mailing Archive

" :jason (i'm not here, this isn't happening)" speaking of that last phrase... how many went out and bought radiohead yesterday? i, personally, have been an extremely large fan for a long while, but i think Kid A is gonna alienate all those fans out there that are lookin for another Bends Brian Hulick _-==- :The highest understanding is to rightly know our Creator. The wisest judgment is to lie as if in His very presence.:

quoted 17 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Cichli@aol.com [mailto:Cichli@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 1:24 AM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] presidential debate > > > im personally for nader, just becaues he isn't gore or bush. > > and thats all i have to say about that. > > :jason (i'm not here, this isn't happening) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 2 lines speaking of that last phrase... how many went out and bought radiohead

> speaking of that last phrase... how many went out and bought radiohead > yesterday? i, personally, have been an extremely large fan for a long

while,

quoted 2 lines but i think Kid A is gonna alienate all those fans out there that

> but i think Kid A is gonna alienate all those fans out there that > are lookin for another Bends

or it may work like NIN's pretty hate machine and convert another slew of guitar worshipers over to electronic devices.. (note: i do not hate guitars) aaron systorm technologies www.systorm.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, aaron wrote:

quoted 2 lines speaking of that last phrase... how many went out and bought radiohead

> > speaking of that last phrase... how many went out and bought radiohead > > yesterday?

Yeah, sure. I might be speaking prematurely since I've only listened to it a couple of times, but my reaction so far has been lukewarm at best. I thought there are like 2 or 3 OK songs, but the album just kinda washed over me and didn't leave much of an impression. There's nothing very exceptional about it. Both the writing and the sounds they use are rather average. At times I thought there was some naive use of DSP, like "hey, I just discovered timestretching". Maybe my expectations were too high after "OK Computer", but I don't think that's entirely it. And it doesn't sound like a band record to me which is probably due to the absence of guitars which was the dominant sound on their previous albums. I guess the guitar players decided to switch to keyboards for the new one. And I have to say I actually find Yorke's whining annoying at times. I'm bitchin' aren't I ? I'm just dissapointed. And it's not that I was expecting "OK Computer 2" cuz I'm willing to accept whatever new direction they wanna go into, I just thought they'd make a better record. And to those people who think it sounds like IDM or Autechre, you must be on crack ! "Idioteque" (I think) superficially resembles a track off "EP7", but that's about it imo.

quoted 3 lines i, personally, have been an extremely large fan for a long while,

> > i, personally, have been an extremely large fan for a long while, > > but i think Kid A is gonna alienate all those fans out there that > > are lookin for another Bends

Why would anyone expect "The Bends" after "OK Computer" !? Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines so be happy that the frat boys will soon be jamming autechre from the

>so be happy that the frat boys will soon be jamming autechre from the >speakers of their SUVs, because that is the true sound of innovation. >

Heh...I relish the thought. I'll keep my ears open for really irregular bass rumbles and weird plinks and clanks. Ebola np: speedy j _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Kid A will be looked at as 'the weird one' by mainstream audiences. People are still complaining that they haven't done much that sounds like The Bends in a while. It is not going to start a revolution in mainstream tastes. Trust me. -Nathan

quoted 3 lines so be happy that the frat boys will soon be jamming autechre from the

> > so be happy that the frat boys will soon be jamming autechre from the > speakers of their SUVs, because that is the true sound of innovation.

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yeah, i'll agree ... too bad, that. at least radiohead belongs to us again :) listened to "Pablo Honey" for the first time last week ... could they have tried any harder to sound like u2? josh -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Nathan Lueckenhoff wrote:

quoted 18 lines Kid A will be looked at as 'the weird one' by mainstream audiences. People

> Kid A will be looked at as 'the weird one' by mainstream audiences. People > are still complaining that they haven't done much that sounds like The Bends > in a while. It is not going to start a revolution in mainstream tastes. > Trust me. > > -Nathan > > > > > so be happy that the frat boys will soon be jamming autechre from the > > speakers of their SUVs, because that is the true sound of innovation. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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quoted 4 lines Kid A will be looked at as 'the weird one' by mainstream audiences. People

> Kid A will be looked at as 'the weird one' by mainstream audiences. People > are still complaining that they haven't done much that sounds like The Bends > in a while. It is not going to start a revolution in mainstream tastes. > Trust me.

i agree. getting tired ok all this Kid a talk, not into them myself. but thought people might be interesed in this. not a mention of Ae http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articles/0,3266,56396,00.html Jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"but it's a futile concern that serves only to stroke the egos of those who 'heard it first.'" Josh has addressed this issue quite possibly better than I've ever heard it addressed (and in one sentence, I might add). This is by far the most clear fault of IDM fans: blind pride/fear of this music becoming mainstream. I believe this is a fault that everyone carries to some degree, some more than others. And, of course, as you age, it becomes less on an issue. But if we (IDM fans) expect to remain intelligent, we must accept that the growth of IDM to both commercial and artistic masses will result in many things, some being bad. But the bad things, no matter how abundant, will be juxtaposed by the good things. Commercial music only reflects the "dumbing down," so to speak of the entire culture. There will be bad music releases, just like there are now. The change will not be the downfall. Please remember this. "so be happy that the frat boys will soon be jamming autechre from the speakers of their SUVs, because that is the true sound of innovation." I wouldn't bet that Kid A will be involved in gaining more exposure to IDM. So far, I haven't noticed any reviews of the album (aside from ones on this list) that give any regard or acknowledgement to any key words like "IDM," "Aphex Twin," or "Autechre." Honestly I'd say the only hope for Radiohead lifting IDM out of the underground would be through reviews. I could be wrong though. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Here's a reply to the message "[idm] Kid A vs Us" written on Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:25:55 CDT:

quoted 5 lines I wouldn't bet that Kid A will be involved in gaining more exposure to IDM.

>I wouldn't bet that Kid A will be involved in gaining more exposure to IDM. >So far, I haven't noticed any reviews of the album (aside from ones on this >list) that give any regard or acknowledgement to any key words like "IDM," >"Aphex Twin," or "Autechre." Honestly I'd say the only hope for Radiohead >lifting IDM out of the underground would be through reviews.

Which country are you in? Literally every single press review I've read in the UK mentions Autechre and Aphex Twin. The Q magazine review actually name-checked Autechre, Aphex Twin, Broadcast, Plone, DJ Shadow and LFO. I actually work in a record store -- about three months back I ordered in a few Autechre albums just to see if there were any takers. None. Not surprising though, seeing as 99% of our customers buy pop, r&b and not much else. Then Radiohead's "Kid A" was released and the two Autechre albums (ep7 and Amber) went the very next day. Coincidence? Still, odd things do happen. When Plaid released "Booc", I ordered up five copies. I picked up one for myself and half expected to be picking up the other four a month later, ready to slap up on Ebay. But no, the other four copies all went within a couple of days. Bizarre. This simply isn't IDM country round here! I wanna know who else in town is buying this stuff! -- Mark Stevens http://www.headspin.clara.net/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"oh dude...I was listening to that before it was cool......it's not cool anymore though because everyone is into it, so I'll move on to something else obscure and exclusive and try to define myself and my personality by that...." the above attitude comes accross now and again on this list but I haven't really caught too much of it lately...I have been doing mass deletes w/o reading though... steve ----------

quoted 6 lines From: "Armchair Charlie" <dubnovibrator@hotmail.com>

>From: "Armchair Charlie" <dubnovibrator@hotmail.com> >To: yoshi@enteract.com >Cc: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: [idm] Kid A vs Us >Date: Wed, Oct 4, 2000, 3:25 PM >

quoted 37 lines "but it's a futile concern that serves only to

> "but it's a futile concern that serves only to > stroke the egos of those who 'heard it first.'" > > Josh has addressed this issue quite possibly better than I've ever heard it > addressed (and in one sentence, I might add). This is by far the most clear > fault of IDM fans: blind pride/fear of this music becoming mainstream. I > believe this is a fault that everyone carries to some degree, some more than > others. And, of course, as you age, it becomes less on an issue. But if we > (IDM fans) expect to remain intelligent, we must accept that the growth of > IDM to both commercial and artistic masses will result in many things, some > being bad. But the bad things, no matter how abundant, will be juxtaposed > by the good things. Commercial music only reflects the "dumbing down," so > to speak of the entire culture. There will be bad music releases, just like > there are now. The change will not be the downfall. Please remember this. > > "so be happy that the frat boys will soon be > jamming autechre from the speakers of their SUVs, > because that is the true sound of innovation." > > I wouldn't bet that Kid A will be involved in gaining more exposure to IDM. > So far, I haven't noticed any reviews of the album (aside from ones on this > list) that give any regard or acknowledgement to any key words like "IDM," > "Aphex Twin," or "Autechre." Honestly I'd say the only hope for Radiohead > lifting IDM out of the underground would be through reviews. I could be > wrong though. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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quoted 2 lines im afraid of what happens if/when it becomes mainstream, mostly because it

> im afraid of what happens if/when it becomes mainstream, mostly because it > could very possible rob it, the music and the movement, of any power it

has,

quoted 1 line at least for a couple of years. its perfect just the way it is, the

> at least for a couple of years. its perfect just the way it is, the

masses dude, totally! wanna ditch 3rd period? i got some cigs! -jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 7 lines "but it's a futile concern that serves only to

>"but it's a futile concern that serves only to >stroke the egos of those who 'heard it first.'" > >Josh has addressed this issue quite possibly better than I've ever heard it >addressed (and in one sentence, I might add). This is by far the most >clear >fault of IDM fans: blind pride/fear of this music becoming mainstream.

im afraid of what happens if/when it becomes mainstream, mostly because it could very possible rob it, the music and the movement, of any power it has, at least for a couple of years. its perfect just the way it is, the masses never know what they want, but the impact of what we call good still filters throu, to give the taste to more, so that they can become satisfied with something that they wouldn't usually have been able to find i dont know about you, but the music, the creation and the listening, fills a void in my life that i have no idea how id be filling it without the music, maybe id be a crack addict or maybe the music just makes a completely different "storage" tank in my persona, expanding me no, thats wrong im just as shallow as the first day i heard this, just as empty and boring as someone who gets their joys out of the spice girls, the backstreet boys just an opinion _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, me makes you wrote:

quoted 3 lines im afraid of what happens if/when it becomes mainstream, mostly because it

> im afraid of what happens if/when it becomes mainstream, mostly because it > could very possible rob it, the music and the movement, of any power it has, > at least for a couple of years. its perfect just the way it is, the masses

no, no, no... it does not rob the movement of power... it serves as a catalyst ... of course those involved with the avant garde (which is what we mean when we say "IDM" -- avant garde electronic music) will feel robbed when the mainstream get their grubby hands on our beautiful creations. because they do not appreciate it for the fact that it is progress, they appreciate it for the fact that it is what the cool kids like. but that is what propels the evolution of art. it is a process that must take place. relish it, and reap the benefits. -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines im afraid of what happens if/when it becomes mainstream, mostly >because it

>im afraid of what happens if/when it becomes mainstream, mostly >because it >could very possible rob it, the music and the movement, of any power >it >has

or could it multiply that power as more people hear it, and dicover they like it?

quoted 1 line the masses never know what they want

>the masses never know what they want

sounding a bit trotskyite, mate: maybe 'they' never find what they really want as all they hear is pop tat....could kid A be a door into happiness for all as the shining light of IDM is revealed?

quoted 3 lines but the music, the creation and the listening, fills

>but the music, the creation and the listening, fills >a void in my life that i have no idea how id be filling it without the >music

the spice girls could *(at least in theory) also fill that hole (musically speaking) personally, i think a big part of the problem is 'i'm cool' agenda---i have a record no-one else has, let alone heard (but its on a cool label)therefore i am better. selling millions of records is no sign of quality, but neither is selling 100 copies of a ltd edition boards of canada double 7" (this does exist).... as long as artists don't sign to major labels and get treated/marketed the same way as beans its ok, keep it DIY....do it for the love, not the money, the feared exploitation is unlikely to happen. However if artists do start signing to majors, then in my eyes they are no better than the spice girls_____simply a product maybe IDM needs to be more explicit about this as hardcore(the punk version) was/is: it's not a sound but an ethic _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:32:36 GMT Matthew Burrows <matthew_burrows@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 2 lines or could it multiply that power as more people hear it, and dicover they

>or could it multiply that power as more people hear it, and dicover they >like it?

amen to that.

quoted 3 lines sounding a bit trotskyite, mate: maybe 'they' never find what they really

>sounding a bit trotskyite, mate: maybe 'they' never find what they really >want as all they hear is pop tat....could kid A be a door into happiness for >all as the shining light of IDM is revealed?

that would be more than happiness for me. finally sharing good music with people who haven't heard it before.

quoted 5 lines personally, i think a big part of the problem is 'i'm cool' agenda---i have

>personally, i think a big part of the problem is 'i'm cool' agenda---i have >a record no-one else has, let alone heard (but its on a cool label)therefore >i am better. selling millions of records is no sign of quality, but neither >is selling 100 copies of a ltd edition boards of canada double 7" (this does >exist)....

RIGHT ON RIGHT ON RIGHT ON. Nothing pisses me off more than "Oh, well, i've heard of this and you haven't, therefore I'm cool and you're not. Oh wait, you mean a few people know about this band? Yeah.. they suck." ... Atomly put it best when we were talking about it yesterday on #// We were talking about people who hoard music and feel that if only they know about it, then they're all elite and cool... so we were comparing it to the warez scene, in saying that the elite kids who transfer the 0 day warez are the ones who run around thinking they're all special because their warez are 0 day. He said, and I quote, "Records are not 0 day warez". That made my day. I just had to put it as the topic on the channel. I hate elitists. Bleh. Good music should be listened to by everyone. It's not who makes the music or how underground they are. It's about how good the music sounds and how the music makes you feel. If the music is good and it happens to move 50,000 people, then great. If i made a song and it moved even 50 people, i'd be happy. The more the merrier. It's not about the money, but the music itself. Radiohead is playing with fire - they could possibly alienate alot of their fans, but i'm sure that they'll be bringing in a new fan base, too. I love Kid A. I love OK Computer. I love the bends. Go radiohead. Michelle np: alec empire - bang your head --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Here's a reply to the message "Re: [idm] Kid A vs Us" written on 6 Oct 2000 13:48:26 -0000:

quoted 1 line RIGHT ON RIGHT ON RIGHT ON. Nothing pisses me off more than "Oh, well, i've hear

>RIGHT ON RIGHT ON RIGHT ON. Nothing pisses me off more than "Oh, well, i've heard of this and you haven't, therefore I'm cool and you're not. Oh wait, you mean a few people know about this band? Yeah.. they suck." ...

If there's one thing that annoys me, it's those people who hate Orbital simply because they've appeared on MTV. That's how the anti-Orbital argument always starts -- mention MTV first, as if some sort of commercial profile is indicative of a lack of artistic integrity, *THEN* get around to criticising their music (albeit in a unconvincing fashion). If Orbital ain't your cup of tea, then that's fine -- but don't pretend to hate them just because they're not as "underground" as other IDM artists you like. Besides, that whole "chart/MTV success = shite music" argument is totally blown out of the water (from a UK perspective anyway) when you consider all the IDM artists who have been in the Top 40 Singles chart. Back in the late 80s/early 90s, you couldn't keep Warp Records out of the UK Top 20! Sweet Exorcist, Tricky Disco, LFO, Nightmares on Wax. They all produced Top 20 hits, folks. Don't believe me? Get a Guiness reference book. A Guy Called Gerald, 808 State, Orbital, Future Sound of London/Stakker Humanoid, Bassomatic -- Top 20 hits. Aphex Twin? Top 20. Autechre? Basscadet got to 43 (or was it 53?) in the UK's national charts. Yes, indeed -- all chart music is shite.

quoted 3 lines Radiohead is playing with fire - they could possibly alienate alot

>Radiohead is playing with fire - they could possibly alienate alot >of their fans, but i'm sure that they'll be bringing in a new fan >base, too.

They alienated a lot of their fans with OK Computer too. Seems like quite a few people wanted them to rewrite Creep and Fake Plastic Trees every time.

quoted 2 lines I love Kid A. I love OK Computer. I love the bends.

>I love Kid A. I love OK Computer. I love the bends. >Go radiohead.

Indeed. I much prefer those artists that actually try something "a bit different" each time round. What's the point waiting two years for a studio album to arrive, only for it be 11 tracks/45 mins worth of exactly what they did last time round? (Hello, Oasis.) np: philip glass - "symphony no.3" -- Mark Stevens http://www.headspin.clara.net/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines Indeed. I much prefer those artists that actually try something "a bit

> Indeed. I much prefer those artists that actually try something "a bit > different" each time round. What's the point waiting two years for a > studio album to arrive, only for it be 11 tracks/45 mins worth of > exactly what they did last time round? (Hello, Oasis.)

Even to the point of re-using chord progressions / melodies. I'm all for recycling music (one man's garbage is another man's gold and all that), but come on... G-love. http://www.gram.org.uk --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.176 / Virus Database: 85 - Release Date: 26/07/00 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Radiohead is playing with fire - they could possibly alienate alot of their fans, but i'm sure that they'll be bringing in a new fan base, too. I love Kid A. I love OK Computer. I love the bends. Go radiohead. personally, i don't give a shit about radiohead (i'm from oxford, and am well aware of what a trite, self-serving arse thom is)or their records, but i do care about how this thread seems to focus on a fear of idm becoming 'popular' and people therefore losing their status as 'cool' and special......does this link in with the slagging kid606 has been getting: its not focussed on the music, but on the fact he's (gulp) doing interviews outside of the 'scene'...as far as i'm concerned he's in control of his work, has his own label, and can do what he wants.without making unwanted concessions..if he sells stuff and doesn't have to work how very nice for him. radiohead are just copying stuff thats better than them, like they always have......no huge change oing on, just the influences _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Matthew Burrows wrote:

quoted 2 lines personally, i don't give a shit about radiohead (i'm from oxford, and am

> personally, i don't give a shit about radiohead (i'm from oxford, and am > well aware of what a trite, self-serving arse thom is)or their records,

Yeah, being British gives you a better perspective !?!?

quoted 2 lines but i do care about how this thread seems to focus on a fear of idm becoming

> but i do care about how this thread seems to focus on a fear of idm becoming > 'popular' and people therefore losing their status as 'cool' and special......

quoted 3 lines does this link in with the slagging kid606 has been getting:

> does this link in with the slagging kid606 has been getting: > its not focussed on the music, but on the fact he's (gulp) doing interviews > outside of the 'scene'

I'm getting really fucking tired of this attitude which that interview in the new issue of URB is a good example of where they treat 606 as if his music is beyond critique and is somehow innately good or something. Anyone criticizing it must be some naive, PC moron who doesn't "get it". Look, there's not much to get. It's rather dumb music. There have been other IDM artists (oh yeah, don't call 606 IDM) who have gotten attention outside of the scene (Aphex, duh) and no one has any problems with that. The reasons for my 606 flaming are more personal and I won't go into that on the list, but I'll say that they're not caused by jealousy or fear that he's exposing IDM to the evil world outside or because his music offends me or that I don't get his music. I think some of music is OK. I do think he's creating a lot of bad karma though.

quoted 2 lines radiohead are just copying stuff thats better than them, like they always

> radiohead are just copying stuff thats better than them, like they always > have......no huge change oing on, just the influences

Having influences is terrible isn't it ? Every artist should reinvent the wheel. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org