IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 8 lines From: Kent williams <kent@avalon.net>

>From: Kent williams <kent@avalon.net> > >All right it's that time of the month, I'm going to be a bitch. > >Electronic music challenges the performer in ways that traditional > >performance does not. Since the music is created outside of real time > >(sometimes WAY outside of real time -- like when I tweak the same 1 >bar >loop for two hours), it is a challenge to really make it a >performance.

If the "performer" is using a laptop their workload has probably been simplyfied a great deal. It's not like they are playing really fast drums or traditional instruments...they are in many cases just clicking a mouse. As far as performance...it is often nonexistant. Watching someone click a mouse is not a performance.

quoted 2 lines Just pushing 'play' on a laptop doesn't constitute a live performance,

>Just pushing 'play' on a laptop doesn't constitute a live performance, >granted.

Of course, and I'm sure most of us have seen many shows where that is all the artists does.

quoted 3 lines But it sounds like what people are asking for is the kind of spectacle

>But it sounds like what people are asking for is the kind of spectacle > >created by rock bands. If you want that, maybe Nelson will attempt a > >comeback and make you happy.

Now we know where your pre-idm tastes...eeew. You guys can keep attacking rock or rock pardigm. etc, There has been a long tradition of live music before rock. Such as classical. I certainly wouldn't want to go to a theatrical play and instead of seeing actors on stage, they just push a remote control and you see a pre-recorded image. Like every actor in the play had their own tv screen dedicated to their character. Conceptually that might be entertaining to see once, but not routinely.

quoted 2 lines But is there is something inherently valid about prancing around

>But is there is something inherently valid about prancing around >like a drunken weasel playing a 3 note bassline?

It would be more interesting seeing the artist pour concrete and shaping on the floor than clicking a mere button every once in a while.

quoted 7 lines It is possible to be very spontaneous with a laptop. Vladislav Delay's

>It is possible to be very spontaneous with a laptop. Vladislav Delay's >set was done with Reaktor, and it is very much live. Kit Clayton live >is very live. Stewart Walker live is very live. >Rich Devine (when I saw him) was playing digital audio straight out of >cubase, but he was tweaking it live with effects and an access virus. >I thought it was way cool because it was cool music. People dug it. >But if someone wants to come in and push play, judge it on it's merits.

The setting & sound could or drunken fools could add to it

quoted 2 lines If they were up all night the night before lashing a new track >together,

>If they were up all night the night before lashing a new track >together, >and no one except the artist has heard it before, isn't that >something?

New tunes are worth hearing.

quoted 1 line And if you're not a musician, how do you know what they're actually >doing?

>And if you're not a musician, how do you know what they're actually >doing?

You don't have to be a musician to be knowledgeable about how to make music. When you have a few friends that make tunes and read articles in music zine...it's not to hard.

quoted 8 lines Let me tell you a story -- about a year ago, I played live -- I had 3 or

>Let me tell you a story -- about a year ago, I played live -- I had 3 or >4 tracks that were really live -- i was playing a keyboard, and programming >a drum machine in live mode. But I also had tracks to cover setting up >for a new song on CD, and some tracks on an Akai S20 sampler that were >just 'push play' tracks. But I did have a lot of funky looking gear on >stage. After I played people said they liked the set, but a lot >of people seemed to be impressed with the gear. They didn't know what I >did with it, if anything.

Fascinating story...you've changed my mind. Click away on your little mouse, i'll never doubt anyone ever again. If someone comes on stage with a just a stapler and a microphone...I'll be excited

quoted 4 lines Gear for gear for it's own sake is about as creative as the front >window

>Gear for gear for it's own sake is about as creative as the front >window >of a music store. I was getting props basically for my ability >to hump >stuff up the back stairs and plug it in, as much for the music >I actually >played.

I suppose store fronts are more interesting than clicking a mouse. What are electronic artists so oppose to something visual?

quoted 1 line Which is to say that the showbiz stuff is bullshit.

>Which is to say that the showbiz stuff is bullshit.

So is paying to watch some push a button every few minutes.

quoted 2 lines Aphex Twin got a lot of mileage out of smelly teddy bear suits. I've

>Aphex Twin got a lot of mileage out of smelly teddy bear suits. I've > >thought of hiring a clown to make balloon animals during my sets.

Might be a good idea.

quoted 3 lines Given my ridiculous stage name, maybe I should get a chair from the

>Given my ridiculous stage name, maybe I should get a chair from the > >Goodwill and smash it up on stage. The point, I guess, no matter WHAT > >you do it's at least as valid as playing records.

You obviously have not seen any really good djs. Typically, I hear more sounds and variation when I see a good dj. Some artist's use the same sounds in all of their tunes. So I guess that's another reason to choose a dj or a mouse expert.

quoted 1 line And everyone knows it's the DJs that get all the booty.

>And everyone knows it's the DJs that get all the booty.

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At 07:11 PM 9/13/2000 -0700, Ron Jeremy wrote:

quoted 6 lines If the "performer" is using a laptop their workload has probably been

>If the "performer" is using a laptop their workload has probably been >simplyfied a great deal. It's not like they are playing really fast drums >or traditional instruments...they are in many cases just clicking a mouse. > >As far as performance...it is often nonexistant. Watching someone click a >mouse is not a performance.

This isn't just a response specifically to this or Mr. Jeremy, but the one thing I've been thinking the whole time I've read this thread. Generally people are comparing IDM shows to rock shows. Watching some guy click a mouse isn't exciting. Watching someone like Lexaunculpt isn't riveting, but I find watching four guys plucking strings and hitting drums to be just as boring. Watching musicians grimace and lean into the microphone and spin in circles while playing guitars isn't even remotely entertaining to me. Musicians aren't more exciting when they jump up and down or wave their hands. Seriously, I'm really not being glib when I say that most IDM shows should turn the lights up a little, provide more tables to sit at, and let people sit down and read or talk quietly in the back while they listen. Some music demands and rewards attentive listening, but most of it is froofy melodies and tricky little chiastic beats. There's not enough there to just stand and listen for hours on end. If there were screens to look at, or I had a book to read, I would be more ready to sit through every performance. Standing there in the dark with my arms crossed staring at some laptop, or standing by a speaker dancing by myself (since dancing seems to be forbidden at hip idm shows) both get boring quickly. As much as we're all expected to hate and scorn raves on this list, I've always found more to do at parties with a big space, room to walk around, a crowd that is actually reacting overtly to music, playstations hooked up, and whatever else promoters do to be nifty. If I could go raving and hear interesting music (and there's plenty of stuff like Cylob that is simultaneously pocket pen protector-friendly and funky and danceable) that would make me pretty happy. The rock show format is boring. I don't want to spend $9 for a little tiny drink, and I don't want to stand around amidst a bunch of Hollywood hipsters trying hard to look bored. I dunno what shows are like in the rest of the world, but there must be some happy medium.

quoted 3 lines Now we know where your pre-idm tastes...eeew.

>Now we know where your pre-idm tastes...eeew. >You guys can keep attacking rock or rock pardigm. etc, >There has been a long tradition of live music before rock. Such as classical.

I want to see a laptop orchestra. That would be hott. If there were no beats, or maybe everyone were synched to the same midi tempo controller ... would that be doable? Ten guys with laptops, each tweaking their software synths and patterns. Hmm. It could be very cool for improv-microsound music (which is a currently running topic on that list), and maybe give things a more spontaneous feel than just one person arranging the sound.

quoted 4 lines You obviously have not seen any really good djs. Typically, I hear more

>You obviously have not seen any really good djs. Typically, I hear more >sounds and variation when I see a good dj. Some artist's use the same >sounds in all of their tunes. So I guess that's another reason to choose >a dj or a mouse expert.

Some DJs use the same sounds in all their tunes, for years on end. DJs are glorified jukeboxes. They play prerecorded material for people to dance to. But when you have people who hit 'play' on the laptop and we go to see them for purposes of hearing the new tunes (most of the reason I go to shows), I guess you could argue it's not really any different from seeing whatever big name junglist for the sake of dubplate fetishism. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

yes, improvisation is a topic in the microsound neck of the woods today, and it's agreed, generally, it's the way most people work, live. that's one reason it's so surprising to read the idm posts today, and see that there can actually be folks arguing if it is even doable, a live performance. my buddies tell me the listeners just don't realize what's happening on the stage. I find that hard to believe, after talking to people after shows, and having conversations about program noodling and the degeneration of sound, etc. I may be glib lately, but that doesn't mean i'm not real, by the way. at least the sushi delivery guy says i exist, and i can taste the uni. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Pitrman" <jeff@spof.net> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 1:49 AM Subject: [idm] Yeah, but rock shows are boring too.

quoted 2 lines

> >

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quoted 2 lines Musicians aren't more exciting when they jump up and

>Musicians aren't more exciting when they jump up and >down or wave their hands.

...but, I dance like a fish...a real fish...ah, come on people! A FISH DAMN IT! ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines From: Jeff Pitrman <jeff@spof.net>

>From: Jeff Pitrman <jeff@spof.net> > > This isn't just a response specifically to this or Mr. Jeremy, but >the one thing I've been thinking the whole time I've read >this thread. >Generally people are comparing IDM shows to rock shows.

I think people are comparing Idm shows to any form a live entertainment they go see. There is an expected visual aspect for just about anything you see. A dimly lit place (and typically bad sound) with a guy clicking a mouse doesn't really cut it for most.

quoted 3 lines Watching some guy click a mouse isn't exciting. Watching someone like

>Watching some guy click a mouse isn't exciting. Watching someone like > >Lexaunculpt isn't riveting, but I find watching four guys plucking > >strings and hitting drums to be just as boring.

Some bands are boring to watch...usually the ones that don't move. Some bands bring a lot of energy into their performance, some drummers are great to watch.

quoted 2 lines Watching musicians grimace and lean into the microphone and spin in

>Watching musicians grimace and lean into the microphone and spin in > >circles while playing guitars isn't even remotely entertaining to me.

Are you saying you have never seen a band EVER that has been interesting live? I have seen plenty that have either been great to watch or very entertaining visually. I can wholeheartedly say I would take a Pink Floyd concert over a mouse session anyday.

quoted 2 lines Musicians aren't more exciting when they jump up and down or wave >their

>Musicians aren't more exciting when they jump up and down or wave >their >hands.

Usually that's rather cheesy. I hear your worst case scenario for bands. What about laptop guys? There is no experience whatsoever. What's the big thrill? The guy grabbing a glass of water to drink, or the guy accidentally pulling down the wrong window or button.

quoted 4 lines Seriously, I'm really not being glib when I say that most IDM

> Seriously, I'm really not being glib when I say that most IDM >shows should turn the lights up a little, provide more tables to >sit at, >and let people sit down and read or talk quietly in the back >while they >listen.

If it was a coffee house situation where I could have a cup of coffee and talk with someone or read...that could be keen. Sitting and watching some on stage looking like they are "doing homework". No thanks. If there was some visuals, puppet show, whatever maybe. Doing nothing whatsoever seems like they are doing the absolute minimal, if anything at all.

quoted 2 lines Some music demands and rewards attentive listening, but most of it is

>Some music demands and rewards attentive listening, but most of it is >froofy melodies and tricky little chiastic beats.

Visuals have never detracted from listening IMHO. Being completely assaulted with visuals would not detracted me one bit.

quoted 6 lines There's not enough there to just stand and listen for hours on end. If

>There's not enough there to just stand and listen for hours on end. If > >there were screens to look at, or I had a book to read, I would be more > >ready to sit through every performance. Standing there in the dark with > >my arms crossed staring at some laptop, or standing by a speaker >dancing >by myself (since dancing seems to be forbidden at hip idm >shows) both get >boring quickly.

AGREED.

quoted 4 lines As much as we're all expected to hate and scorn raves on this

> As much as we're all expected to hate and scorn raves on this >list, I've always found more to do at parties with a big space, >room to >walk around, a crowd that is actually reacting overtly to music, >playstations hooked up, and whatever else promoters do to be nifty.

For one thing the sound & visuals tends to be better. The age group isn't particularly appealing. Neither is the tendency for it to be more about drugs, then the music. But you can't have everything.

quoted 3 lines If I could go raving and hear interesting music (and there's plenty of

>If I could go raving and hear interesting music (and there's plenty of >stuff like Cylob that is simultaneously pocket pen protector-friendly > >and funky and danceable) that would make me pretty happy.

Chill out areas are cool, kind of a thing of the past it seems.

quoted 1 line The rock show format is boring.

>The rock show format is boring.

It's definitely no more so then your typical IDM style show.

quoted 4 lines I don't want to spend $9 for a little tiny drink, and I don't want

>I don't want to spend $9 for a little tiny drink, and I don't want >to stand around amidst a bunch of Hollywood hipsters trying hard to look >bored. I dunno what shows are like in the rest of the world, but there must >be some happy medium.

Looking bored is universal, except for the occasional few that try and dance.

quoted 7 lines I want to see a laptop orchestra. That would be hott. If there

> I want to see a laptop orchestra. That would be hott. If there >were no beats, or maybe everyone were synched to the same midi >tempo >controller ... would that be doable? Ten guys with laptops, each tweaking >their software synths and patterns. Hmm. It could be very cool >for >improv-microsound music (which is a currently running topic on that list), >and maybe give things a more spontaneous feel than just one >person >arranging the sound.

It would still be boring visually, but I would be interested in hearing what might come out of it.

quoted 1 line Some DJs use the same sounds in all their tunes, for years on end.

> Some DJs use the same sounds in all their tunes, for years on end.

Some do, a lot of the good ones will do doubles and interesting layering. Many of the tunes Richie Hawtin play are in a similar vein, yet he does a good job making it interesting.

quoted 1 line DJs are glorified jukeboxes.

>DJs are glorified jukeboxes.

Bad ones are. You obviously don't know what you are talking about when it comes to good djs. Either that or your local area is filled with crap djs, and/or idm djs.

quoted 1 line They play prerecorded material for people to dance to.

>They play prerecorded material for people to dance to.

Ever seen someone on three tables? Some djs can do some brilliant stuff.

quoted 4 lines But when you have people who hit 'play' on the laptop and we go to see them

>But when you have people who hit 'play' on the laptop and we go to see them >for purposes of hearing the new tunes (most of the reason I go to shows), I >guess you could argue it's not really any >different from seeing whatever >big name junglist for the sake of >dubplate fetishism.

Except for the way the dj mixes, the sound & the vibe (oh and the booty). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I am apologizing in advance, because I'm doing now, one of the two things that were said to frustrate most list members, however, since my reply is an overall one and not sentence specific, I'll do it here in the head and you all can delete if you feel the need. I am curious as to why all the cynicism? The people on this list, I like to think, have a higher appreciation for music with depth and 'intelligence'. Perhaps that's elitist of me, but I do. With this being the case, I wonder how it's possible that those of you complaining about how boring shows are can't see that perhaps the lack of visual stimuli is there for a reason. It's been my experience that this is the case. While at a show, I am there for the music solely, not to chat or read or whatnot, and I prefer to sit comfortably, close my eyes and submit myself wholly to the music. In essence, allowing my brain create all the stimuli needed. however, if its stimuli you're interested in.. let me suggest Masonna. Excellent noise artist, as well as all the visual aesthetics you could dream of. =) I've left the previous posts below as a reference to my own post. so there. nyah. -,,^. .^,, -----Original Message----- From: Ron Jeremy [mailto:galactic_funk@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 1:32 PM To: jeff@spof.net; idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] Yeah, but rock shows are boring too.

quoted 5 lines From: Jeff Pitrman <jeff@spof.net>

>From: Jeff Pitrman <jeff@spof.net> > > This isn't just a response specifically to this or Mr. Jeremy, but >the one thing I've been thinking the whole time I've read >this thread. >Generally people are comparing IDM shows to rock shows.

I think people are comparing Idm shows to any form a live entertainment they go see. There is an expected visual aspect for just about anything you see. A dimly lit place (and typically bad sound) with a guy clicking a mouse doesn't really cut it for most.

quoted 3 lines Watching some guy click a mouse isn't exciting. Watching someone like

>Watching some guy click a mouse isn't exciting. Watching someone like > >Lexaunculpt isn't riveting, but I find watching four guys plucking > >strings and hitting drums to be just as boring.

Some bands are boring to watch...usually the ones that don't move. Some bands bring a lot of energy into their performance, some drummers are great to watch.

quoted 2 lines Watching musicians grimace and lean into the microphone and spin in

>Watching musicians grimace and lean into the microphone and spin in > >circles while playing guitars isn't even remotely entertaining to me.

Are you saying you have never seen a band EVER that has been interesting live? I have seen plenty that have either been great to watch or very entertaining visually. I can wholeheartedly say I would take a Pink Floyd concert over a mouse session anyday.

quoted 2 lines Musicians aren't more exciting when they jump up and down or wave >their

>Musicians aren't more exciting when they jump up and down or wave >their >hands.

Usually that's rather cheesy. I hear your worst case scenario for bands. What about laptop guys? There is no experience whatsoever. What's the big thrill? The guy grabbing a glass of water to drink, or the guy accidentally pulling down the wrong window or button.

quoted 4 lines Seriously, I'm really not being glib when I say that most IDM

> Seriously, I'm really not being glib when I say that most IDM >shows should turn the lights up a little, provide more tables to >sit at, >and let people sit down and read or talk quietly in the back >while they >listen.

If it was a coffee house situation where I could have a cup of coffee and talk with someone or read...that could be keen. Sitting and watching some on stage looking like they are "doing homework". No thanks. If there was some visuals, puppet show, whatever maybe. Doing nothing whatsoever seems like they are doing the absolute minimal, if anything at all.

quoted 2 lines Some music demands and rewards attentive listening, but most of it is

>Some music demands and rewards attentive listening, but most of it is >froofy melodies and tricky little chiastic beats.

Visuals have never detracted from listening IMHO. Being completely assaulted with visuals would not detracted me one bit.

quoted 6 lines There's not enough there to just stand and listen for hours on end. If

>There's not enough there to just stand and listen for hours on end. If > >there were screens to look at, or I had a book to read, I would be more > >ready to sit through every performance. Standing there in the dark with > >my arms crossed staring at some laptop, or standing by a speaker >dancing >by myself (since dancing seems to be forbidden at hip idm >shows) both get >boring quickly.

AGREED.

quoted 4 lines As much as we're all expected to hate and scorn raves on this

> As much as we're all expected to hate and scorn raves on this >list, I've always found more to do at parties with a big space, >room to >walk around, a crowd that is actually reacting overtly to music, >playstations hooked up, and whatever else promoters do to be nifty.

For one thing the sound & visuals tends to be better. The age group isn't particularly appealing. Neither is the tendency for it to be more about drugs, then the music. But you can't have everything.

quoted 3 lines If I could go raving and hear interesting music (and there's plenty of

>If I could go raving and hear interesting music (and there's plenty of >stuff like Cylob that is simultaneously pocket pen protector-friendly > >and funky and danceable) that would make me pretty happy.

Chill out areas are cool, kind of a thing of the past it seems.

quoted 1 line The rock show format is boring.

>The rock show format is boring.

It's definitely no more so then your typical IDM style show.

quoted 4 lines I don't want to spend $9 for a little tiny drink, and I don't want

>I don't want to spend $9 for a little tiny drink, and I don't want >to stand around amidst a bunch of Hollywood hipsters trying hard to look >bored. I dunno what shows are like in the rest of the world, but there must >be some happy medium.

Looking bored is universal, except for the occasional few that try and dance.

quoted 7 lines I want to see a laptop orchestra. That would be hott. If there

> I want to see a laptop orchestra. That would be hott. If there >were no beats, or maybe everyone were synched to the same midi >tempo >controller ... would that be doable? Ten guys with laptops, each tweaking >their software synths and patterns. Hmm. It could be very cool >for >improv-microsound music (which is a currently running topic on that list), >and maybe give things a more spontaneous feel than just one >person >arranging the sound.

It would still be boring visually, but I would be interested in hearing what might come out of it.

quoted 1 line Some DJs use the same sounds in all their tunes, for years on end.

> Some DJs use the same sounds in all their tunes, for years on end.

Some do, a lot of the good ones will do doubles and interesting layering. Many of the tunes Richie Hawtin play are in a similar vein, yet he does a good job making it interesting.

quoted 1 line DJs are glorified jukeboxes.

>DJs are glorified jukeboxes.

Bad ones are. You obviously don't know what you are talking about when it comes to good djs. Either that or your local area is filled with crap djs, and/or idm djs.

quoted 1 line They play prerecorded material for people to dance to.

>They play prerecorded material for people to dance to.

Ever seen someone on three tables? Some djs can do some brilliant stuff.

quoted 4 lines But when you have people who hit 'play' on the laptop and we go to see them

>But when you have people who hit 'play' on the laptop and we go to see them >for purposes of hearing the new tunes (most of the reason I go to shows), I >guess you could argue it's not really any >different from seeing whatever >big name junglist for the sake of >dubplate fetishism.

Except for the way the dj mixes, the sound & the vibe (oh and the booty). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 12:31 PM 9/14/2000 -0700, Ron Jeremy wrote:

quoted 7 lines Watching musicians grimace and lean into the microphone and spin

>>Watching musicians grimace and lean into the microphone and spin >>in >circles while playing guitars isn't even remotely entertaining to me. > >Are you saying you have never seen a band EVER that has been interesting >live? I have seen plenty that have either been great to watch or very >entertaining visually. I can wholeheartedly say I would take a Pink Floyd >concert over a mouse session anyday.

Okay, so I engaged in a bit of hyperbole. Yeah, I've seen bands that were engaging to see (certainly moreso than watching a spacebar get tapped every ten minutes). But that's the minority of bands, and usually what I see is the cheesy jumping up and down by the numbers hair swinging type stuff. It just isn't that amusing to me anymore. A band who is really tight and really into the music is contagious, to be sure, but that's just such the minority of bands I see. I wasn't trying to talk smack about bands as much as point out that, for me anyway, watching a couple guys with tousled hair and sweaters gazing at their shoes as they play is about as boring as watching mouse clicking. IDM shows aren't any new frontier in boringness as far as I'm concerned.

quoted 3 lines For one thing the sound & visuals tends to be better. The age group isn't

>For one thing the sound & visuals tends to be better. The age group isn't >particularly appealing. Neither is the tendency for it to be more about >drugs, then the music. But you can't have everything.

Yeah. It was wishful thinking. A larger group of people and a more interactive space, if it could be less of a group massage set to trance music, would be my ideal.

quoted 1 line Chill out areas are cool, kind of a thing of the past it seems.

>Chill out areas are cool, kind of a thing of the past it seems.

I don't even remember the last time I saw a chill room at a party, and yet *everyone* in the world loves them. I don't get it. Promoters? It seems to me that a lot of the chin-scratchy IDM and micro stuff could be the "new ambient" within that ravey context, though it might get too easily drowned out by the 5000000 watts of booming deep house in the next room. Lots of places to sit down comfortably in the dark and listen to chain reaction at a party? Yes please!

quoted 6 lines DJs are glorified jukeboxes.

>>DJs are glorified jukeboxes. > >Bad ones are. > >You obviously don't know what you are talking about when it comes to good >djs. Either that or your local area is filled with crap djs, and/or idm djs.

No, I know all too well what I'm talking about when it comes to *most* DJs. Not all DJs are jukeboxes, just almost all. It's a complicated craft, and there's some motor trickiness in getting everything lined up, but generally it's just playing tunes. There's a few DJs out there who do interesting things with vinyl, but the majority of the time, I am pretty underwhelmed by the over-glorified art of DJing. I was more trying to point out that this is pretty much just what the average laptop set consists of. Yeah, some people are crazy interactive, but many are going song 1->song 2->song 3 and they could just as well be mixing acetates. Ultimately, I don't even care that much. I would rather be in a cool environment with an engaged crowd and something to look at or something to do and hear good music. I'll take an ass-destroying "click play" set of great music over watching some goa guys masturbate over a rack of synths, wildly twisting knobs and arpeggiating left and right only to produce some mediocre trance. ---- "A typewriter is more architectural than all those building projects which win prizes at academies and competitions." - Giacomo Balla [http://spof.net] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org