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Re: [idm] IDM now/Orientalization of DSP

7 messages · 6 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: idm now · idm now/orientalization of dsp
2000-09-09 16:34Matt ___ [idm] IDM now
├─ 2000-09-09 17:02Catfish Gil Re: [idm] IDM now
├─ 2000-09-09 17:45EggyToast Re: [idm] IDM now
│ └─ 2000-09-09 18:37Ed Hall Re: [idm] IDM now
└─ 2000-09-09 20:01Ed Hall Re: [idm] IDM now
└─ 2000-09-11 14:56Kent williams Re: [idm] IDM now
└─ 2000-09-11 15:44Josh Davison Re: [idm] IDM now/Orientalization of DSP
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2000-09-09 16:34Matt ___The problem with most IDM and electronic music nowadays is that the human feel and sound h
From:
Matt ___
To:
Date:
Sat, 09 Sep 2000 11:34:54 CDT
Subject:
[idm] IDM now
permalink · <F52N4MmXKCnzNwRC6Hi00006748@hotmail.com>
The problem with most IDM and electronic music nowadays is that the human feel and sound has been taken out of it. Now that everyone is using trackers and software of the sort, MIDI has been gridded and segmented so everything is programed and sounds like it is right out of a computer. This really shortens the lengths to which electronic music can be taken. Down with software, back with Hardware! qestseq _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-09 17:02Catfish GilOh this isn't an ignorant post :) Last night I tried a demo of reaktor for the first time.
From:
Catfish Gil
To:
IDM list
Date:
Sat, 9 Sep 2000 13:02:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM now
Reply to:
[idm] IDM now
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.10.10009091254130.15645-100000@nowhere.fragment.com>
Oh this isn't an ignorant post :) Last night I tried a demo of reaktor for the first time. Cool as hell, but now I understand that since so many people are using the same, fully capable tools, it's no wonder that a lot of stuff sounds similar. 'course music created entirely inside a comptur has years of innovation left, but I agree w.matt. it's a combination of using ALL posible tools that yields great new ideas. a little more hardware in the idm scene wouldn't hurt at all. But then again, I think we need to get away from the notion that it's the noise creating modules that drive the sound of the music - the composition tools have way more influence. 'course there's something incredibly liberating about being able to compose exicting new works from just one box (eg laptop). Personally, with what l'usine and arovane (to name a few) are doing with the mixing and mingling of very acousic sounds in idm seems pretty exciting. It's getting away from such purely artificial music. Listen closely, it's a nice new direction that I hope a few others will pick up on :) -Gil On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Matt ___ wrote:
quoted 19 lines The problem with most IDM and electronic music nowadays is that the human> The problem with most IDM and electronic music nowadays is that the human > feel and sound has been taken out of it. Now that everyone is using trackers > and software of the sort, MIDI has been gridded and segmented so everything > is programed and sounds like it is right out of a computer. This really > shortens the lengths to which electronic music can be taken. > > Down with software, back with Hardware! > qestseq > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2000-09-09 17:45EggyToast> >Down with software, back with Hardware! or even better... Down With MIDI!! :) cheers, \
From:
EggyToast
To:
Matt ___ ,
Date:
Sat, 09 Sep 2000 12:45:29 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM now
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[idm] IDM now
permalink · <4.3.2.7.1.20000909124504.00a91410@youn0394.email.umn.edu>
quoted 2 lines Down with software, back with Hardware!> >Down with software, back with Hardware!
or even better... Down With MIDI!! :) cheers, \derek ----------- "Extremism is no vice when God's on your side" -Opus the Penguin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-09 18:37Ed HallEggyToast <youn0394@umn.edu> wrote: : [ "Matt ___" <qestseq@hotmail.com> wrote: ] : >Down
From:
Ed Hall
To:
Informed Dogs Masturbate
Date:
Sat, 09 Sep 2000 11:37:33 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM now
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Re: [idm] IDM now
permalink · <200009091837.LAA12471@screech.weirdnoise.com>
EggyToast <youn0394@umn.edu> wrote: : [ "Matt ___" <qestseq@hotmail.com> wrote: ] : >Down with software, back with Hardware! : : or even better... : : Down With MIDI!! Down with electricity!! Acoustic IDM is the future!!! -Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-09 20:01Ed Hall"Matt ___" <qestseq@hotmail.com> wrote: : The problem with most IDM and electronic music n
From:
Ed Hall
To:
Ill-tempered Deity Materializes
Date:
Sat, 09 Sep 2000 13:01:08 -0700
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM now
Reply to:
[idm] IDM now
permalink · <200009092001.NAA12908@screech.weirdnoise.com>
"Matt ___" <qestseq@hotmail.com> wrote: : The problem with most IDM and electronic music nowadays is that the human : feel and sound has been taken out of it. Not quite. The problem with most IDM and electronic music nowadays is that many artists no longer are putting "the human feel and sound" back into it. But I don't think you can blame the tools for the laziness of those who use them. Software doesn't make the humanization of music any harder -- it never was easy, and never will be easy, whatever the medium. But the techniques will have to be different. And it might be the case that "humanization" isn't always what's missing when music goes flat. Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. Let's say that Musician Bob uses the Woodmaker Fractalizer to generate a five- minute musical fractal (whatever that is). Using its intuitive GUI interface, he selected from dozen of parameters and in less than an hour came up with a product that virtually set his ears on fire. Bob hears so much of interest in his new sound-product that he makes it a track on his new "Bob's Throbbing Blobs" CD. Bob's many fans listen to the track, and many of them also find it so interesting that their ears are also ablaze. What's missing from this picture, if anything? I'm sure some folks would say that absolutely nothing is missing -- Bob's fans expect to be taken on a thrilling sonic ride by his CD's, and he delivered. But others might say that something vital is missing. Where's Bob? The most one can say is that Bob "discovered" the track somewhere inside the Woodmaker Fractalizer after an hour of exploring and listening. Perhaps the situation is best described in terms of the sound-product itself. We experience it much as Bob did -- as a discovery. And the discovery is as much ours as his. We gain no insight into Bob's experiences, ideas, or intents, other than his ability to recognize a sound-product that we also find enjoyable. Bob didn't interpret the musical fractal, or adorn it, or do anything to share his experience of it. Not a drop of his "humanity" is there. Frankly, I have no problem with this situation. My excitement and interest in a piece of music depend as much on my own humanity as that of the musicians (and sometimes programmers) who create the music. Though I'd find a steady diet of such work to be dry and lifeless, I'd be bored by a steady diet of any one musical form. Variety isn't just the spice of life, it is its meat. -Ed -Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-11 14:56Kent williamsYou're describing two concepts that Brian Eno has written about: 1. Technology makes techn
From:
Kent williams
To:
Ed Hall
Cc:
Ill-tempered Deity Materializes
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:56:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM now
Reply to:
Re: [idm] IDM now
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.1000911094532.23434D-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
You're describing two concepts that Brian Eno has written about: 1. Technology makes technique less important, and the act of selection from 'found' alternatives becomes more important. 2. Eno has an idea of a black box with knobs on that continuously generates music, that the listener tweaks until it makes the music he or she wants to hear. There's nothing wrong with this sort of generative music. It doesn't replace human virtuosity; it's a different category On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Ed Hall wrote:
quoted 15 lines Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. Let's say> > Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. Let's say > that Musician Bob uses the Woodmaker Fractalizer to generate a five- > minute musical fractal (whatever that is). Using its intuitive GUI > interface, he selected from dozen of parameters and in less than an > hour came up with a product that virtually set his ears on fire. > > What's missing from this picture, if anything? I'm sure some folks > would say that absolutely nothing is missing -- Bob's fans expect to > be taken on a thrilling sonic ride by his CD's, and he delivered. > But others might say that something vital is missing. Where's Bob? > The most one can say is that Bob "discovered" the track somewhere > inside the Woodmaker Fractalizer after an hour of exploring and > listening. >
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2000-09-11 15:44Josh DavisonThere a principle known as "Orientalization" in art: when an exciting new technique or sty
From:
Josh Davison
To:
Kent williams
Cc:
Ed Hall , Ill-tempered Deity Materializes
Date:
Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:44:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM now/Orientalization of DSP
Reply to:
Re: [idm] IDM now
permalink · <Pine.NEB.3.96.1000911100240.73686B-100000@shell-3.enteract.com>
There a principle known as "Orientalization" in art: when an exciting new technique or style is developed (or in some cases, discovered), neophytes have trouble distinguishing the new technique from the creative process. The term "Orientalization" comes from the early days of transcontinental commerce between Europe and Asia, when people would buy artwork from the Orient simply on the grounds that it came from the Orient rather than on the grounds that it was good art. This principle holds true today. For example: "The Mind's Eye" video (circa 1987?) featuring tacky animated tableaus of 3d computer-generated models "coming to life" before your eyes to the gut-wrenchingly saccharine synth-puke of Jan Hammer. Absolutely 100% style and no substance. People bought this like mad because it was the first time many of them could see "space age" computer techniques used in a "work of art." Granted my views on this are tainted by the fancy CG techniques used in more contemporary movies like "The Phantom Menace," but the principle holds true with that film as well. The focus of both "The Mind's Eye" and scenes like the underwater journey in "The Phantom Menace" is primarily the technology behind the creation of the work rather than any narrative concept. In 10 years, the graphics used in "The Phantom Menace" will look as tacky and dated as those used in "The Mind's Eye" and the movie will still suffer from the lack of a coherent plot. The same concept holds true in modern contemporary electronic music. A significant portion of the DSP/Glitch/Generative music created these days showcases the output of the software rather than the vision of the musician. Granted, in many cases the vision of the musician IS the output of the software because the process is so new that it is difficult to see past the novelty of the sound. The use of new technology doesn't neccessarily detract from the artistic merit of the work created with such technology. Especially after the novelty wears off, artists find ways to utilize new media to advance their art rather than using it as the focus of their art. -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Kent williams wrote:
quoted 34 lines You're describing two concepts that Brian Eno has written about:> You're describing two concepts that Brian Eno has written about: > > 1. Technology makes technique less important, and the act of selection > from 'found' alternatives becomes more important. > 2. Eno has an idea of a black box with knobs on that continuously generates > music, that the listener tweaks until it makes the music he or she > wants to hear. > > There's nothing wrong with this sort of generative music. It doesn't replace > human virtuosity; it's a different category > > On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Ed Hall wrote: > > > > Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. Let's say > > that Musician Bob uses the Woodmaker Fractalizer to generate a five- > > minute musical fractal (whatever that is). Using its intuitive GUI > > interface, he selected from dozen of parameters and in less than an > > hour came up with a product that virtually set his ears on fire. > > > > What's missing from this picture, if anything? I'm sure some folks > > would say that absolutely nothing is missing -- Bob's fans expect to > > be taken on a thrilling sonic ride by his CD's, and he delivered. > > But others might say that something vital is missing. Where's Bob? > > The most one can say is that Bob "discovered" the track somewhere > > inside the Woodmaker Fractalizer after an hour of exploring and > > listening. > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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