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Did everyone know that ep7 was all programmed sound fractals (I find that INCREDIBLE, being a fellow musician and programmer). The amount of programming necessary to create organic sounding music. Basically ... well... They spent a lot of time programming that amazing work of sound art. You really need to listen to each part individually through the entire CD (drums, synth, random noises, dynamical changes) to understand it. There are so many little errors and blips in the background that are almost invisible to the untrained eye ear. The errors that they placed in the algorithm to make it sound more natural ... well I could talk forever about all of this... Have a good one, Nick ps. I just recently got incunabula, reminds me of saw2 a little (a very little) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

DynamiCell@aol.com wrote: : Did everyone know that ep7 was all programmed sound fractals (I find that : INCREDIBLE, being a fellow musician and programmer). The amount of : programming necessary to create organic sounding music. Basically ... : well... They spent a lot of time programming that amazing work of sound art. : You really need to listen to each part individually through the entire CD : (drums, synth, random noises, dynamical changes) to understand it. There are : so many little errors and blips in the background that are almost invisible : to the untrained eye ear. The errors that they placed in the algorithm to : make it sound more natural ... well I could talk forever about all of this... I find it incredible, too -- in the original sense of that word: "not credible." What's your source on this? Although I'd not be too surprised to find that AE used some fractal techniques in creating some of the sequences they used for some of their tracks, there is a lot more to making "organic sounding music" than adding some "errors" to a fractal algorithm. The timbres and overall structure of the EP7 tracks have nothing to do with fractals; neither do the basic melodies and harmonies. These are cut from the same cloth as LP5, Cichlisuite, and to a lesser extent Chiastic Slide. Fractals can be an aid to composition (they are much more useful than just raw random sequences, IMHO), but deriving a rhythmic or melodic sequence from them is hardly equivalent to constructing an entire track that way. However, they can create a texture around which the rest of the track is built, and some of AE's tracks sound like they might have been done that way. Music theorists have spent a lot of time and paper looking for fractal patterns in music, and like theories based on Markov chains, generative grammars, and other such mathematics, there are definitely things that can be found using such techniques. And some musicians use algorithms based on these theories (and others, such as neural nets, fuzzy logic, etc) to create music. I've yet to hear a composition based solely on such algorithms that was musically satisfying, but it is quite possible to use them as a component of a piece and create satisfying music. And, in fact, it would surprise me if AE *wasn't* using algorithmic composition in some of their tracks. But as the sole basis of a track, much less a 60+ minute EP -- I really, really doubt it. -Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

While I've never dealth with fractals, and anything more than just tones, I've played around with mathematical formulae back in the college days as far as programatically generating tones within a given range. Speaking as a math geek and a music geek, I hate to say the results were, more often than not, pretty dull. But that's to be expected, of course. (Again, I was just dealing with tones -- or something that would be just one out of a gazillion tracks comprising a typical track we'd talk about here, so take this with a micron of salt.) The most interesting equations were ones associated with physics, chemistry, or astronomy. Things involving rigorous mathematics (your bell curve formulae, your quadratic formulae) were the ones that usually didn't sound as interesting. It does really depend on *how* you use these formulae of course, so I don't mean to dis my mathemetic bruthas and sistas. :) And I'm not saying any of this to discourage folks from using raw math to make music.. In fact, I encourage it. But as long as raw math isn't the *only* thing that involved in creating the music. It's the fine tuning, tweaking, and subsequent human input that will make pieces like this interesting and memorable... (again, all IMHO) Speaking of which, my *very first* record I ever bought (for 25 cents at a garage sale) when I was 9 years old was this astronomical data simulation record called "Johannes Kepler's Harmony Of The Worlds". Each track essentially combines the vibrations, tones, and beats generated by the nine planets, using each planet's size, radius of orbit, orbit angle, etc. as parameters to the sounds each would generate. All combined, the results were pretty damn disturbing. Coil wished they could make bowels churn like this record. And this is coming from a Coil fan. :) ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> KUCI 88.9 fM in Irvine, CA -- Orange County "Zee Robot attacked zee computer -- in zee outer space...!" ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

ohhh dude, youre totally right. :P nice title btw, ahah :) i was actually thinking of incorporating fractals otherwise, structurally. ie, number of measures, key change, chord change, etc. but yeh nothigns exciting about some parabolae :P lates ian/delphi

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> -----Original Message----- > From: Brian MacDonald [mailto:brianm@kuci.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 1:10 PM > To: Insanity Defense Materializes > Subject: [idm] f e^MUSIC x dx / Solar System rock > > > > While I've never dealth with fractals, and anything more than just tones, > I've played around with mathematical formulae back in the college days as > far as programatically generating tones within a given range. > > Speaking as a math geek and a music geek, I hate to say the results were, > more often than not, pretty dull. But that's to be expected, of course. > (Again, I was just dealing with tones -- or something that would be just > one out of a gazillion tracks comprising a typical track we'd talk about > here, so take this with a micron of salt.) > > The most interesting equations were ones associated with physics, > chemistry, or astronomy. Things involving rigorous mathematics (your > bell curve formulae, your quadratic formulae) were the ones that usually > didn't sound as interesting. It does really depend on *how* you use these > formulae of course, so I don't mean to dis my mathemetic bruthas and > sistas. :) > > And I'm not saying any of this to discourage folks from using raw math to > make music.. In fact, I encourage it. But as long as raw math isn't the > *only* thing that involved in creating the music. It's the fine tuning, > tweaking, and subsequent human input that will make pieces like this > interesting and memorable... (again, all IMHO) > > Speaking of which, my *very first* record I ever bought (for 25 cents at a > garage sale) when I was 9 years old was this astronomical data simulation > record called "Johannes Kepler's Harmony Of The Worlds". Each track > essentially combines the vibrations, tones, and beats generated by the > nine planets, using each planet's size, radius of orbit, orbit angle, etc. > as parameters to the sounds each would generate. All combined, the > results were pretty damn disturbing. Coil wished they could make bowels > churn like this record. And this is coming from a Coil fan. :) > > ======================================================================= > Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> > KUCI 88.9 fM in Irvine, CA -- Orange County > > "Zee Robot attacked zee computer -- in zee outer space...!" > ======================================================================= > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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