IDM Mailing Archive

Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the drain lately? Overall: 'Music Is Rotted...' was great, lots of interesting noises, depth and development (and kept it up over 15 tracks); 'Budakhan Mindphone' was okay, beautiful first track but didn't really hang together; 'Maximum Priest' was average, with not enough development and too many 'well, I've got this, why not stick it in' moments; and 'Selection Sixteen', apart from Square Rave, Schizm Track #1 and Time Borb, was awful - effortless jazz bits, aimless drumrolls, painful noises. About 13 tracks too long in my opinion. Is he going down the Quantity Not Quality route, or is just running out of inspiration? James Roberts (aka ISDS) ------ http://listen.to/isds www.mp3.com/isds --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Sun, 19 Dec 1999, James Roberts wrote:

quoted 3 lines Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the drain

> Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the drain > lately? Overall: >

You've got that list ass-backwards. 'Music is Rotted..' is the worst pile of steaming shit I've heard in recent years, and Tommy has managed to crawl his way back to tolerable mediocrity with Selection 16. 'Feed Me Weird Things' .... sigh... those were the days. - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety minutes. This much is fact. Everything else is just theory. " --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Sun, 19 Dec 1999, wells wrote:

quoted 5 lines You've got that list ass-backwards. 'Music is Rotted..' is the worst pile

> You've got that list ass-backwards. 'Music is Rotted..' is the worst pile > of steaming shit I've heard in recent years, and Tommy has managed to > crawl his way back to tolerable mediocrity with Selection 16. > > 'Feed Me Weird Things' .... sigh... those were the days.

I never thought I'd see the day that I agree w/ you wells - either I'm losing it or ... I won't go there. It looks like Tom J's head is so far up his ass now that he may never find his way out. Someone please feed him a green leafy salad. At least Chaos AD was so annoying it's fun, but I got the impression that those tracks were culled from old cassettes, and are not an indication of what he might do in the future. Sigh. Che --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

ABsolutely, I have to agree. Music is Rotted was just terrible. Anyone who thinks Music is Rotted was any good has been caught in the trap of buying what ever Tom puts out and thinks it is awesome. The criticism Music is Rotted received is well deserved, and whether that affected Tom, and made him try to repair the damage with Selection Sixteen, only the Mr Jenkinson can tell us. Mikey -----Original Message----- From: wells [mailto:s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu] Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 06:00 To: James Roberts Cc: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (idm) Squarepusher quality control On Sun, 19 Dec 1999, James Roberts wrote:

quoted 1 line Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the

> Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the

drain

quoted 2 lines lately? Overall:

> lately? Overall: >

You've got that list ass-backwards. 'Music is Rotted..' is the worst pile of steaming shit I've heard in recent years, and Tommy has managed to crawl his way back to tolerable mediocrity with Selection 16. 'Feed Me Weird Things' .... sigh... those were the days. - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety minutes. This much is fact. Everything else is just theory. " --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I'm sorry but I have to get involved in this one. Seriously, who are you to say these things? No one ever has a right to publicly judge someone the way you just did. If you feel like genralizing about someone's livelihood, do it in a less public forum. It would be unfortunate if I listened to the songs you have on your posted mp3.com address and then filpantly blew them off. -Lee Azzarello *not trying to be famous, simply heard* On Sun, 19 Dec 1999, James Roberts wrote:

quoted 26 lines Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the drain

> Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the drain > lately? Overall: > > 'Music Is Rotted...' was great, lots of interesting noises, depth and > development (and kept it up over 15 tracks); > 'Budakhan Mindphone' was okay, beautiful first track but didn't really hang > together; > 'Maximum Priest' was average, with not enough development and too many > 'well, I've got this, why not stick it in' moments; > and 'Selection Sixteen', apart from Square Rave, Schizm Track #1 and Time > Borb, was awful - effortless jazz bits, aimless drumrolls, painful noises. > About 13 tracks too long in my opinion. > > Is he going down the Quantity Not Quality route, or is just running out of > inspiration? > > James Roberts (aka ISDS) > ------ > http://listen.to/isds > www.mp3.com/isds > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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I canot agree with it at all. The truth is that... 'Music Is Rotted...' - is just a direct name for this album, it is as shitty as hell, poor attempt to be new Miles Davis. Anyone willing to buy it in mint condition? 'Budakhan Mindphone' - is a breath of new air for him, he finally found what he was going to become. 'Maximum Priest' is just excellent release in his new music outfit. Great music from all angles - from jazz and drum&bass ones. 'Selection Sixteen' I anticipate to receive and hope it'll be at least as good as 'Maximum Priest'. Alien commenting.... P.S. Anyone not shaing this opinion please do not mail reply to this message. It's useless.

quoted 35 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: James Roberts [mailto:james@robertsyork.freeserve.co.uk] > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 7:08 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: (idm) Squarepusher quality control > > > Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down > the drain > lately? Overall: > > 'Music Is Rotted...' was great, lots of interesting noises, depth and > development (and kept it up over 15 tracks); > 'Budakhan Mindphone' was okay, beautiful first track but didn't > really hang > together; > 'Maximum Priest' was average, with not enough development and too many > 'well, I've got this, why not stick it in' moments; > and 'Selection Sixteen', apart from Square Rave, Schizm Track #1 and Time > Borb, was awful - effortless jazz bits, aimless drumrolls, painful noises. > About 13 tracks too long in my opinion. > > Is he going down the Quantity Not Quality route, or is just running out of > inspiration? > > James Roberts (aka ISDS) > ------ > http://listen.to/isds > www.mp3.com/isds > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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On 19/12/99 11:07, James Roberts said in living color:

quoted 15 lines Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the drain

> Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the drain > lately? Overall: > > 'Music Is Rotted...' was great, lots of interesting noises, depth and > development (and kept it up over 15 tracks); > 'Budakhan Mindphone' was okay, beautiful first track but didn't really hang > together; > 'Maximum Priest' was average, with not enough development and too many > 'well, I've got this, why not stick it in' moments; > and 'Selection Sixteen', apart from Square Rave, Schizm Track #1 and Time > Borb, was awful - effortless jazz bits, aimless drumrolls, painful noises. > About 13 tracks too long in my opinion. > > Is he going down the Quantity Not Quality route, or is just running out of > inspiration?

I think those two hypothesis's are not mutually exclusive... I completely agree with you. Big Loada is probably his best release, closely followed by Music Is Rotted... Budakhan Mindphone tried to explore another new path but didn't push the explorations very far. Maximum Priest tried to reconcile different styles but did not succeed at all. And I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who finds Selection Sixteen boring, after seeing all those "Squarepusher is back" comments... g. -- Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca in space there is no north in space there is no south in space there is no east in space there is no west --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

<< I think he's relized that whatever he does people are going to buy it so he can drop the quality control and still make the fat bucks. Often times prolific and quality control don't seem to go hand in hand. Warp probably puts 10 demos a week in the trash that knock the socks off of some of their bigger names output.>> I'm far from being his biggest fan, but you call Mr Jenkinson financially minded over my dead body. We are talking about a man who put his royalty cheques in a shoebox under his bed and forgot about them. This is a man who cares deeply about his music, and while you can critcise it if you like, it is insulting to say that he is putting out tracks that he knows to be substandard. Maybe he's going through a bad patch: we know that he's capable of genius, and will probably do something incredible in the future, so it's reasonable that we tolerate this for the moment. Maybe he's right, and we'll be kicking ourselves in five years for failing to appreciate the great albums of the decade. Either way, it's hardly criminal that Warp haven't given him his marching orders. If there's stuff out there that Warp should be putting out, then thats fine: there are dozens of other labels who should be equally happy to release it. Failing that... welcome to the cyber age! Flog mp3s, or mail order cds. It may not have the promotional budget of Warp, but hey, where did they start. Besides, the chief advantage of a big label is that they can hawk more units. And we don't want to be all financial do we? Grrr Jorkens --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

component records http://www.mindstorm.com/component ----- Original Message ----- From: James Roberts <james@robertsyork.freeserve.co.uk> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 8:07 AM Subject: (idm) Squarepusher quality control

quoted 1 line Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the

> Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just been going down the

drain

quoted 4 lines lately? Overall:

> lately? Overall: > > 'Music Is Rotted...' was great, lots of interesting noises, depth and > development (and kept it up over 15 tracks);

This one took me a while to warm up to but its really grown on me. I think my intial problem with it was that it was such a complete departure from his previous work

quoted 1 line 'Budakhan Mindphone' was okay, beautiful first track but didn't really

> 'Budakhan Mindphone' was okay, beautiful first track but didn't really

hang

quoted 1 line together;

> together;

Agreed, two bass hit is great but its a downward spiral after that.

quoted 5 lines 'Maximum Priest' was average, with not enough development and too many

> 'Maximum Priest' was average, with not enough development and too many > 'well, I've got this, why not stick it in' moments; > and 'Selection Sixteen', apart from Square Rave, Schizm Track #1 and Time > Borb, was awful - effortless jazz bits, aimless drumrolls, painful noises. > About 13 tracks too long in my opinion.

I'm pretty partial to tracks 4 and 5 but alot of stuf on that Ep/CD is like you said aimless and kinda wanky.

quoted 2 lines Is he going down the Quantity Not Quality route, or is just running out of

> Is he going down the Quantity Not Quality route, or is just running out of > inspiration?

I think he's relized that whatever he does people are going to buy it so he can drop the quality control and still make the fat bucks. Often times prolific and quality control don't seem to go hand in hand. Warp probably puts 10 demos a week in the trash that knock the socks off of some of their bigger names output. Rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Perhaps this is a bit harsh. I've enjoyed _MIRON_ and the two eps as much, if not more, than _Feed Me Weird Things_ and the batch of early Warp singles. The newer Tom J is simply moving in a different direction than those early releases. I think parts of the _Music is Rotted ..._, _Budakhan Mindphone_, and Maximum Priest_ trio are detectable in his earlier releases - does that make them any better to your ears? Probably not, but this shellacking of Squarepusher strikes a chord with me. Where's Kelley to defend our man Tom? Sorry to add little to this conversation, but even if you don't like Squarepusher's current output, there are still exceptional skills at work in its' production. His use of space is better than most dub masters, and the touch of melody hasn't deserted him. Call them works in progress, call them crap, call them what-you-will. I will call them good.

quoted 3 lines It looks like Tom J's head is so far up his ass now that he may never

>It looks like Tom J's head is so far up his ass now that he may never >find >his way out. Someone please feed him a green leafy salad.

np: New Orleans Saints vs. Baltimore Ravens "I am an acme of things accomplished, and I an encloser of things to be." Walt Whitman, _Leaves of Grass_ Join The Party @www.cpusa.org ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

James R McPherson <andregurov@juno.com> wrote:

quoted 14 lines Perhaps this is a bit harsh. I've enjoyed _MIRON_ and the two eps as

>Perhaps this is a bit harsh. I've enjoyed _MIRON_ and the two eps as >much, if not more, than _Feed Me Weird Things_ and the batch of early >Warp singles. The newer Tom J is simply moving in a different direction >than those early releases. I think parts of the _Music is Rotted ..._, >_Budakhan Mindphone_, and Maximum Priest_ trio are detectable in his >earlier releases - does that make them any better to your ears? Probably >not, but this shellacking of Squarepusher strikes a chord with me. >Where's Kelley to defend our man Tom? >Sorry to add little to this conversation, but even if you don't like >Squarepusher's current output, there are still exceptional skills at work >in its' production. His use of space is better than most dub masters, >and the touch of melody hasn't deserted him. Call them works in >progress, call them crap, call them what-you-will. I will call them >good.

Finally some sensible thoughts about Squarepusher. Those trashing his recent work are analogous to the same squares who lamented Miles Davis' evolution in the late 60s to the more spacious, psychedelic music he produced on _Bitches Brew_ and the albums that followed it through 1975's _Pangaea_. To expect Jenkinson to keep replicating _Feed Me Weird Things_ or _Big Loada_ ad infinitum is ludicrous. Dave Segal Managing Editor/Alternative Press Reviews/BPM/Reissue Redux/Origins Of Cool Secret Ions on WCSB Thursdays 9-11PM EST www.wcsb.org np: rawfrucht- 2 [sub rosa] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Sun, 19 Dec 1999, Dave Segal wrote:

quoted 7 lines Finally some sensible thoughts about Squarepusher. Those

> Finally some sensible thoughts about Squarepusher. Those > trashing his recent work are analogous to the same squares who > lamented Miles Davis' evolution in the late 60s to the > more spacious, psychedelic music he produced on _Bitches Brew_ and the > albums that followed it through 1975's _Pangaea_. To expect > Jenkinson to keep replicating _Feed Me Weird Things_ or > _Big Loada_ ad infinitum is ludicrous.

Nope, wrong. Squarepusher's recent output is shit, Miles Davis's Bitches Brew is not. Therefore, there isn't really any sort of analogy to be made. Sorry, better luck next time. - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety minutes. This much is fact. Everything else is just theory. " --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 7 lines Finally some sensible thoughts about Squarepusher. Those

>Finally some sensible thoughts about Squarepusher. Those >trashing his recent work are analogous to the same squares who >lamented Miles Davis' evolution in the late 60s to the >more spacious, psychedelic music he produced on _Bitches Brew_ and the >albums that followed it through 1975's _Pangaea_. To expect >Jenkinson to keep replicating _Feed Me Weird Things_ or >_Big Loada_ ad infinitum is ludicrous.

since when are hard-bop fans "squares"? :) unfortunately miles davis beat mr. jenkinson to the punch by about 30 years. i preferred jenkinson when he was doing stuff that sounded like nothing else in the world (okay, except for jaco pastorius in a blender). his newer material sounds a little too much like miles for my taste. and i believe that miles is the kind of artist that did it so well that any musical nods, especially ones as gratuitous as MIRON and after, are dangerously close to being simple copies. i understand that any artist as obsessed with music as jenkinson was bound to get bored with his early sound, but it's also safe to say that nothing after "big loada" would have made it onto ANY label if it weren't for the fact that it was the famous Squarepusher making it. and, for the record, i personally think that the above referenced time in Miles' career is easily the least interesting, which may have something to do with my feelings on the newer SP material. -------------- 1642 try 621 -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines I'm far from being his biggest fan, but you call Mr Jenkinson financially

> I'm far from being his biggest fan, but you call Mr Jenkinson financially > minded over my dead body. We are talking about a man who put his royalty > cheques in a shoebox under his bed and forgot about them. This is a man

who

quoted 1 line cares deeply about his music, and while you can critcise it if you like,

> cares deeply about his music, and while you can critcise it if you like,

it

quoted 4 lines is insulting to say that he is putting out tracks that he knows to be

> is insulting to say that he is putting out tracks that he knows to be > substandard. > Maybe he's going through a bad patch: we know that he's capable of genius, > and will probably do something incredible in the future, so it's

reasonable

quoted 1 line that we tolerate this for the moment.

> that we tolerate this for the moment.

Well my point was, his stuff has gone down hill and yet the number of releases the man has put out has increased 3 fold. There are tracks on all of his recent releases that I really like, however they are over shadowed by a bunch of stuff that just sounds thrown together. Well I guess the thing is with all the brilliant stuff coming out today, its just becoming harder to tolerate medocrity Rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

jeff shoemaker wrote:

quoted 7 lines unfortunately miles davis beat mr. jenkinson to the punch by about 30 years.

> unfortunately miles davis beat mr. jenkinson to the punch by about 30 years. > i preferred jenkinson when he was doing stuff that sounded like nothing else > in the world (okay, except for jaco pastorius in a blender). his newer > material sounds a little too much like miles for my taste. and i believe > that miles is the kind of artist that did it so well that any musical nods, > especially ones as gratuitous as MIRON and after, are dangerously close to > being simple copies.

My sentiments exactly. It sounds like a Bitches Brew knockoff and doesn't really add much to it. The only track I've liked from MIRON forward is "Iambic 5 Poetry" - I haven't bothered to pick up 'Selection Sixteen' since I've been so disappointed the past few releases. He's a really great musician; I think he's capable of much more imaginative work than recycled fusion jazz. GD --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I didn't want to have to get involved in this thread but I really must express that I think those of you condemning Squarepusher's later works are missing the point entirely. Of course this is a public forum and you can express what you want, but realize that Tom Jenkinsen isnot making music for YOU, he's making it for HIM. He isn't making much money AT ALL and neither is any IDM artist. He'd remix celine dion if he wanted to do that. I also think that the stuff will grow on those who allow it to. I think it's great that he's expanding his jazz influences, and SO WHAT if it sounds like Miles Davis??? I think TJ would take that as quite a compliment and you should realize that perhaps he is still evolving and is imitating his influences to absorb them and will re-emit them in a more original form in the future. The man is a genius and should be given room to experiment. That's all that is going on so everyone quit being all constipated about it. Plasmon: intelligent sparkling melodies, beats, harmonies, etc... http://www.mp3.com/plasmon/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Lee Azzarello <roswell@antioch-college.edu> wrote:

quoted 2 lines I'm sorry but I have to get involved in this one.

> I'm sorry but I have to get involved in this one. > Seriously, who are you to say these things?

Hey Lee, this is a mailing list for discussing music isn't it? Everyone on this list should feel free to share their thoughts and opinions. "Seriously" mate. It's alot more interesting hearing different sides. I would rather hear someone being honest and critical, then just saying it's good because the artist's history. Good musicians do occasionally release dodgy material. There is nothing wrong with giving an honest opinion.

quoted 1 line No one ever has a right to publicly judge someone

> No one ever has a right to publicly judge someone

the

quoted 1 line way you just did.

> way you just did.

Why not? It's an opinion. I'm not taking sides on whether Squarepusher is sliding off or not. I'm talking more in the principle of what you brought up.. that people should be able to discuss things honestly (even if the mass don't agree).

quoted 2 lines If you feel like genralizing about someone's

> If you feel like genralizing about someone's > livelihood, do it in a less public forum.

Why? This is a forum for music discussion. You should be a little more secure in your tastes, to not be threatened by differences of opinions. Sorry, i'm sick of hearing this kind of crap. I would rather people speak honestly about music whether it's positive or negative.

quoted 41 lines It would be unfortunate if I listened to the

> It would be unfortunate if I listened to the > songs you have on your posted mp3.com address and > then filpantly blew them off. > -Lee Azzarello > *not trying to be famous, simply heard* > > > On Sun, 19 Dec 1999, James Roberts wrote: > > > Is it just me, or have Squarepusher releases just > been going down the drain > > lately? Overall: > > > > 'Music Is Rotted...' was great, lots of > interesting noises, depth and > > development (and kept it up over 15 tracks); > > 'Budakhan Mindphone' was okay, beautiful first > track but didn't really hang > > together; > > 'Maximum Priest' was average, with not enough > development and too many > > 'well, I've got this, why not stick it in' > moments; > > and 'Selection Sixteen', apart from Square Rave, > Schizm Track #1 and Time > > Borb, was awful - effortless jazz bits, aimless > drumrolls, painful noises. > > About 13 tracks too long in my opinion. > > > > Is he going down the Quantity Not Quality route, > or is just running out of > > inspiration? > > > > James Roberts (aka ISDS) > > ------ > > http://listen.to/isds > > www.mp3.com/isds > > > > > > >

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quoted 8 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

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quoted 6 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:

> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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--- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote:

quoted 5 lines I didn't want to have to get involved in this thread

> I didn't want to have to get involved in this thread > but I really must > express that I think those of you condemning > Squarepusher's later works > are missing the point entirely.

With regards to me, I wasn't slagging him. I actually quite glad that he has moved into other territories than drill n bass. I liked the downtempo jazz stuff alot!

quoted 4 lines Of course this is a public forum and

> Of course this is a public forum and > you can express what you want, but realize that Tom > Jenkinsen is not > making music for YOU, he's making it for HIM.

Who cares who he is making it for. Any individual has the right to share their opinions on what they get out of the music..whether it is bad or good.

quoted 2 lines He isn't making much

> He isn't making much > money AT ALL and neither is any IDM artist.

That's too bad, that these artists don't get better compensated.

quoted 5 lines I also think that the stuff will grow on those who

> I also think that the stuff will grow on those who > allow it to. I think it's great that he's expanding > his jazz > influences, and SO WHAT if it sounds like Miles > Davis???

I think that stuff is cooler than alot of other "IDM".

quoted 9 lines I think TJ

> I think TJ > would take that as quite a compliment and you should > realize that > perhaps he is still evolving and is imitating his > influences to absorb > them and will re-emit them in a more original form > in the future. The > man is a genius and should be given room to > experiment.

Agreed

quoted 3 lines That's all that

> That's all that > is going on so everyone quit being all constipated > about it.

I would stop worrying what other people think. If they like it or dislike, what does it matter? The only thing that is constipating are people's hero worshiping to the point that you can't say anything negative regarding any piece of work... without someone crying that a post of that sort should be censored, or supressed. Gee I remember when people could accept differences of opinion and discuss them intelligently without taking offense. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines I would stop worrying what other people think. If they

> I would stop worrying what other people think. If they > like it or dislike, what does it matter?

I guess I feel sorry for them that they must be so negative and critical about the artistic output of such a genius. It's just kind of shortsighted.

quoted 4 lines The only thing that is constipating are people's hero

> The only thing that is constipating are people's hero > worshiping to the point that you can't say anything > negative regarding any piece of work... without someone crying that a > post of that sort should be censored, or supressed.

I am not saying that people shouldn't express it, just questioning the artists sincerity and quality, integrity etc.... Why can't they just say that _they_ didn't like it? and allow for the possibility that others might have and that maybe they just don't get it and might someday.

quoted 3 lines Gee I remember when people could accept differences of

> Gee I remember when people could accept differences of > opinion and discuss them intelligently without taking > offense.

I was not offended, just fearful that such negativity existed out there among fans of truly revolutionary music. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines Gee I remember when people could accept differences of

> > Gee I remember when people could accept differences of > > opinion and discuss them intelligently without taking > > offense. > I was not offended, just fearful that such negativity existed out there > among fans of truly revolutionary music.

revolutionary music is always the hardest thing to be positive about, it seems, doesn't it? but as for squarepusher or idm in general being truly revolutionary music, let's just say i'll chuckle on that one & leave it at that. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I guess I see it more as a step in perhaps what is a thousand mile journey. rather than a complete revolution unto itself. Also, I have to complain about the term "IDM" it really is a lame term. I mean, who the hell can "dance" to squarepusher? maybe IM or just GM for "Good Music" would be better. Hopefully it will evolve beyond its association with dance clubs and techno and bleep bloop computer noises which are all just a part of the novelty of the genre and will truly evolve into the future music which will be amazing and which can touch the souls of all. david turgeon wrote:

quoted 13 lines Gee I remember when people could accept differences of

> > > Gee I remember when people could accept differences of > > > opinion and discuss them intelligently without taking > > > offense. > > I was not offended, just fearful that such negativity existed out there > > among fans of truly revolutionary music. > > revolutionary music is always the hardest thing to be positive about, it > seems, doesn't it? > > but as for squarepusher or idm in general being truly revolutionary > music, let's just say i'll chuckle on that one & leave it at that. > > ~ david

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--- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote:

quoted 8 lines I would stop worrying what other people think. If

> > I would stop worrying what other people think. If > they > > like it or dislike, what does it matter? > > I guess I feel sorry for them that they must be so > negative and critical > about the artistic output of such a genius. It's > just kind of shortsighted.

Man your hilarious :) You feel sorry that someone doesn't share your opinion about an artist? Is Squarepusher the ONLY "genius" out there? There are alot of geniuses out there. And "geniuses" don't always releases "genius material", sometimes they disappoint or make toss.

quoted 12 lines The only thing that is constipating are people's

> > The only thing that is constipating are people's > hero > > worshiping to the point that you can't say > anything > > negative regarding any piece of work... without > someone crying that a > > post of that sort should be censored, or > supressed. > > I am not saying that people shouldn't express it, > just questioning the > artists sincerity and quality, integrity etc....

Sincerity and integrity is not the reason I buy records. I don't buy records because they are good to their mothers and feed homeless people. It's the music, and that all! I don't care if the person has written the most brilliant tunes in the world. If they are releasing stuff that I don't like, then I won't buy that particular release.

quoted 2 lines Why can't they just

> Why can't they just > say that _they_ didn't like it?

First off I would like to hear why they do or don't like the release. Give a little background to support their statement, you know.

quoted 3 lines and allow for the possibility that

> and allow for the possibility that > others might have and that maybe they just don't get > it and might someday.

First off, people should listen and judge for themselves and then comment. I don't think anyone claims to be all knowing. Do you complain to magazines when they don't give a favorable review. It's all subjective, some people will like it some won't.

quoted 9 lines Gee I remember when people could accept

> > Gee I remember when people could accept > differences of > > opinion and discuss them intelligently without > taking > > offense. > > I was not offended, just fearful that such > negativity existed out there > among fans of truly revolutionary music.

IDM isn't that revolutionary anymore. Maybe to people that are new to it. I haven't heard a single idm release this year that has had a major impact. Sure there has been some really good material here and there, but nothing revolutionary. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

point taken, I am giving up now. I must have been wrong. I didn't like alot of squarepusher's latest output either. I just felt like there was really no reason to just criticize the music unless asked. I mean, the person who came out and was like "squarepusher's stuff sucks now!, he should try harder" seemed to be expecting the artist to be working to satisfy his fans. If you don't like it, don't buy it, but why give your opinion when not asked? maybe it's just me and how I am. Sorry for pushing my point of view on others. Will Samuels wrote:

quoted 75 lines --- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote:

> --- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote: > > > I would stop worrying what other people think. If > > they > > > like it or dislike, what does it matter? > > > > I guess I feel sorry for them that they must be so > > negative and critical > > about the artistic output of such a genius. It's > > just kind of shortsighted. > > Man your hilarious :) > You feel sorry that someone doesn't share your opinion > about an artist? Is Squarepusher the ONLY "genius" out > there? There are alot of geniuses out there. And > "geniuses" don't always releases "genius material", > sometimes they disappoint or make toss. > > > > The only thing that is constipating are people's > > hero > > > worshiping to the point that you can't say > > anything > > > negative regarding any piece of work... without > > someone crying that a > > > post of that sort should be censored, or > > supressed. > > > > I am not saying that people shouldn't express it, > > just questioning the > > artists sincerity and quality, integrity etc.... > > Sincerity and integrity is not the reason I buy > records. I don't buy records because they are good to > their mothers and feed homeless people. It's the > music, and that all! I don't care if the person has > written the most brilliant tunes in the world. If they > are releasing stuff that I don't like, then I won't > buy that particular release. > > > Why can't they just > > say that _they_ didn't like it? > > First off I would like to hear why they do or don't > like the release. Give a little background to support > their statement, you know. > > > and allow for the possibility that > > others might have and that maybe they just don't get > > it and might someday. > > First off, people should listen and judge for > themselves and then comment. I don't think anyone > claims to be all knowing. Do you complain to magazines > when they don't give a favorable review. It's all > subjective, some people will like it some won't. > > > > Gee I remember when people could accept > > differences of > > > opinion and discuss them intelligently without > > taking > > > offense. > > > > I was not offended, just fearful that such > > negativity existed out there > > among fans of truly revolutionary music. > > IDM isn't that revolutionary anymore. Maybe to people > that are new to it. I haven't heard a single idm > release this year that has had a major impact. Sure > there has been some really good material here and > there, but nothing revolutionary. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

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quoted 4 lines Hopefully it will evolve beyond its association with dance clubs and

>Hopefully it will evolve beyond its association with dance clubs and >techno and bleep bloop computer noises which are all just a part of the >novelty of the genre and will truly evolve into the future music which will >be amazing and which can touch the souls of all.

Unless, like me, you don't believe in souls. Then you'll be happy to stick with bleep boop computer noises. Philip Sherburne aka DJ Datenübertragung Ask Jeeves 5858 Horton Street Emeryville, CA 94608 510-985-7885 "If a question can be put at all, then it can also be answered." -Ludwig Wittgenstein --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote:

quoted 6 lines point taken, I am giving up now. I must have been

> point taken, I am giving up now. I must have been > wrong. I didn't like > alot of squarepusher's latest output either. I just > felt like there was > really no reason to just criticize the music unless > asked.

It's a reasonable thing to discuss on this list. I actually look forward to hearing future Tom Jenkinson releases. I know some of them I will like and some I won't. And discussion in any form is ok by me, as long as it's done in a respectful way.

quoted 5 lines I mean, the

> I mean, the > person who came out and was like "squarepusher's > stuff sucks now!, he > should try harder" seemed to be expecting the artist > to be working to satisfy his fans.

I didn't get that portion of the thread. I remember someone saying that they haven't liked his last few releases. I never read that he should try harder. I agree he should make the music for himself first and not try to stay in some mold that the fans might want. Some people will like it and some won't.

quoted 2 lines If you don't like it, don't buy

> If you don't like it, don't buy > it, but why give your opinion when not asked?

Why not? Do you only post when someone ask something? I think people should post about whatever content they want to. Share your ideas...regardless.

quoted 3 lines maybe it's just me and how

> maybe it's just me and how > I am. Sorry for > pushing my point of view on others.

Share your views, but don't get upset when other do as well. We all come from different backgrounds, tastes, etc. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 8 lines ABsolutely, I have to agree. Music is Rotted was just terrible.

> ABsolutely, I have to agree. Music is Rotted was just terrible. > Anyone who thinks Music is Rotted was any good has been caught in > the trap of buying what ever Tom puts out and thinks it is awesome. > The criticism Music is Rotted received is well deserved, and whether > that affected Tom, and made him try to repair the damage with > Selection > Sixteen, only the Mr Jenkinson can tell us. > Mikey

--------

quoted 6 lines 'Music is Rotted..' is the worst

> 'Music is Rotted..' is the worst > pile > of steaming shit I've heard in recent years, and Tommy has managed to > crawl his way back to tolerable mediocrity with Selection 16. > > 'Feed Me Weird Things' .... sigh... those were the days.

-------- To me, these sound like the oppinions of people who neither have any appreciation for clasic electronic music from the 40's on, nor an appreciation for real Jazz or fusion either. How can you argue that Budakhan Mindphone was no good??? (by saying that Selection Sixteen was attempt to "repair the damage")? Even if you can't handle the more free aproach to the music on Music is Rotted..., you still must be able to apreciate the beats and stuff on Budakhan Mindphone? Why do people wish for the monotony and close to standard-fare Dn'B of Feed me Weird Things and Selection Sixteen??? These albums are ok, and still better programmed and more interesting than most Dn'B out there, but neither stretches the boundries of music in General like Budakhan or Music is Rotted... -Andy! ===== 1/2.of... -->Abra.Cadaver:Screams.Synths.Skins ( http://www.angelfire.com/yt/cadaver/ )<---(AbCadav.home) Also.I.am... -->Captain.Insect:Fututre.Insect.Rock -->Eulb:AntiTech ( http://www.angelfire.com/yt/depom/ )<---(depom.front) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Venetian Snares http://www.angelfire.com/mn/vsnares/ -- colin http://www.mediacore.org/~clone http://mp3.com/sonicatharsis np: http://www.tbp.mb.ca/audio/fishead-adrenal_atrocity-b.ram --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Venetian Snares = hella good. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@cyrus.net http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly [CELL|(888)522.3830] | [CELL|(701)729.1631] | [HOME|(651)748.8676] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org