IDM Mailing Archive

--- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote:

quoted 5 lines I didn't want to have to get involved in this thread

> I didn't want to have to get involved in this thread > but I really must > express that I think those of you condemning > Squarepusher's later works > are missing the point entirely.

With regards to me, I wasn't slagging him. I actually quite glad that he has moved into other territories than drill n bass. I liked the downtempo jazz stuff alot!

quoted 4 lines Of course this is a public forum and

> Of course this is a public forum and > you can express what you want, but realize that Tom > Jenkinsen is not > making music for YOU, he's making it for HIM.

Who cares who he is making it for. Any individual has the right to share their opinions on what they get out of the music..whether it is bad or good.

quoted 2 lines He isn't making much

> He isn't making much > money AT ALL and neither is any IDM artist.

That's too bad, that these artists don't get better compensated.

quoted 5 lines I also think that the stuff will grow on those who

> I also think that the stuff will grow on those who > allow it to. I think it's great that he's expanding > his jazz > influences, and SO WHAT if it sounds like Miles > Davis???

I think that stuff is cooler than alot of other "IDM".

quoted 9 lines I think TJ

> I think TJ > would take that as quite a compliment and you should > realize that > perhaps he is still evolving and is imitating his > influences to absorb > them and will re-emit them in a more original form > in the future. The > man is a genius and should be given room to > experiment.

Agreed

quoted 3 lines That's all that

> That's all that > is going on so everyone quit being all constipated > about it.

I would stop worrying what other people think. If they like it or dislike, what does it matter? The only thing that is constipating are people's hero worshiping to the point that you can't say anything negative regarding any piece of work... without someone crying that a post of that sort should be censored, or supressed. Gee I remember when people could accept differences of opinion and discuss them intelligently without taking offense. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines I would stop worrying what other people think. If they

> I would stop worrying what other people think. If they > like it or dislike, what does it matter?

I guess I feel sorry for them that they must be so negative and critical about the artistic output of such a genius. It's just kind of shortsighted.

quoted 4 lines The only thing that is constipating are people's hero

> The only thing that is constipating are people's hero > worshiping to the point that you can't say anything > negative regarding any piece of work... without someone crying that a > post of that sort should be censored, or supressed.

I am not saying that people shouldn't express it, just questioning the artists sincerity and quality, integrity etc.... Why can't they just say that _they_ didn't like it? and allow for the possibility that others might have and that maybe they just don't get it and might someday.

quoted 3 lines Gee I remember when people could accept differences of

> Gee I remember when people could accept differences of > opinion and discuss them intelligently without taking > offense.

I was not offended, just fearful that such negativity existed out there among fans of truly revolutionary music. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines Gee I remember when people could accept differences of

> > Gee I remember when people could accept differences of > > opinion and discuss them intelligently without taking > > offense. > I was not offended, just fearful that such negativity existed out there > among fans of truly revolutionary music.

revolutionary music is always the hardest thing to be positive about, it seems, doesn't it? but as for squarepusher or idm in general being truly revolutionary music, let's just say i'll chuckle on that one & leave it at that. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I guess I see it more as a step in perhaps what is a thousand mile journey. rather than a complete revolution unto itself. Also, I have to complain about the term "IDM" it really is a lame term. I mean, who the hell can "dance" to squarepusher? maybe IM or just GM for "Good Music" would be better. Hopefully it will evolve beyond its association with dance clubs and techno and bleep bloop computer noises which are all just a part of the novelty of the genre and will truly evolve into the future music which will be amazing and which can touch the souls of all. david turgeon wrote:

quoted 13 lines Gee I remember when people could accept differences of

> > > Gee I remember when people could accept differences of > > > opinion and discuss them intelligently without taking > > > offense. > > I was not offended, just fearful that such negativity existed out there > > among fans of truly revolutionary music. > > revolutionary music is always the hardest thing to be positive about, it > seems, doesn't it? > > but as for squarepusher or idm in general being truly revolutionary > music, let's just say i'll chuckle on that one & leave it at that. > > ~ david

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quoted 8 lines I guess I see it more as a step in perhaps what is a thousand mile journey.

> I guess I see it more as a step in perhaps what is a thousand mile journey. > rather than a complete revolution unto itself. Also, I have to complain > about the term "IDM" it really is a lame term. I mean, who the hell can > "dance" to squarepusher? maybe IM or just GM for "Good Music" would be > better. Hopefully it will evolve beyond its association with dance clubs and > techno and bleep bloop computer noises which are all just a part of the > novelty of the genre and will truly evolve into the future music which will > be amazing and which can touch the souls of all.

not a chance in hell that's ever going to happen, but hey, it's nice to dream. as for the 'd' in idm... i have to say i rather like the idea of dance music if it goes beyond the overkill club reference. there are many, many ways to dance. some of which don't even involve you getting up from that chair. arythmic stuff can be a lot of fun, & bless it for not being freaking 4/4. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines I guess I see it more as a step in perhaps what is a thousand mile journey.

> > I guess I see it more as a step in perhaps what is a thousand mile journey. > > rather than a complete revolution unto itself. Also, I have to complain > > about the term "IDM" it really is a lame term.

I've always thought it was a mildly inaccurate term, but I don't think it's lame. I actually preferred one that never really took off. I think it was used on the liner of the first Artificial Intelligence compilation...maybe not...anyway, "Armchair Techno" . :) I think that's at the very least most descriptive of what we are talking about...It's techno, but it's not Rave (foo)...It is to be contemplated and maybe even studied, but who dances to (much of) it? The D does indicate historical origin, on the other hand. An artist like SqP's music isn't necessarily dance-able, but the elder works of AFX certainly are. Then we have almighty R. Hawtin, who's creations will move even a dead person out of his or her armchair, and who also does experimental, non-dance-ish work. So, "IDM" was at one time MORE descriptive a term than it is now - Contemporary IDM is an evolved form of what it was, say, in 1990 or 1977 even.

quoted 2 lines I mean, who the hell can

> > I mean, who the hell can > > "dance" to squarepusher?

To be a thorn, I could introduce you to a couple of people who dance to much stranger sounds :)

quoted 4 lines Hopefully it will evolve beyond its association with dance clubs and

> > Hopefully it will evolve beyond its association with dance clubs and > > techno and bleep bloop computer noises which are all just a part of the > > novelty of the genre and will truly evolve into the future music which will > > be amazing and which can touch the souls of all.

Well, this is not very realistic, considering that there would BE no genre without computers. What do you expect? Suddenly it's all played on violins and citars? Some of the sounds you call bleep-bloop only exist within the machines. These are the core of the sound, the REASON many of us listen in the first place. I have never been to a dance club in my entire life. I don't go to raves or do drugs or any of the things frequently associated with this form of music. I am purely a "listener". JAH --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

IDM = ELM = Electronic Listening Music Teccie. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In a message dated 21/12/99 4:10:14 eerie@mnemonic.net writes:

quoted 1 line I guess I see it more as a step in perhaps what is a thousand mile

> > I guess I see it more as a step in perhaps what is a thousand mile

journey.

quoted 4 lines rather than a complete revolution unto itself. Also, I have to complain

> > rather than a complete revolution unto itself. Also, I have to complain > > about the term "IDM" it really is a lame term. I mean, who the hell can > > "dance" to squarepusher? maybe IM or just GM for "Good Music" would be > > better. Hopefully it will evolve beyond its association with dance

clubs

quoted 17 lines and

> and > > techno and bleep bloop computer noises which are all just a part of the > > novelty of the genre and will truly evolve into the future music which > will > > be amazing and which can touch the souls of all. > > not a chance in hell that's ever going to happen, but hey, it's nice to > dream. > > as for the 'd' in idm... i have to say i rather like the idea of dance > music if it goes beyond the overkill club reference. there are many, > many ways to dance. some of which don't even involve you getting up > from that chair. arythmic stuff can be a lot of fun, & bless it for not > being freaking 4/4. > > ~ david >

Actually, the proper usage of the word 'Dance' applies to rhthmic movement of 'body' involving steps - so in fact idm may be misconstrued as armchair mind (dance) music when in fact it should apply to the aforementioned physical form of movement. Of course I appreciate that this type of music has some applications as 'mind dance' but only in the paradigm of the mind - not the body. By this I mean that we cannot actually measure the incidence of 'mind dance', but we are somehow aware of it (like dreams); therefore we are dealing with a grey area in idm. Perhaps we should accept that this form of music that we are familiar with and appreciate - can be construed as dance music in essence, but we should not limit it to the mental sphere. The only thing that is concrete - is that the music is an intelligent art form. A Z --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In a message dated 21/12/99 5:10:25 eerie@mnemonic.net writes:

quoted 3 lines certain minimal forms of dancing, such as butoh, allow some extremely

> certain minimal forms of dancing, such as butoh, allow some extremely > subtle movements which do not require any sort of steps or immediately > perception of movement.

Fair enough, however I wonder how many people who dig idm actually know about butoh. Guess I know now! Perhaps barely perceptible physical movements can be construed to be relevant to idm - but this could then apply to any form of dance music then - Detroit Techno 4/4, Reggae, Afro rhythms etc etc - can we therefore call all these musical forms idm? I certainly tap my toes to R&B sometimes. The only thing that gets me really moving in idm is my mind. A Z --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines I certainly tap

> I certainly tap > my toes to R&B > sometimes.

This has to be the IDM quote of the year! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines cesium wrote:

>cesium wrote: >The only thing that gets me really moving in idm is my mind.

geez, we really are a bunch of bedroom listeners on this list aren't we? and this discussion comes on the same day i post a question asking if anyone beatmatches idm tracks and i get a paltry 4 responses (3 of them said "no"). doesn't anyone here want to go out on a saturday night and shake their ass to the music we all profess we love? i know, i know, the clubs in the places that we live in won't let it happen, but we all have great record collections - get out there! anyways, that's what i'm trying to do - to play that techno party and drop some mad idm shit! i mean, i'm not talking about oval - there's lots of good stuff that just might go over quite well (i once had a room of people dancing to afx's windowlicker and phoenicia). g. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org