IDM Mailing Archive

----- Original Message ----- From: Vague Terrain <drew_dan@uclink4.berkeley.edu> To: Ross Balmer <ross@tuimedia.co.uk> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:33 AM Subject: Green Velvet / Jan St. Werner is the hottest guy in IDM

quoted 2 lines Finally got Sutekh's "Periods.Make.Sense" and it

> Finally got Sutekh's "Periods.Make.Sense" and it > on the other hand is 100%, full on, brilliant.

Agreed, the Sutekh album is really amazing. :)

quoted 4 lines Nit-Picking:

> Nit-Picking: > > If the facts in question are "this is a sexist society" and "people feel > very comfortable talking about women's looks and not as comfortable

talking

quoted 2 lines about men's looks", it seems pretty clear that these facts reinforce each

> about men's looks", it seems pretty clear that these facts reinforce each > other.

Perhaps, but the latter point is a generalization which I'm sure doesn't apply to everyone. I have no problem with talking about mens looks and no objection if somebody else wants to. Also, it seems to me that it is perfectly possible to discuss the looks of a person of either sex without holding a sexist attitude.

quoted 2 lines I haven't made a simplistic causal claim as you seem to allege- the

> I haven't made a simplistic causal claim as you seem to allege- the > verb in the original sentence was "reinforce", not "cause".

I don't see either word in the original post, however, I shall re-phrase my argument accordingly: It seems to me that the attitude which we have a problem with is the belief that someone's physical attractiveness is more important than their other qualities, not the belief that someone is physically attractive, period. The latter does not imply the former and anyone who thinks it does is guilty of flawed reasoning. It is the flawed reasoning which I believe should be eliminated, not all mention of whether people are attractive. If someone is nice to look at, whatever sex they are, then to me that is a positive thing. I think we should be allowed to talk about it.

quoted 3 lines Furthermore, if

> Furthermore, if > you don't feel that your own statements reinforce sexism, why would feel > that you would have to walk on any eggshells at all?

Because of the reaction I might get, especially if someone decided to make a big issue out of an innocent remark and started making accusations regarding the alleged underlying attitudes behind the remark.

quoted 1 line In either case, how was I advocating an "avoidance of the issue"?

> In either case, how was I advocating an "avoidance of the issue"?

It seemed that you were advocating never mentioning whether a woman is attractive or not which seems like a good way of avoiding the issue. Especially if we are talking about reinforcement - that implies a pre-existing attitude. I'm curious, if mentioning that a woman is attractive reinforces a sexist attiutude, do you think that the act of finding her attractive, privately, inside your head, does the same thing?

quoted 3 lines Talking about this openly as

> Talking about this openly as > we are all doing right now on this list is exactly the head on > confrontation which you seem to feel is necessary.

Yes, well it is certainly an issue to be debated and I'm sure there are many cases where women have been judged unfairly because of their looks and I find that to be highly deplorable. I don't recall seeing any evidence of anyone on the list making such a judgement, however. Ross. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org