IDM Mailing Archive

letting people listen to the music of their choice is good manners, listening to music for production values and or motor skills is simply poor taste, steve In a message dated Mon, 15 Nov 1999 1:13:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, cognition@ns.sympatico.ca (Andrew Duke) writes: > kent: i'm with you on this thread. personally, i make a point > of listening to practically everything i have access > to, regardless of style or whether i like it or not. > for example, i don't like country music, but at > work, (i'm a supervisor) if i give one of the employees > a break and she/he is listening to a country station, > for example, i'll leave it playing (even though i could > change the station). ditto for employees who are > listening to a rock station, an oldies station, a pop > station, etc. i've got a radio on in the kitchen 24/7 > (tuned to the college station) and i'll hear all kinds > of music from classical to indie rock to hip hop > to r n b to Indian music to Greek music to etc etc. > I won't change the channel if something comes on > i'm not into, i'll just leave it for the sake of variety. > i think it's important to hear music you're not into > occasionally cos it makes you appreciate what you *are* into. > what am i listening to right now? well, it happens > to be a live PA from unit for the syndicated show, > but if i was in the kitchen it could very well be > someone playing a poppy bjork song on the college > station (something that i wouldn't have listened > to otherwise) or if my girlfriend was home, she could > easily be playing a madonna cd or something of that > nature. i think we need to keep our ears > open, and it's good to see you do. i'll make a point > of listening to the weekly pop music top 30 on the > radio if i work a saturday shift (when it's airing) > just to keep up on the latest pop music. and i'll listen > to syndicated shows (again, at work, i don't listen > to em at home) when they air like MC Mario's > Top 10 dance show (Mixdown) and Chris Sheppard's > Pirate Radio. do i like the music they play? nope, > it's not what i'm into at all, but it's interesting to see > what is being played on canadian syndicated shows. > (checkin' out the competition ;)) and do i listen > to pop music radio at home? nope, at home i listen > to vinyl and DATs, at work i'll listen to CDs or > the radio. i'm so busy listening to incoming music > here that i don't even listen to the radio at home. so i'm > with ya, nothing wrong with checking out the backstreet > boys et al. heck, i'm sure wells appreciates stuff other > than IDM, this thread just sorta took a strange tone > with the Backstreet Boys on the IDM list, is likely all. > i find it fascinating that there's so much six degrees of > separation in pop music. i won't post that thread a' > mine again, though. take care. andrew duke :) > > wells wrote: > > > At 11:45 AM 11/15/99 -0600, Kent williams wrote: > > > > > >Well, I'm sorry for you too, wells. Some day you'll wake up > > >and realize that there's more to life than being an ironic hipster. > > > > > > > There's really nothing ironic or hip about feeling the deepest of pity for > > anyone who can appreciate the Backstreet Boys for any reason whatsoever. > > > > That sort of pity ought to be instinctive. > > > > - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu > > " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety 90 minutes. > > This much is fact. Everything else is just theory." > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > -- > Cognition/Andrew Duke's In The Mix > mailto:cognition@techno.ca > http://techno.ca/cognition > 1096 Queen St #123 Halifax NS Canada B3H 2R9 > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 Steve81778@aol.com wrote:

quoted 5 lines letting people listen to the music of their choice is good manners,

> > letting people listen to the music of their choice is good manners, > listening to music for production values and or motor skills is simply > poor taste, >

You're entitled to your opinion BUT: No one is making much money doing 'this-listy' music. I bet that among all the "international idm stars" there are maybe a couple that make more money than I do writing my little boring computer programs. Part of the reason for the small audience is that you have to learn to like this stuff -- a casual listener will find the music repetitive, harsh and obtuse. Another part MAY be -- and this is my thesis -- that because the music is largely home made, it fails to have the production values and sonic quality that the vast majority of people have come to expect from their audio entertainment. So when I listen to any music, on the radio or CD player or Vinyl, I'm doing two things -- considering the music for it's intrinsic musical qualities divorced from the medium, AND analysing how it's recorded, edited, and manipulated to make it inviting ear candy. And if you want production values for their own sake, you have to look at the high-volume, commercial stuff. It doesn't mean you have to love the music -- you can hate it, and still analyze what they do to suck in the punters. My point is this -- what happens if you are somehow able to combine the idiosyncratic artistry that you find in IDM with the techniques of big-bucks audio production? You might come up with something of quality that's also accessible to a wider audience. There are people who have done this -- Orbital comes to mind. But a curious thing happens when musicians get a clue about how to appeal to more than a tiny community of likeminded nutters. Said nutters desert their idols for being too successful, and find another scruffy kid with a sampler to lionize. Too bad if the musicians in question have something to say, and want as many people as possible to hear it. They transgress against their core constituency by refusing to sneer along with them at the wider audience they attract. I think that's stupid. It rewards musicians for being amateurish, inept, and obtuse. It punishes people for learning the craft of recording. It punishes people for daring to try and actually make a living with their music. And it perpetuates an elitist subculture that's little more than an elaborate circle jerk. Fuck that. I'm not going to apologize for listening to music just because it happens to be popular. It's popular for whole host of reasons, and looking consciously at those reasons is for me just as interesting as listening the latest click-thud-and-screech classics. And Wells can kiss my ass. Some people never learn good manners. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Here's a reply to the message "(idm) The Arbiters of Good Taste" written on Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:16:20 -0600 (CST):

quoted 5 lines I think that's stupid. It rewards musicians for being

>I think that's stupid. It rewards musicians for being >amateurish, inept, and obtuse. It punishes people for learning >the craft of recording. It punishes people for daring to try >and actually make a living with their music. And it perpetuates an >elitist subculture that's little more than an elaborate circle jerk.

It's interesting you should mention Orbital, because there does seem to be a pretty wide gulf between their fans and their detractors on this list. Those that hate Orbital with a passion tend to be relatively younger listeners of so-called IDM, whose first contact with the group was probably on MTV (the bizarre rationale being that if an artist appears on MTV, they've somehow "sold out" and thus aren't worthy of further attention). I find this all quite amusing. Over here in the UK, during the late-80s, I found myself being attracted to what was generically known as "dance" music. Around 1987-88, as a 15-16 year-old kid, if you were into "dance" music, you were considered "a bit odd". If you were into pure pop, people left you alone. If you wanted to be "cool", you had to listen to "heavy metal" music such as Def Leppard and Bon Jovi. It seems laughable now, but that was the way it was. At the same time, UK clubs and discos didn't play speed garage, drum & bass or club music, because it didn't exist. These clubs and discos played either classic 70s disco or these new-fangled 12-inch remixes of pop music. House/acid/techno began to emerge in 1986, but no-one took it seriously -- and if you did, you were seen as a weirdo. Now look at how things have changed. The house scene has since evolved into today's current club scene, which everyone and their dog is involved in. Now you're seen as a weirdo if you're *not* into that sort of stuff. Where was I going with this? Ah yes, so back in the late 80s, I started hearing this incredible new music from the likes of Bomb the Bass, S'Express, 808 State, Orbital, Humanoid, Shades of Rhythm and LFO. I'd previously been listening to a bit of Jarre and founds the sort of sonic experimentation on early New Order, Pet Shop Boys, Art of Noise, Frankie Goes to Hollywood and Propaganda albums to be good fun. Now it all seemed to be going a step further and I liked what I was hearing. Pretty much all these artists are still around today. Some have split up, but the various members are still actively recording decent music. But it makes me laugh when the younger IDM listeners wonder what all the fuss about Orbital and 808 State is about. If it weren't for them, the current IDM scene would be *very* different, perhaps hardly recognisable, so jumping on them for not daring to be as "progressive" as the current bunch of click-hiss-whirr artists is nonsense.

quoted 5 lines Fuck that. I'm not going to apologize for listening to music just

>Fuck that. I'm not going to apologize for listening to music just >because it happens to be popular. It's popular for whole host of >reasons, and looking consciously at those reasons is for me >just as interesting as listening the latest click-thud-and-screech >classics.

I had the good fortune to see Orbital (with Plaid in support) earlier this year. I've also seen Autechre live. Now, as much as I find Autechre's albums, eps and remixes to be incredible, cutting edge stuff, their live performance is about as interesting as watching paint dry -- and the audience usually consists of a dozen bearded students, stroking their chins as they analyse the fractal structures between sips of diet coke. On the other hand, whilst Orbital perhaps aren't as "progressive" or "experimental", their live shows are awesome. Seeing thousands of people jumping around, high on the music as it pulsates throughout the venue in tidal sine waves, projected images and icons flying everywhere, is a sight to see (and hear). -- Mark Stevens http://www.headspin.clara.net/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org