Thad,
I was really impressed with the maturity of your reply after Scot went
out of his way to bash you, but then you went and tacked on that barb on
the end. When I first read Scot's message I was upset because I
initially agreed with his point, but was irked that he resorted to such a
personal attack. I imagine part of the reason he went ape on you was the
tone of your reply to Irene, which I also thought was a bit overboard,
though I had been thinking of writing a reply indicating that I agreed
with Irene that a product given away for free should not be sold to
someone, and that you could have expressed your displeasure a bit more
tactfully. That said, I do agree with your decision to sell the cd after
reading your last reply. I'd like to point out that this is not an attack
on you personally, and that I'm posting this back to the list
because I'd like to make a request to list members to please try to stop
going into berzerker mode anytime someone criticizes them in a manner
they think is inappropriate. I've been quite surprised by the amount of
flaming that has been going on for the past few months I've been on this
list, and it really drags things down to a level of maturity that is much
lower than I would expect from people who subscribe to such
a list. It's also a bummer having to wade through a number of
unconstructive posts. If your purpose is to persuade your attacker or
anyone else on the list to agree with you, negativity is a
terrible way to do it, as any social psychologist (or parent for that
matter, heh) would tell you. How many times can you remember replying
"yeah, I guess I hadn't thought of that" to someone who said "you're full
of shit! XYZ is blah blah blah, and you're just a stupid fucker for
believing otherwise. Oh yeah, and yo' momma is a fat ho and I stuck her
last night" This is obviously over the top, but you probably get the point.
To wrap this all up I'd like to say that Irene may or may not have been
corrrect in posting her criticism of you're decision to sell the cd, but
I feel a better reply would have stated your reasons for doing so and
succinctly stating your irritation that she posted to the list instead of
directly to you. Though I understand your reason for being upset by
Irene's public criticism without discussing it with you, I didn't see
anything blatantly rude about what Irene did, and I felt that the ensuing
argument was educational, minus the flames.
There is quite a lot to be learned on the list, including arguments from the
various debates that crop up so often, but I think everyone would be
happier if people made an effort to make their point without getting
personal. A number of people already do this, and I'd like to thank you
for that.
Sincerely,
Peter Zaback
quoted 126 lines ----- Original Message -----
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scot G <sgelinas@wildcatcanyon.com>
> To: Idm List <idm@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 10:43 AM
> Subject: RE: (idm) morally yours
>
>
> > hey you are way out of line on this one. besides the fact that you post
> > your trade list pretty much every week or so, show some fuckin respect to
> > Kumquat who gave his own CD away free to anyone who wanted one.
> > no class...
> >
>
> Ok first i will point out this:
>
> as far as I know, Kumquat is not offering free promos of this CD to folks
> any longer. Actually, I think it has been months now since he was doing
> so...
>
> Taking this in mind I will then ask this:
>
> how is it showing disrespect to attatch a monetary value to a cd an artist
> was nice enough (and perhaps promo savy enough?) to offer out originally for
> free? I would think *if anything* this is actually *showing* respect!
>
> Would not just turning around and offering to publically give it away be
> undermining Kumquat more so than selling it at a very reasonable price (or
> as i said before TRADING) his CD?!?
>
> To me this bitching is all just mere soap box moralism. I myself make
> music, and would be happy to see copies of my CDs (originally promos or not)
> being secondhand sold and traded reasonably. This sort of thing happens all
> the time, and from my understanding it actually helps the artist, helping
> him or her become better established/more widely heard...
>
> I for one certainly think the music on the Kumquat CD is worth *at least*
> $8! (or as i mentioned, a decent trade).
> Some very unique quirky techno tracks in a style all his own. Definately
> worth a listen, whether one might obtain it from me, from Kumquat, or from
> any where else you can reasonably procure it.
>
> I will ask AGAIN that if anyone else would like to further correspond about
> this "moral" topic, please simply email me privately, off the list. I (and
> you should) know that more list members than not would prefer such.
>
> Oh and finally, Scot, fyi I have not posted a trade/sale list for some time
> now (about three weeks or so).
> Anyhow, correct me if im wrong, but i thought once a week (at most) *was*
> the accepted standard on trade/sale list posting frequency. i guess
> anything to join the public bandwagon and bitch bitch bitch about, eh? Oh
> boy, i can already see the flames/controversy banter coming again. (show
> some "class" and send them privately please)
>
> cycling cyclically,
> -Thad
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: idm-owner@hyperreal.org [mailto:idm-owner@hyperreal.org]On Behalf
> > Of dahtbig
> > Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 10:12 AM
> > To: Irene McC; idm@hyperreal.org
> > Subject: Re: (idm) morally yours
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Irene McC <substar@iafrica.com>
> > To: <idm@hyperreal.org>
> > Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 5:55 AM
> > Subject: (idm) morally yours
> >
> >
> > > re: (idm) music for trade/sale:
> > >
> > > > Kumquat: s/t $8
> > >
> > > uh-oh. The Big K himself was sending these out free of charge to
> > > all who asked. It's a bit tacky "selling" it just a few months down
> > > the line.
> > >
> > > Or am I just too ethical?
> > >
> > > I
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> >
> > yawn....
> >
> > I would obviously say you are "too ethical" in this case, as im the one
> > selling/trading it.
> > Yes, please note i am also offering to accept TRADE for it (something i
> > wrote *plain as day* in the header of the listing!).
> >
> > I myself got the CD as part of a trade recently, and while i like several
> of
> > the tracks a great deal, i thought id pass it on to a new home. $8 was
> just
> > an average/typical used CD price i picked out of the hat, one i thought
> and
> > still think quite reasonable.
> > This seems pretty obvious, but just because a cd was originally released
> > free or as a promo is no reason for it not to then or later not have
> market
> > or trade value!
> >
> > This has been said many a time (TOO many a time) before- if you dont wish
> to
> > buy something (whatever your reasons), then trade for it, or go on your
> > merry way. Theres really no reason at all to whine publically in this
> > situation, accept to gratify yourself and annoy others.
> >
> > Oh and next time you start criticizing someone for being _unethical_, it
> > might be more _ethical_ to approach that person with your
> comments/questions
> > at least initially in private, giving an opportunity for positions to be
> > clairfied, before blacklisting to the general public and all.
> >
> > !
> >
> > -Thad
> >
> >
>