IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 13 lines Dig deeper and you'll discover dozens, if not

>> Dig deeper and you'll discover dozens, if not >> hundreds, >> of great bands. I've never heard Barclay James >> Harvest; >> I'm defending the cream of the prog crop, most of >> whom >> existed so far underground that most people have >> never >> heard it (sort of like IDM now). > >Interesting argument - but I'm sure some of us would have heard of some >of the names. Of those bands receiving critical re-assessment, the only >prog one seems to be Gentle Giant.

I direct you to Ultima Thule, a record shop/mail order company based in Leicester. Perhaps you know of it. Don't have the phone # handy, but they put out a catalog bursting with quality prog (and psych/experimental/jazz/ambient, too). from France, Italy, England, Holland, Japan, Spain, America etc. Ditto for New Sonic Architecture (www.sonarc.net). Perhaps my definition of prog is broader than yours; some of what I consider prog crosses into psych-rock and some psych-rock could be classed as prog. Semantics.

quoted 14 lines I meant _punk_, not post-punk, which is how the

>> I meant _punk_, not post-punk, which is how the >> bands above >> have traditionally been classified. > >If you had been there, you would know that all the bands mentioned came >out of the punk movement (see Jon Savage's book Englands Burning - not >sure if correct title). There was no middle ground - if you were into >prog, you hated punk and the bands that came out of it; if you were >into the punk movement then you despised prog. Of course there was shit >(Damned, UK Subs, Sham 69), but then there always is. > >Incidentally, someone tried to exclude Young Marble Giants from the >Punk/Post Punk/whatever list. They came through the Punk scene like >everyone else.

Granted, these groups emerged from the punk milieu, but when I think of punk, I think Sex Pistols, Clash, 1st-LP Wire, Buzzcocks, Sham 69, Damned, etc. I think narrow stylistic parameters (aggressive rock with socio-political lyrics). I never considered Television punk, even though they arose from the same scene as Ramones, Voidoids, etc. Listen to Marquee Moon--long dual-guitar jams! How punk! BTW, Jon Savage's book is called England's Dreaming.

quoted 9 lines ." And Associates had more in

>> ." And Associates had more in >> common with prog >> than punk. > >I must admit that of all your statements, this is the one that really >sticks in my craw. Mackenzie/Rankine despised prog rock as the rest of >us did. The music they produced came out of a love of Bowie, film >soundtracks (Barry, Morricone), Roxy Music. See Tom Doyle's excellent >biography of Billy Mackenzie - The Glamour Chase.

They may have despised prog, but Sulk and their early singles struck me as being way more complex than punk in musical conception, much closer to prog in every way than to punk (think Van Der Graaf Generator [a fave of the Fall's Mark E. Smith] and Sparks). Nothing will sway me on this point.

quoted 6 lines You've seemingly heard only the most commercially

>> You've seemingly heard only the most commercially >> successful >> prog bands. > >Look mate, I was there as well. I saw a lot of these dinosaurs before >my damascus conversion in 1977.

It's been a pleasure debating with you. Dave Segal Managing Editor/Alternative Press Reviews/BPM/Reissue Redux/Origins Of Cool Secret Ions on WCSB Thursdays 9-11PM EST www.wcsb.org