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(idm) comments??

9 messages · 8 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
1999-09-08 07:06Irene McC (idm) comments??
├─ 1999-09-08 16:11little miss trinitron RE: (idm) comments??
└─ 1999-09-08 16:43laerm Re: (idm) comments??
└─ 1999-09-08 17:05eric hill Re: (idm) comments??
1999-09-08 08:20Warp Yourself Re: (idm) comments??
1999-09-08 08:49Darren Keast Re: (idm) comments??
└─ 1999-09-08 15:52Irene McC Re: (idm) comments??
1999-09-08 13:33Adam J Weitzman Re: (idm) comments??
1999-09-08 17:24Simon Paul Re: (idm) comments??
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1999-09-08 07:06Irene McCThis was written by a friend who's a free-lance correspondent for a (South African) magazi
From:
Irene McC
To:
Date:
Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:06:23 +0200
Subject:
(idm) comments??
permalink · <E11Obnm-000CGo-00@smtp03.iafrica.com>
This was written by a friend who's a free-lance correspondent for a (South African) magazine called SL : this was posted on their on-line site and had my jaw hanging open :-) I'd be curious to hear other people's opinions on the topic. http://sly.co.za/flashbaby_060999.asp Monday, 6 September The Body Electric Miles Keylock Flashbaby ponders just how people engage with music It's no revelation that I have a fundamental problem with the way people seem (not) to listen to music these days. It's been a major thorn in my proverbial hide that so-called dance music genres - music that's sole function is as a commodity which primarily allows people to dance - have such a following in this country. Perhaps it's not really a question of insisting that one listen to the music, now is it? Isn't it more an issue of how - or whether at all - people actually engage with the music. Be this cerebrally - a desire for an escape from the stimulus of the body, or viscerally - a search for transcendence through the body itself. Perhaps this is one reason why fans of dance music are only too willing to tolerate self-indulgent and exaggerated sets from DJs. Don't let anyone try and tell you otherwise, dancing to house music or drum and bass or trance is about the individual losing contact with the body, literally getting out of their heads. Ultimately dance music is not about the DJ - who, if anything serves merely as a conman, a visage, a cover version of the author. And don't listen to your friends whining on about how "electronic music is so cool because it's about the death of the author and the search for a new signifier confronted with the pre-millennium realities of this post-modern era." Bollocks! God is not a DJ! And a DJ will never be God. Despite their posturing endeavours there is no way that listening to a DJ spin a few discs or a couple of records can have as meaningfully a corporeal effect as watching a Nude Girls, a Groinchurn, a Nine, or a Fetish live onstage. These people are gods! The appeal of rock music is that it speaks precisely to the body. It's about embracing the fleshly textures of the music in all it's potential carnality: it's about sex, booze, drugs and rock'n roll. All you have to do is listen and hear. Whether you dance or not isn't an end in itself. By contrast, dance music is simply about denial of the body. It's about a new age, smart drinking, asexual looking, pill-popping paranoia of the flesh. The next time you go to a drum and bass club, just have a look at where the kids are. Deep inside their own heads and way up their own arses. I'm sorry, that's certainly not listening to the music. 'Cos if anything, dancing with and inside yourself seems kinda sad to me. Who are you communicating with? The DJ? I don't think so. They're definitely playing the music for themselves. Perhaps the beats then? Oh, please. I think not. All you're doing is sitting in a corner, sucking your thumb. And if that's engaging with the music, then I'm happy to be an old bastard who still lives with his mother.
1999-09-08 16:11little miss trinitron> I'd be curious to hear other people's opinions on the topic. if i could figure out exact
From:
little miss trinitron
To:
idm
Date:
Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:11:07 +0100
Subject:
RE: (idm) comments??
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(idm) comments??
permalink · <LOBBLFOMCBMLMKLHJCEDGEKKCFAA.artist@sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk>
quoted 1 line I'd be curious to hear other people's opinions on the topic.> I'd be curious to hear other people's opinions on the topic.
if i could figure out exactly what he was trying to say, i would comment. but i couldn't make much sense of it. except this bit: "The appeal of rock music is that it speaks precisely to the body. It's about embracing the fleshly textures of the music in all it's potential carnality: it's about sex, booze, drugs and rock'n roll." i thought that was quite nice. so he likes to fuck chickens, high on smack, dressed in a white robe, to a satanic industrial metal soundtrack. nothing wrong with that, mind - but there's no need for the chip-on-shoulder attack. it's just different. different values and a different purpose. <waves>
1999-09-08 16:43laermOn Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Irene McC forwarded: this guy talks like a jungle fan who idolised gro
From:
laerm
To:
Date:
Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:43:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) comments??
Reply to:
(idm) comments??
permalink · <Pine.SOL.4.04.9909081242370.16707-100000@unix01>
On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Irene McC forwarded: this guy talks like a jungle fan who idolised grooverider only to have grooverider tell him off, and now he's got a chip on his shoulder. but only one thing really made me think...
quoted 2 lines Perhaps this is one reason why fans of dance music are only too> Perhaps this is one reason why fans of dance music are only too > willing to tolerate self-indulgent and exaggerated sets from DJs.
how could a dj set be "self-indulgent and exaggerated"? * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# i'm only happy when it's complicated icq:5562209
1999-09-08 17:05eric hill>> Perhaps this is one reason why fans of dance music are only too >> willing to tolerate
From:
eric hill
To:
Date:
Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) comments??
Reply to:
Re: (idm) comments??
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.10.9909081004310.26002-100000@shell3.ba.best.com>
quoted 4 lines Perhaps this is one reason why fans of dance music are only too>> Perhaps this is one reason why fans of dance music are only too >> willing to tolerate self-indulgent and exaggerated sets from DJs. > >how could a dj set be "self-indulgent and exaggerated"?
it means they didn't like the DJ _or_ their records. eric onnow: lithops, "uni umit" (moikai)
1999-09-08 08:20Warp YourselfI'm sure you'll have more comments as time goes on but I believe the author is misguided.
From:
Warp Yourself
To:
,
Date:
Wed, 08 Sep 1999 01:20:49 PDT
Subject:
Re: (idm) comments??
permalink · <19990908082051.36536.qmail@hotmail.com>
I'm sure you'll have more comments as time goes on but I believe the author is misguided. One has to go deeper than a particular genre to find meaning in people's reactions to music. The question of how one engages with music really points more to the individual's response rather than the music. For example, the South Orange County (rich, predominantly white) kid who went to Rage Against The Machine. Or the "Thug" who went to a Rap concert to intimidate rather than listen. Some of the tirade was a bit dodgy but let me put it this way: a few weeks ago I saw Shad T. Scott (of Isophlux) DJ at a small club/coctail lounge. Many people were just dancing their asses off but an equal amount were gathering the subliminal messages of his set like a nod to the Miami sound (his hometown). This conflicts with her postulation that listening to dance music is about "the individual losing contact with the body, literally getting out of their heads". A few months ago I saw Anthony "Shake" Shakir with a few other IDMers and spent most of the night between vigorous nodding of the head and trying to spot tracks that he spun - a very mental experience. Finally, to the Rock & Roll comment: "it's about sex, booze, drugs..." That shit is so played out, for me at least. But one could hardly connect that with a genre of music. I remember a book where the author tried to link the electronic experience with drug use - not quite true in my mind but a prevalent attitude nevertheless. Anyhow, bottom line: Individuals react to music, dancing and otherwise, differently. Moshpits are as mindless as Clubs playing Drum & Bass remixes of Shade. When my good friend hears the Rock group Rush I consider his mental interaction similar to my enthrallment with the new Metamatics release. Sorry to carry on, and maybe in vain if it was indeed tongue in cheek but I just decided to express my personal opinion. David
quoted 82 lines From: "Irene McC" <substar@iafrica.com>>From: "Irene McC" <substar@iafrica.com> >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: (idm) comments?? >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:06:23 +0200 > >This was written by a friend who's a free-lance correspondent for a (South >African) magazine called SL : this was posted on their on-line site and had >my >jaw hanging open :-) I'd be curious to hear other people's opinions on the >topic. >http://sly.co.za/flashbaby_060999.asp > >Monday, 6 September >The Body Electric >Miles Keylock >Flashbaby ponders just how people engage with music > >It's no revelation that I have a fundamental problem with the way people >seem >(not) to listen to music these days. It's been a major thorn in my >proverbial hide >that so-called dance music genres - music that's sole function is as a >commodity which primarily allows people to dance - have such a following in >this country. > >Perhaps it's not really a question of insisting that one listen to the >music, now >is it? Isn't it more an issue of how - or whether at all - people actually >engage >with the music. Be this cerebrally - a desire for an escape from the >stimulus of >the body, or viscerally - a search for transcendence through the body >itself. >Perhaps this is one reason why fans of dance music are only too willing to >tolerate self-indulgent and exaggerated sets from DJs. > >Don't let anyone try and tell you otherwise, dancing to house music or drum >and bass or trance is about the individual losing contact with the body, >literally >getting out of their heads. Ultimately dance music is not about the DJ - >who, if >anything serves merely as a conman, a visage, a cover version of the >author. >And don't listen to your friends whining on about how "electronic music is >so >cool because it's about the death of the author and the search for a new >signifier confronted with the pre-millennium realities of this post-modern >era." >Bollocks! God is not a DJ! And a DJ will never be God. > >Despite their posturing endeavours there is no way that listening to a DJ >spin a >few discs or a couple of records can have as meaningfully a corporeal >effect as >watching a Nude Girls, a Groinchurn, a Nine, or a Fetish live onstage. >These >people are gods! > >The appeal of rock music is that it speaks precisely to the body. It's >about >embracing the fleshly textures of the music in all it's potential >carnality: it's >about sex, booze, drugs and rock'n roll. All you have to do is listen and >hear. >Whether you dance or not isn't an end in itself. By contrast, dance music >is >simply about denial of the body. It's about a new age, smart drinking, >asexual >looking, pill-popping paranoia of the flesh. > >The next time you go to a drum and bass club, just have a look at where the >kids are. Deep inside their own heads and way up their own arses. I'm >sorry, >that's certainly not listening to the music. 'Cos if anything, dancing with >and >inside yourself seems kinda sad to me. Who are you communicating with? The >DJ? I don't think so. They're definitely playing the music for themselves. >Perhaps the beats then? Oh, please. I think not. All you're doing is >sitting in a >corner, sucking your thumb. And if that's engaging with the music, then I'm >happy to be an old bastard who still lives with his mother. >
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1999-09-08 08:49Darren KeastWell, I get the strong impression the writer is being tongue-in-cheek ("a corporeal effect
From:
Darren Keast
To:
Irene McC
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 08 Sep 1999 00:49:42 -0800
Subject:
Re: (idm) comments??
permalink · <37D62321.BD31C749@skinny.com>
Well, I get the strong impression the writer is being tongue-in-cheek ("a corporeal effect as watching a Nude Girls, a Groinchurn, a Nine, or a Fetish live onstage. These people are gods!"--that MUST be a joke). But if their overall point is serious, which it seems to be, I would point them to the argument posed by David Toop in "Ocean of Sound" that electronic music, in the tradition of gamelan and other non-western musics, involves a different kind of listening--an extended, indirect form. He makes the comparison to all night gamelan performances where people listen for a bit, fall asleep, have converstations, etc, rather than listen intently to every note. Dance music is meant to be listened to over an extended period of time, not in little hour long sets that rock bands put on. The argument that rock is superior since it demands close attention is one of those boring old leftovers from the editorial chambers of Spin and Rolling Stone...it's almost as bad as the "but they don't play real instruments" whine. darren Irene McC wrote:
quoted 52 lines This was written by a friend who's a free-lance correspondent for a (South> This was written by a friend who's a free-lance correspondent for a (South > African) magazine called SL : this was posted on their on-line site and had my > jaw hanging open :-) I'd be curious to hear other people's opinions on the topic. > http://sly.co.za/flashbaby_060999.asp > > Monday, 6 September > The Body Electric > Miles Keylock > Flashbaby ponders just how people engage with music > > It's no revelation that I have a fundamental problem with the way people seem > (not) to listen to music these days. It's been a major thorn in my proverbial hide > that so-called dance music genres - music that's sole function is as a > commodity which primarily allows people to dance - have such a following in > this country. > > Perhaps it's not really a question of insisting that one listen to the music, now > is it? Isn't it more an issue of how - or whether at all - people actually engage > with the music. Be this cerebrally - a desire for an escape from the stimulus of > the body, or viscerally - a search for transcendence through the body itself. > Perhaps this is one reason why fans of dance music are only too willing to > tolerate self-indulgent and exaggerated sets from DJs. > > Don't let anyone try and tell you otherwise, dancing to house music or drum > and bass or trance is about the individual losing contact with the body, literally > getting out of their heads. Ultimately dance music is not about the DJ - who, if > anything serves merely as a conman, a visage, a cover version of the author. > And don't listen to your friends whining on about how "electronic music is so > cool because it's about the death of the author and the search for a new > signifier confronted with the pre-millennium realities of this post-modern era." > Bollocks! God is not a DJ! And a DJ will never be God. > > Despite their posturing endeavours there is no way that listening to a DJ spin a > few discs or a couple of records can have as meaningfully a corporeal effect as > watching a Nude Girls, a Groinchurn, a Nine, or a Fetish live onstage. These > people are gods! > > The appeal of rock music is that it speaks precisely to the body. It's about > embracing the fleshly textures of the music in all it's potential carnality: it's > about sex, booze, drugs and rock'n roll. All you have to do is listen and hear. > Whether you dance or not isn't an end in itself. By contrast, dance music is > simply about denial of the body. It's about a new age, smart drinking, asexual > looking, pill-popping paranoia of the flesh. > > The next time you go to a drum and bass club, just have a look at where the > kids are. Deep inside their own heads and way up their own arses. I'm sorry, > that's certainly not listening to the music. 'Cos if anything, dancing with and > inside yourself seems kinda sad to me. Who are you communicating with? The > DJ? I don't think so. They're definitely playing the music for themselves. > Perhaps the beats then? Oh, please. I think not. All you're doing is sitting in a > corner, sucking your thumb. And if that's engaging with the music, then I'm > happy to be an old bastard who still lives with his mother.
1999-09-08 15:52Irene McCOn 8 Sep 99, Darren Keast wrote re: Re: (idm) comments??: > strong impression the writer i
From:
Irene McC
To:
Date:
Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:52:11 +0200
Subject:
Re: (idm) comments??
Reply to:
Re: (idm) comments??
permalink · <E11Olsj-0005MJ-00@smtp05.iafrica.com>
On 8 Sep 99, Darren Keast wrote re: Re: (idm) comments??:
quoted 3 lines strong impression the writer is being tongue-in-cheek ("a> strong impression the writer is being tongue-in-cheek ("a > corporeal effect as watching a Nude Girls, a Groinchurn, a Nine, or a > Fetish live onstage. These people are gods!"--that MUST be a joke)
(laughing my head off, is *is* funny...) And no, he meant it seriously. I think. Sorry. By way of explantion it is encumbend upon me to point out that these are indeed all real-life South African bands. Yes it's true. Shamefully I admit this - and er, Fever Pussy wasn't even mentioned (they dress in cowboy gear - VERY bizarre!) I *
1999-09-08 13:33Adam J Weitzman> The argument that rock is superior since it demands close > attention is one of those bo
From:
Adam J Weitzman
To:
Date:
Wed, 08 Sep 1999 09:33:26 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) comments??
permalink · <37D665A6.BF8EECD0@newsedge.com>
quoted 5 lines The argument that rock is superior since it demands close> The argument that rock is superior since it demands close > attention is one of those boring old leftovers from the > editorial chambers of Spin and Rolling Stone...it's > almost as bad as the "but they don't play real instruments" > whine.
Which reminds me, Spin just reviewed Hrvatski's "Okapi Tracks" MP3 release in their current issue (the one with, uh, Kid Rock on the cover). It seems that they have a section now where they review downloadable music. There were a couple of other IDM-related things in that section as well, as I recall. NP: The Chemical Brothers - "Hey Boy Hey Girl" (have I lost *all* my cred yet? :-) ----- Adam J Weitzman --- NewsEdge Corporation ----- http://www.newsedge.com -- http://www.newspage.com "Humor is the best way of dealing with complete and utter nonsense." - John Lydon
1999-09-08 17:24Simon PaulFave lines: "All you're doing is sitting in a corner, sucking your thumb. And if that's en
From:
Simon Paul
To:
Irene McC
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 08 Sep 1999 10:24:29 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) comments??
permalink · <37D69BCC.3F28E248@radical.ca>
Fave lines: "All you're doing is sitting in a corner, sucking your thumb. And if that's engaging with the music, then I'm happy to be an old bastard who still lives with his mother." heh heh heh.....he's definitely a master of irony....ah well to each their own, writing about music is like dancing about architecture anyway :P sp Irene McC wrote:
quoted 52 lines This was written by a friend who's a free-lance correspondent for a (South> This was written by a friend who's a free-lance correspondent for a (South > African) magazine called SL : this was posted on their on-line site and had my > jaw hanging open :-) I'd be curious to hear other people's opinions on the topic. > http://sly.co.za/flashbaby_060999.asp > > Monday, 6 September > The Body Electric > Miles Keylock > Flashbaby ponders just how people engage with music > > It's no revelation that I have a fundamental problem with the way people seem > (not) to listen to music these days. It's been a major thorn in my proverbial hide > that so-called dance music genres - music that's sole function is as a > commodity which primarily allows people to dance - have such a following in > this country. > > Perhaps it's not really a question of insisting that one listen to the music, now > is it? Isn't it more an issue of how - or whether at all - people actually engage > with the music. Be this cerebrally - a desire for an escape from the stimulus of > the body, or viscerally - a search for transcendence through the body itself. > Perhaps this is one reason why fans of dance music are only too willing to > tolerate self-indulgent and exaggerated sets from DJs. > > Don't let anyone try and tell you otherwise, dancing to house music or drum > and bass or trance is about the individual losing contact with the body, literally > getting out of their heads. Ultimately dance music is not about the DJ - who, if > anything serves merely as a conman, a visage, a cover version of the author. > And don't listen to your friends whining on about how "electronic music is so > cool because it's about the death of the author and the search for a new > signifier confronted with the pre-millennium realities of this post-modern era." > Bollocks! God is not a DJ! And a DJ will never be God. > > Despite their posturing endeavours there is no way that listening to a DJ spin a > few discs or a couple of records can have as meaningfully a corporeal effect as > watching a Nude Girls, a Groinchurn, a Nine, or a Fetish live onstage. These > people are gods! > > The appeal of rock music is that it speaks precisely to the body. It's about > embracing the fleshly textures of the music in all it's potential carnality: it's > about sex, booze, drugs and rock'n roll. All you have to do is listen and hear. > Whether you dance or not isn't an end in itself. By contrast, dance music is > simply about denial of the body. It's about a new age, smart drinking, asexual > looking, pill-popping paranoia of the flesh. > > The next time you go to a drum and bass club, just have a look at where the > kids are. Deep inside their own heads and way up their own arses. I'm sorry, > that's certainly not listening to the music. 'Cos if anything, dancing with and > inside yourself seems kinda sad to me. Who are you communicating with? The > DJ? I don't think so. They're definitely playing the music for themselves. > Perhaps the beats then? Oh, please. I think not. All you're doing is sitting in a > corner, sucking your thumb. And if that's engaging with the music, then I'm > happy to be an old bastard who still lives with his mother.