IDM Mailing Archive

This morning I drove along a flyover, irritated by the slowly moving beat-up beige Chevrolet in front of me. Because I was stuck behind him, I looked at the driver and saw a hunched little old man, balding with patches of grey hair, wearing huge headphones inside his car! Besides wondering what he might be listening to, it also got me to thinking what we (collectively) might be listening to when we reach 60 or 70 - will we be pulling out Ae's LP5 and telling our grandchildren how lucky we consider ourselves to have been around at a time when this was fresh and new? Or will we have come around to Mozart? Or jazz? I *

On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Irene McC wrote:

quoted 5 lines Besides wondering what he might be listening to, it also got me to

> Besides wondering what he might be listening to, it also got me to > thinking what we (collectively) might be listening to when we reach > 60 or 70 - will we be pulling out Ae's LP5 and telling our > grandchildren how lucky we consider ourselves to have been > around at a time when this was fresh and new?

That's a good question. Had you asked me this 10 or 12 years ago, I probably would've said "Hey man, I'm gonna be listening to goth and industrial and gloomy rock for the rest of my LIFE!" But now, most of that sort of stuff has been cleared out of my collection. I still listen to bits of it, and actually enjoy a few current bands that get lumped into the "goth" category. But it certainly is well in the minority compared to the percentage of IDM stuff I listen to now. Today, I'd be more tempted to say that while this wacky IDM stuff will probably have a longer "shelf life" for me, I would like to think that the majority of the music I'm listening to when I'm 60 or 70 will be stuff that is being recorded when I'm 60 or 70. That is to say I hope that I never lose the bug for new sounds, and continue to drive my wife crazy with my habitual record buying until the day we die. :)

quoted 1 line Or will we have come around to Mozart? Or jazz?

> Or will we have come around to Mozart? Or jazz?

Oddly enough, my classical "phase" has already come and gone. I listened to that stuff a fair bit in my early 20s (sort of an extension of the ethereal-gothy stuff I was into at the time, I think), but got bored of it quickly. Perhaps I'll redevelop a taste for it when I get older. And as for jazz, I think I've already "come around" to it. Miles, Coltrane, Mingus, Hancock, Parker, etc. make up a fair (and slowly increasing) portion of my music collection. I expect that to continue. Greg

this is a question i often consider too. i'd say that a lot of it has to do with why you're listening to a particular style of music. i personally like idm for a bunch of reasons: 1. i like interesting and unique sounds, which IDM seems to thrive on. 2. i find the technology and methodologies used to create IDM (and electronic music in general) really interesting. 3. i like bizarre rhythms. :) so, i guess i feel like the first two reasons for listening to IDM have a stronger "hook" than the last. they have more to do with who i am as a person rather than just a phase in my life. even now i'm finding myself listening to more ambient music, which is concerned with 1 & 2, but generally not 3. i also feel like music technology will reach the point in 30-40 years that all this complex music we're listening to now will seem quite simple & that only the few pieces that are made to be complete works and not just sound experiments will last. but that's a whole different arguement... ethan *** Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:18:06 +0200 From: "Irene McC" <substar@iafrica.com> Subject: (idm) friday's (musical) musings This morning I drove along a flyover, irritated by the slowly moving beat-up beige Chevrolet in front of me. Because I was stuck behind him, I looked at the driver and saw a hunched little old man, balding with patches of grey hair, wearing huge headphones inside his car! Besides wondering what he might be listening to, it also got me to thinking what we (collectively) might be listening to when we reach 60 or 70 - will we be pulling out Ae's LP5 and telling our grandchildren how lucky we consider ourselves to have been around at a time when this was fresh and new? Or will we have come around to Mozart? Or jazz? I *

quoted 7 lines Today, I'd be more tempted to say that while this wacky IDM stuff will

> >Today, I'd be more tempted to say that while this wacky IDM stuff will >probably have a longer "shelf life" for me, I would like to think that the >majority of the music I'm listening to when I'm 60 or 70 will be stuff >that is being recorded when I'm 60 or 70. That is to say I hope that I >never lose the bug for new sounds, and continue to drive my wife crazy >with my habitual record buying until the day we die. :)

Agreed. Looking at it from another angle... Wouldn't it be safe to say that the production techniques and music-tech in general be so advanced that what we call crisp clean production today will in the future be the equivalent of us listening to scratchy 78's from mid-century? Who'd want to listen to those old crappy stereo recordings when you have you're 8.1 surround sound set up that gives you the full joy of the recent octosonicly enhanced releases, the year 2037 not already half over and you've got you're top10 of the year already comfortably filled. Listening to the majority of releases from the early nineties, except for a few timeless albums and others released years before their time, is already just for those moments when you reminisce about good old days and faves of the day. The early 90's have more connection to '70's electronic in aesthetics then the second half of this decade... whowouldathunk that the whole electroacoustic crackle and pop/glitch worship thing would become as large a factor as it is today? One can only drool in neophilic lust in expectation of the sounds we can only theorize about at this time, if these past few years are any signifier of the growth and audio mutations to come.

quoted 1 line Or will we have come around to Mozart? Or jazz?

> > Or will we have come around to Mozart? Or jazz?

I'd like to think we'll have our own electronic Mozart's and M. Davis's once the inevitable maturation and mastering of our instruments occurs along with the extra couple of decades it'll take for those who were born listening solely to electronic music to come into their own. A period of great change has barely started... Akashic ~~<There are some kinds of knowledge that can only be expressed in music, not in any other art, not in science or philosophy.>~~

quoted 7 lines Wouldn't it be safe to say that the production techniques and music-tech in

>Wouldn't it be safe to say that the production techniques and music-tech in >general be so advanced that what we call crisp clean production today will >in the future be the equivalent of us listening to scratchy 78's from >mid-century? Who'd want to listen to those old crappy stereo recordings >when you have you're 8.1 surround sound set up that gives you the full joy >of the recent octosonicly enhanced >releases,

I don't see this as a factor. You still watch, say, Casablanca or Citizen Kane even though they aren't in colour; anyhow, I like scratchy 78's.

quoted 4 lines Listening to the majority of

>Listening to the majority of >releases from the early nineties, except for a few timeless albums and >others released years before their time, is already just for those moments >when you reminisce about good old days and faves of the day.

You think so? I hadn't heard of idm for much of the early nineties, but getting hold of it now, it sounds pretty good. Sure, the majority of records from any period seem slightly weak in retrospect, but thats not because the music dates. Its more that we tend to be more excited (and less honest) about the exciting new 12". (Sorry if thats what you were saying all along).

quoted 3 lines One can only drool in neophilic lust in expectation of the sounds we can

>One can only drool in neophilic lust in expectation of the sounds we can >only theorize about at this time, if these past few years are any signifier >of the growth and audio mutations to come.

Even better, we can start trying to make them (and fail, rather often. I speak from experience on this one). We'd be a bit daft to sit around waiting for progress to happen like its an entirely natural force.

quoted 4 lines I'd like to think we'll have our own electronic Mozart's and M. Davis'

>I'd like to think we'll have our own electronic Mozart's and M. Davis's >once the inevitable maturation and mastering of our instruments occurs >along with the extra couple of decades it'll take for those who were born >listening solely to electronic music to come into their own.

That's true. Although I don't think its about solely listening to electronic music. Its more the people for whom synths and glitches and idm generally have no novelty value, and can just be stuck into a musicians armoury for use when, and only when, they're needed. Its like the internet will probably only come into its own when the generation for whom the internet is perfectly normal takes control. I mean, I have no hang ups about buying on line, but my parents run a mile at the thought of it.

quoted 1 line A period of great change has barely started...

>A period of great change has barely started...

Second that. Quote (slightly obvious one, but...) 'Electric music is the music of this culture and in the breaking away (not the breaking down) from previously assumed forms a new kind of music is emerging. the old forms are inadequate, not the old eternal verities but the old structures, and new music isn't new in that sense either, it is still creation which is life itself and it is only done in a new way with new materials." Ralph J Gleason, sleevenotes of Bitches Brew

Who'd want to listen to those old crappy stereo recordings >when you have you're 8.1 surround sound set up that gives you the full joy >of the recent octosonicly enhanced >releases, I don't see this as a factor. You still watch, say, Casablanca or Citizen Kane even though they aren't in colour; anyhow, I like scratchy 78's. That's why I mentioned 'a few timeless albums' later on... Though I'd like to believe there's a BIG difference between the concept of oldies in film and in electronic music. I'll have no problem watching Citizen Kane in the future (or any other Orsen Welles related movie for that matter). The music doesn't have a story line, but concepts of sound being realized, and preferred sounds/concepts of old being reintroduced/resampled. Yes, we'll always go back to the old innovative releases that sparked certain creative forms, to have a sense of history, to connect to old emotions. I guess it's all down to some of the people into the music in a pop context and once a few years go by, their tastes will freeze to whatever stretch of styles they were listening to and be listening to their good oldies while time slowly seperates them from the new 'strange' sounds coming out, as is with anyone who stops growing along with the music. (how many of you older listees have friends that are stuck in eighties electropop/industrial who are incapable of comprehending todays mainstays like autechre, mouse on mars, etc. ) Then there are those that have that streak of neophilism that's fueled their musical tastes and changes since the start, who are probably going to continue changing with the newer developments in soundsculpture. Budd's Lovely Thunder is playing in the background, and at this point I'd like to say I'll love it to bit forever into the future just like I've done in the past, but something give me the feeling that I'll find something else in the future that will succeed in recontaining the sounds and emotions within that recording, produced with some new mindblowing technology, and somehow eclipsing and extending what I felt. (yeah, I'm just restating some obvious things...) As well, I look as an example at my father who's been a classical audiophile from the sixties, constantly upgrading his system as the years passed. He's tossed the three reel to reel machines a few years back, and his CD collection is starting to collect dust now that he's switched to DVD. Aside from once a blue moon where he'll stick on an old fave CD, he's not happy unless it's digital video with full surround technology. There are so many pieces that he used to play constantly, not being rereleased in some new digital form for him to continue enjoying, he's simply archived them and gravitates to the 5.1 a/v items in his collection, as they 'don't succeed in filling the full range of senses' like the newer releases do, even if that means deposing some favorites. >Listening to the majority of >releases from the early nineties, except for a few timeless albums and >others released years before their time, is already just for those moments >when you reminisce about good old days and faves of the day. You think so? I hadn't heard of idm for much of the early nineties, but getting hold of it now, it sounds pretty good. Sure, the majority of records from any period seem slightly weak in retrospect, but thats not because the music dates. Its more that we tend to be more excited (and less honest) about the exciting new 12". (Sorry if thats what you were saying all along). All the people I know who's been changing along with the styles since acidhouse seem to share the similar thought that the first few years were just a general structuring, with the recent years concentrating more on greater innovation. I would deem the early 80's more innovative than the early 90's within electronic music, but that's just my opinion. My last purchases were some old Zoviet France LP's and Network 21 12"s, and I was quite excited for those finds as well.... (I'm partial to scratchy old records too :-) ) Akashic "There are some kinds of knowledge that can only be expressed in music, not in any other art, not in science or philosophy."

At 05:18 PM 9/3/99 +0200, Irene McC wrote:

quoted 3 lines it also got me to

>it also got me to >thinking what we (collectively) might be listening to when we reach >60 or 70 -

Gangsta Bluegrass Che

Minimalist skiffle. jeff Che wrote:

quoted 9 lines At 05:18 PM 9/3/99 +0200, Irene McC wrote:

> At 05:18 PM 9/3/99 +0200, Irene McC wrote: > > >it also got me to > >thinking what we (collectively) might be listening to when we reach > >60 or 70 - > > Gangsta Bluegrass > > Che

-- jeff "10,000 people all screaming the same thing at the same time are wrong, even if they're right." dancing/about/architecture "...with wandering steps and slow..." ICQ904008

quoted 5 lines Wouldn't it be safe to say that the production techniques and music-tech in

> Wouldn't it be safe to say that the production techniques and music-tech in > general be so advanced that what we call crisp clean production today will > in the future be the equivalent of us listening to scratchy 78's from > mid-century? Who'd want to listen to those old crappy stereo recordings > when you have you're 8.1 surround sound set up that gives you the full joy

beg to differ. since the advent of the cd & then dat, minidisc, etc., innovation has been more frequent, but also less & less important. i think it's safe to expect music equipment to be pretty similar 20-30 years from now -- different formats, perhaps, but a very similar way of hearing music. we may have expensive home theatre surround systems to boast & all sorts of assorted gadgets to make our listening experience look a little more like 'the future', but i bet we won't be reinventing digital media anytime soon. i still like my turntable. -- david