IDM Mailing Archive

Respect to Mr Weatherall and Mr Tenniswood for the work on The Fifth Mission. I haven't stopped listening to it since this morning. - Hary J Walsh It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare; it is because we do not dare that they are difficult. -Seneca

quoted 3 lines Modernism started at the turn of the last century, as a reaction to

>Modernism started at the turn of the last century, as a reaction to >the Victorian/Romantic movement of the 19th Century, which, in turn was >a reaction to the Enlightenment period of the 18th century, which was a

-snippity snip, choppity chop- dude, is this an essay you did in highschool or something? not everything is a "reaction" to something else. this is especially relevant to your aforementioned "movements". if you're gonna attempt to talk about [art] history don't go into generalizations. looking at the big picture is missing the point entirely. and the point is that there really isn't a point. (i think that makes sense)

quoted 2 lines I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology,

>I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology, >and that most of what is being said about that right now is about as accurate

that's a funny one. how misguided is THAT comment!? tomas

Is this anything other than an ad hominem attack on me personally? I was writing off the top of my head, and while very much a generalization, it is a useful generalization. It is also a demonstrably valid interpretation of the historical record. Not a complete explication, but especially useful in terms of the task at hand -- to explain why 'modern' isn't 'now' and why we're post-post-modern now. You seem to argue that everything is sui generis and that there are no conclusions that can be drawn about anything. Feel free to give us your considered academic opinion on the history of human thought, but unless you have something useful to contribute, don't just ride my jock. kent williams -- kent@avalon.net On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Tomas Jirku wrote:

quoted 21 lines Modernism started at the turn of the last century, as a reaction to

> >Modernism started at the turn of the last century, as a reaction to > >the Victorian/Romantic movement of the 19th Century, which, in turn was > >a reaction to the Enlightenment period of the 18th century, which was a > > -snippity snip, choppity chop- > > dude, is this an essay you did in highschool or something? not > everything is a "reaction" to something else. this is especially > relevant to your aforementioned "movements". if you're gonna attempt to > talk about [art] history don't go into generalizations. looking at the > big picture is missing the point entirely. and the point is that there > really isn't a point. (i think that makes sense) > > >I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology, > >and that most of what is being said about that right now is about as accurate > > that's a funny one. how misguided is THAT comment!? > > > tomas >

On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, ChairCrusher wrote:

quoted 6 lines Is this anything other than an ad hominem attack on me personally?

> Is this anything other than an ad hominem attack on me personally? > I was writing off the top of my head, and while very much a generalization, > it is a useful generalization. It is also a demonstrably valid interpretation > of the historical record. Not a complete explication, but especially > useful in terms of the task at hand -- to explain why 'modern' isn't 'now' > and why we're post-post-modern now.

Do you realize you used 'ad hominem' in a sentence? Do you expect us to buy that kind of silliness? Your point would have had the same impact had you left out your little Latin skills. - wells

On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, wells wrote:

quoted 2 lines buy that kind of silliness? Your point would have had the same impact had

> buy that kind of silliness? Your point would have had the same impact had > you left out your little Latin skills.

Yet another IDM thread terminates with "Wells ex machina." -rob ("ooh, you speak French!")

quoted 2 lines I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology,

> >I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology, > >and that most of what is being said about that right now is about as accurate

Modern, when it is used in relation to art, almost always means "that era 40-60 years ago." Case in point: poetry. In the 50s the "modern" era of poetry meant the Romantics, ie Blake, Coleridge, Keats, Byron, etc. Today, the "modern" poets are the those who wrote in the 20s & 30s such as Eliot, Pound, Cummings, William Carlos Williams, Wallace Stevens, Marianne Moore, etc. By the time we reach 2020 maybe the highly touted writers of the 50s and 60s will be considered "modern." My whole point to this is the terms "modern" and "post-modern" are rediculously subjective. So why even bother?

dodging the post/modernism discussion... my latest nugget of not quite up to date goodness is two lone swordsmen's "the fifth mission (return to the flightpath estate)" and it's quite a keeper. nice downtempo stuff, blissfully ignorant of d&b, drill&b or general digital wankery, just some nice evocative sounds. getting to the point, how is their recent one ("stay down"?) and how does it compare to "the fifth mission", and, have I missed anything of note from them? thanks for catching me up rob np- laika "sounds of the satellites" (tls just ended.)

quoted 3 lines getting to the point, how is their recent one ("stay down"?) and how does

>getting to the point, how is their recent one ("stay down"?) and how does >it compare to "the fifth mission", and, have I missed anything of note >from them?

they're quite different! "stay down" is an excellent collection of downtempo, electro, and techno bits, all of which are denser than the tracks on "fifth mission." "fifth" is largely an experimental beats record and "stay down" is more listener-friendly AOE. "stay down" is still living near the front of my crate six months on; "fifth mission" is a landmark collection in its own right. eric

quoted 4 lines my latest nugget of not quite up to date goodness is two lone

> my latest nugget of not quite up to date goodness is two lone > swordsmen's "the fifth mission (return to the flightpath estate)" and > it's quite a keeper. nice downtempo stuff, blissfully ignorant of d&b, > drill&b or general digital wankery, just some nice evocative sounds.

Funnily enough, I find almost all two lone swordsmen unlistenable because of the horrible electro beats, straightjacketingly uninteresting. Same reason I can't listen to most Freeform. Give me Mu-ziq's Lunatic Harness or Squarepusher up to Big Loada any day. Or the "digital wankery" of Fennesz or Farmers Manual, 1000% more evocative than tls imho. I think that Stay Down and the EP that came before it (esp Bad Commandments Part 2) are their best work. Sorry for the completly uninformative post. I always feel that I ought to weigh in with a different opinion though - I buy so much by mailorder that I rely on people's opinions very often and having bought Freeform due to reviews and not liked most of it (a couple of tracks on make me keep it, the vocal sampling ones) I just want to offer something different. No disrespect to Robert Geary who made the original post. Peter. -- Peter Hollo raven@fourplay.com.au http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.fourplay.com.au Raven: experimental electronic http://www.fourplay.com.au/sound.html "Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag.

quoted 9 lines swordsmen's "the fifth mission (return to the flightpath estate)" and

> > swordsmen's "the fifth mission (return to the flightpath estate)" and > > it's quite a keeper. nice downtempo stuff, blissfully ignorant of d&b, > > drill&b or general digital wankery, just some nice evocative sounds. > Funnily enough, I find almost all two lone swordsmen unlistenable > because of the horrible electro beats, straightjacketingly > uninteresting. Same reason I can't listen to most Freeform. > Give me Mu-ziq's Lunatic Harness or Squarepusher up to Big Loada any > day. Or the "digital wankery" of Fennesz or Farmers Manual, 1000% more > evocative than tls imho.

oh, not trying to put a value judgement on digital wankery at all, in fact, it's one of my favorite things about this music. where else do people get excited about the tiny differences in a machine's settings (other than on an airplane) or the sounds of skipping cd's? digital wankery is where it's at. that said, man cannot live on autechre alone, so sometimes something more...funky (?) is pleasing. i also use the term wankery because i am blissfully ignorant of such arcana as DSP and upper level programming.

quoted 3 lines Sorry for the completly uninformative post. I always feel that I ought

> Sorry for the completly uninformative post. I always feel that I ought > to weigh in with a different opinion though - I buy so much by mailorder > that I rely on people's opinions very often and having bought Freeform

same thing happend to me with bola. great reviews, and obviously tasteful, i just found it...boring. still, all the info listmembers impart, i find indispensible. loose ends: mark de gli antoni of soul coughing is a monster with the sampler. he is the keystone of that band. (I love doughty's voice, but then, i'm partial to wackier vox.) of course, i think yuval gabay outshined the entire band put together on "el oso" - it's a drummer's album for the ages. heck, i think even drum programmers could learn some tricks there. "wells ex machina"...jeez, i don't think i've ever laughed so hard from this list. of course, it's 3:30 am. must! stop! rambling! rob np-- electric company, "soundcard." over and over and over in my head. once you've heard this played too loud on a crummy car stereo in a hot car on the way into NYC...well, that's a small part of your sanity you'll never be getting back.

yes, it was on the american CD single and on a limited edition vinyl release. The CD single was readily available. I thnik tower records still has quie a few. From TLS site (http://www.hyperreal.org/music/flightpath/Flightpath.html): [Spiritualized: Come Together] [on Spriritualized: The Abbey Road EP] 12": 1998 UK (Arista/Dedicated; sprit015tdj) [limited x1000] [Jun 1998] CD5: 1998 US (Arista/Dedicated; 07822-13508-2) [May 1998] 15:31 Come Together (Two Lone Swordsmen mix) [remix and additional production] First time I heard it I was not taken by it. But like a lot of their music it takes repeated listens to get into and now I think it is one of their better mixes. They are definitely one of my top 5 favorite bands. -daniel Head Monkey Mad Monkey Records http://monkey.eliteware.com On Fri, 6 Aug 1999 TheevilD@aol.com wrote:

quoted 9 lines Was the Two Lone Swordsmen mix (or it might just have been andy wetherall) of

> Was the Two Lone Swordsmen mix (or it might just have been andy wetherall) of > Come Together by Spiritualised ever released? I spent ages looking for it, > but to no avail. > > Jorkens > > 'Prisons are built with stones of law, brothels with bricks of religion' > (Blake) >

At 7:34 AM -0400 8/6/99, TheevilD@aol.com wrote:

quoted 3 lines Was the Two Lone Swordsmen mix (or it might just have been andy wetherall) of

>Was the Two Lone Swordsmen mix (or it might just have been andy wetherall) of >Come Together by Spiritualised ever released? I spent ages looking for it, >but to no avail.

yes, it was released on CD in the US only and on very limited vinyl in the UK (1000 i think) [Spiritualized: Come Together] ["Come Together Remixes"] 12": 1998 UK (Spaceman Records; SPIRIT015TDJ/SPACEMAN1) [on Spriritualized: The Abbey Road EP] CD5: 1998 US (Arista/Dedicated; 07822-13508-2) [May 1998] 15:31 Come Together (Two Lone Swordsmen mix)

quoted 3 lines same thing happend to me with bola. great reviews, and obviously

> same thing happend to me with bola. great reviews, and obviously > tasteful, i just found it...boring. still, all the info listmembers > impart, i find indispensible.

*tee hee* Yep fair enough... Whilst I think the Bola is one of the most evocative and beautiful albums of last year. What does this mean? Nothing, except that all those stores in London and New York that don't let you listen to music before you buy it should take their heads out of their asses. Mind you, I buy most of my stuff while I'm in Australia by mail-order from pj, without having heard it. So I have to rely on the reviews and descriptions from the idm-list and Wire magazine pretty much (and some other sources of course). Peter. -- Peter Hollo raven@fourplay.com.au http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.fourplay.com.au Raven: experimental electronic http://www.fourplay.com.au/sound.html "Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag.