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(idm) meta-modern

19 messages · 11 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 3 subjects: (idm) another oneliner · (idm) meta-modern · (idm) two lone swordsmen
1999-08-05 18:04Matthew Allen RE: (idm) another oneliner
1999-08-05 18:17david turgeon Re: (idm) another oneliner
└─ 1999-08-05 19:34ChairCrusher (idm) meta-modern
1999-08-05 20:52david turgeon Re: (idm) meta-modern
└─ 1999-08-05 21:16ChairCrusher Re: (idm) meta-modern
├─ 1999-08-05 21:39Zenon M. Feszczak Re: (idm) meta-modern
└─ 1999-08-05 21:53eric hill Re: (idm) meta-modern
1999-08-05 21:26david turgeon Re: (idm) meta-modern
1999-08-05 22:08Tomas Jirku Re: (idm) meta-modern
└─ 1999-08-06 15:25ChairCrusher Re: (idm) meta-modern
└─ 1999-08-06 15:31wells Re: (idm) meta-modern
└─ 1999-08-06 16:00R. Lim Re: (idm) meta-modern
1999-08-05 22:34Sharon Maher Re: (idm) meta-modern
└─ 1999-08-05 22:39sun rob and his arkestra (idm) two lone swordsmen
└─ 1999-08-05 23:39eric hill Re: (idm) two lone swordsmen
1999-08-05 23:30m Re: (idm) meta-modern
1999-08-06 15:42Tomas Jirku Re: (idm) meta-modern
└─ 1999-08-06 16:24ChairCrusher Re: (idm) meta-modern
1999-08-06 17:30Tomas Jirku Re: (idm) meta-modern
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1999-08-05 18:04Matthew AllenAs a smart ass remark... Actually the point is interesting. If the tenant of Post-modernis
From:
Matthew Allen
To:
'david turgeon'
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:04:54 -0700
Subject:
RE: (idm) another oneliner
permalink · <A4616F893E30D11199CD0000C0618AE5FB8BF7@mailserver.lith.com>
As a smart ass remark... Actually the point is interesting. If the tenant of Post-modernism is, that at its very core, a movement that isnt a movement. An idea where any thing, any idea, is valid (be it baroque architecture with killer robots instead of finely crafted saints in the wood walls, or big toilets made out of plastic and filled with styrofoam). I Sorta see the pendulum swinging back really quite far the other way. To some sort of uber-modernism. Something were rules are created and very stricly adhered to. Like if your doing an Electro track you have to use very specific sounds and a very recognizable beat. Or we'll all just keep doing whatever the hell we so desire and postmodernism will never die. m. -----Original Message----- From: david turgeon [mailto:david@evolutiontech.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 10:57 AM To: Matthew Allen Cc: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (idm) another oneliner
quoted 1 line meta-modernism> meta-modernism
i can sort of see where you're getting at, but just to make sure, how do you define that? -- david
1999-08-05 18:17david turgeon> Actually the point is interesting. If the tenant of Post-modernism is, that > at its ver
From:
david turgeon
To:
Matthew Allen
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 05 Aug 1999 14:17:13 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) another oneliner
permalink · <37A9D529.880C578A@evolutiontech.com>
quoted 5 lines Actually the point is interesting. If the tenant of Post-modernism is, that> Actually the point is interesting. If the tenant of Post-modernism is, that > at its very core, a movement that isnt a movement. An idea where any thing, > any idea, is valid (be it baroque architecture with killer robots instead of > finely crafted saints in the wood walls, or big toilets made out of plastic > and filled with styrofoam).
validity is one thing, but will people use them? like them? i personally like my toilet without styrofoam.
quoted 4 lines I Sorta see the pendulum swinging back really> I Sorta see the pendulum swinging back really > quite far the other way. To some sort of uber-modernism. Something were > rules are created and very stricly adhered to. Like if your doing an Electro > track you have to use very specific sounds and a very recognizable beat.
people do that, & did that since the inception of techno. people did that since the beginnings of religion & organized life. should that really be defined as modernism, be it uber?
quoted 2 lines Or we'll all just keep doing whatever the hell we so desire and> Or we'll all just keep doing whatever the hell we so desire and > postmodernism will never die.
that doesn't seem to be the direction we're headed to. or maybe by metamodernism you meant that some would follow modernist ways & some postmodernist ones, but all the while _knowing_ that one isn't better than the other & that both have good & bad sides. so the next step would be knowing that you're knowing, & that whether you know or not doesn't make a difference? how far can we go with that? -- david
1999-08-05 19:34ChairCrusherThere is a tendency, when describing different movements of intellectual thought and artis
From:
ChairCrusher
To:
iduhntuhbelluhbiguhbent duhbance muhbusuhbic
Date:
Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:34:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
(idm) meta-modern
Reply to:
Re: (idm) another oneliner
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.990805134115.17327Q-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
There is a tendency, when describing different movements of intellectual thought and artistic development, to act like there was a particular point of time where one could stand and see the whole vista of time clearly. This isn't really the case (DUH) but there you have it. Modernism started at the turn of the last century, as a reaction to the Victorian/Romantic movement of the 19th Century, which, in turn was a reaction to the Enlightenment period of the 18th century, which was a reaction, in turn, to the 'baroque' period of the 17th century, which was really the consolidation of the Renaissance, which was the re-establishment of world trade, scientific enquiry and the beginning of the rule of law, after what is usually called 'Middle Ages.' And the Middle Ages went from roughly the fall of Rome up until the 16th Century. The Middle ages, I think, were fairly accurately summarized by Mark Twain in "Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court," and "Monty Python's Holy Grail." But ANYWAY, modernism was pretty much killed by the world wars in the 20th Century. Post-modernism is everything after that, for better or worse, and we're now kind of in the interregnum between post-modern thought and whatever is going to follow that. I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology, and that most of what is being said about that right now is about as accurate as Popular Mechanics writing about 'personal helicopters' in the 40's. To bring it back on-topic -- if you look at what we call IDM, the work being done by Rich Devine, Push Button Objects, Autechre, Aphex Twin, the Kracfive crew, et al, you can draw some conclusions about the digital age. 1. Everything is just bits. If you wanted you could build a piece of music by typing in a few million 16 bit integers. 2. The difference between 'authentic' and 'fake' is impossible to determine, and probably completely beside the point. Is there a difference between a sampled string section and a real one? Perhaps, but I just edited and mastered a recording of a string quartet, where I assembled a 15 minute piece out of about 30 separate takes, and then did some not-so-subtle sonic manipulations to produce the master. How is that different from what, say, Amon Tobin or Luke Vibert does? 3. As a corrolary to 2, something can be completely synthetic -- i.e. created from bits and bobs entirely in a computer -- and at the same time be emotionally authentic. 4. There's no separating the medium and the message. So Oval making tracks by defacing CD's and sampling the glitches is as valid as playing a violin. The same thing holds for the continuing popularity of vinyl records -- the fact that you're wiggling a diamond needle in a groove informs the music. 5. Everything is interactive -- strangely enough before Cool Herc and Granmaster Flash, people used to drop the needle in the first groove, and then leave it play until the turntable picked the needle back up at the end of the side. The whole art of turntablism comes down to making something interactive that once was a passive, unidirectional experience. 6. There is no such thing as physical distance in the digital world. I can collaborate with a musician in Germany or Slovenia or New Zealand as easy as with someone who lives round the corner. Easier in fact, because my studio gets crowded if there's more than 2 people in it. 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise the signal -- see Oval again. At any rate I'm going to stop now before doing the full David Toop or Simon Reynolds tapdance. kent williams -- kent@avalon.net
1999-08-05 20:52david turgeon> 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise > the signal --
From:
david turgeon
To:
ChairCrusher
Cc:
iduhntuhbelluhbiguhbent duhbance muhbusuhbic
Date:
Thu, 05 Aug 1999 16:52:33 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <37A9F991.B182540B@evolutiontech.com>
quoted 2 lines 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise> 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise > the signal -- see Oval again.
so if there's no distinction between anything, how come do people still manage to find oval's songs 'soothing' & say, disc's songs 'disturbing', considering that they use the same source material? can postmodernism answer that? -- david
1999-08-05 21:16ChairCrusherOn Thu, 5 Aug 1999, david turgeon wrote: > > 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctio
From:
ChairCrusher
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david turgeon
Cc:
iduhntuhbelluhbiguhbent duhbance muhbusuhbic
Date:
Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:16:21 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
Reply to:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.990805161355.17327U-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, david turgeon wrote:
quoted 9 lines 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise> > 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise > > the signal -- see Oval again. > > so if there's no distinction between anything, how come do people still > manage to find oval's songs 'soothing' & say, disc's songs 'disturbing', > considering that they use the same source material? > > can postmodernism answer that? >
We're meta-modern here, not postmodern. there is a difference between henny young using a violin and yehudi menuhin using the same violin. Using the source materials just means using the same source materials. I use the same alphabet as Jackie Collins or Kahlil Gibran, and no one mistakes me for them.
1999-08-05 21:39Zenon M. Feszczak>On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, david turgeon wrote: > > > > 7. Signal and noise are artificial disti
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Zenon M. Feszczak
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Date:
Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:39:24 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
Reply to:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <v04210112b3cfb39cc01b@dialin0309.upenn.edu>
quoted 5 lines On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, david turgeon wrote:>On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, david turgeon wrote: > > > > 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise > > > the signal -- see Oval again. > >
"Aritificial"? Do you mean "subjective"? Or actually constructed? At any rate, none of these views implies that the distinction is meaningless. Noise becoming music, music becoming noise. Nothing new. Bang two rocks together. When does it become music? Draw a line in the sand. I say "tomato", you say "samba". Subtractive synthesis begins with pure noise. The Art of Noise is paranoid. Bad music is more offensive than noise. The road to bad music is paved with good intentions. Intensions. Whatever. What's that noise? Do you have any drums in your house? I'd rather be a trainspotter than a nail. Love in the age of sampling. Intellectual property values are down; there goes the neighborhood. If you'll excuse me, I seem to have deconstructed my own mind. 3
1999-08-05 21:53eric hill>> > 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise >> > the sign
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eric hill
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Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:53:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
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Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.10.9908051450040.9197-100000@shell3.ba.best.com>
quoted 8 lines 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise>> > 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise >> > the signal -- see Oval again. >> >> so if there's no distinction between anything, how come do people still >> manage to find oval's songs 'soothing' & say, disc's songs 'disturbing', >> considering that they use the same source material? >> >> can postmodernism answer that?
azk djay spooky tha subliminal kid!!!!! he's had his musical thumb up the postmodern's ass for as long as anybody, and he likes to talk about it. alot. eric onnow: v/a : double articulation (sub rosa)
1999-08-05 21:26david turgeon> We're meta-modern here, not postmodern. there is a difference between > henny young usin
From:
david turgeon
To:
ChairCrusher
Cc:
iduhntuhbelluhbiguhbent duhbance muhbusuhbic
Date:
Thu, 05 Aug 1999 17:26:19 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <37AA017B.CD88CEC5@evolutiontech.com>
quoted 5 lines We're meta-modern here, not postmodern. there is a difference between> We're meta-modern here, not postmodern. there is a difference between > henny young using a violin and yehudi menuhin using the same violin. > Using the source materials just means using the same source materials. > I use the same alphabet as Jackie Collins or Kahlil Gibran, and no one > mistakes me for them.
yeah, that is definitely a meta-modern stance as i understand it. everything is the same when that works, & everything is different when it doesn't. :) -- david
1999-08-05 22:08Tomas Jirku>Modernism started at the turn of the last century, as a reaction to >the Victorian/Romant
From:
Tomas Jirku
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Cc:
Date:
Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:08:43 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <37AA0B6B.194B@yirku.com>
quoted 3 lines Modernism started at the turn of the last century, as a reaction to>Modernism started at the turn of the last century, as a reaction to >the Victorian/Romantic movement of the 19th Century, which, in turn was >a reaction to the Enlightenment period of the 18th century, which was a
-snippity snip, choppity chop- dude, is this an essay you did in highschool or something? not everything is a "reaction" to something else. this is especially relevant to your aforementioned "movements". if you're gonna attempt to talk about [art] history don't go into generalizations. looking at the big picture is missing the point entirely. and the point is that there really isn't a point. (i think that makes sense)
quoted 2 lines I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology,>I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology, >and that most of what is being said about that right now is about as accurate
that's a funny one. how misguided is THAT comment!? tomas
1999-08-06 15:25ChairCrusherIs this anything other than an ad hominem attack on me personally? I was writing off the t
From:
ChairCrusher
To:
Tomas Jirku
Cc:
Date:
Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:25:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
Reply to:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.990806101713.14093C-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
Is this anything other than an ad hominem attack on me personally? I was writing off the top of my head, and while very much a generalization, it is a useful generalization. It is also a demonstrably valid interpretation of the historical record. Not a complete explication, but especially useful in terms of the task at hand -- to explain why 'modern' isn't 'now' and why we're post-post-modern now. You seem to argue that everything is sui generis and that there are no conclusions that can be drawn about anything. Feel free to give us your considered academic opinion on the history of human thought, but unless you have something useful to contribute, don't just ride my jock. kent williams -- kent@avalon.net On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Tomas Jirku wrote:
quoted 21 lines Modernism started at the turn of the last century, as a reaction to> >Modernism started at the turn of the last century, as a reaction to > >the Victorian/Romantic movement of the 19th Century, which, in turn was > >a reaction to the Enlightenment period of the 18th century, which was a > > -snippity snip, choppity chop- > > dude, is this an essay you did in highschool or something? not > everything is a "reaction" to something else. this is especially > relevant to your aforementioned "movements". if you're gonna attempt to > talk about [art] history don't go into generalizations. looking at the > big picture is missing the point entirely. and the point is that there > really isn't a point. (i think that makes sense) > > >I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology, > >and that most of what is being said about that right now is about as accurate > > that's a funny one. how misguided is THAT comment!? > > > tomas >
1999-08-06 15:31wellsOn Fri, 6 Aug 1999, ChairCrusher wrote: > Is this anything other than an ad hominem attack
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wells
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ChairCrusher
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Tomas Jirku ,
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Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:31:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
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Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <Pine.A41.4.03.9908061130090.124524-100000@titan.vcu.edu>
On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, ChairCrusher wrote:
quoted 6 lines Is this anything other than an ad hominem attack on me personally?> Is this anything other than an ad hominem attack on me personally? > I was writing off the top of my head, and while very much a generalization, > it is a useful generalization. It is also a demonstrably valid interpretation > of the historical record. Not a complete explication, but especially > useful in terms of the task at hand -- to explain why 'modern' isn't 'now' > and why we're post-post-modern now.
Do you realize you used 'ad hominem' in a sentence? Do you expect us to buy that kind of silliness? Your point would have had the same impact had you left out your little Latin skills. - wells
1999-08-06 16:00R. LimOn Fri, 6 Aug 1999, wells wrote: > buy that kind of silliness? Your point would have had t
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R. Lim
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Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:00:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
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Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <Pine.BSI.4.02.9908061158310.16917-100000@escape.com>
On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, wells wrote:
quoted 2 lines buy that kind of silliness? Your point would have had the same impact had> buy that kind of silliness? Your point would have had the same impact had > you left out your little Latin skills.
Yet another IDM thread terminates with "Wells ex machina." -rob ("ooh, you speak French!")
1999-08-05 22:34Sharon Maher> >I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology, > >and that m
From:
Sharon Maher
To:
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Thu, 05 Aug 1999 15:34:22 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <37AA116E.EABBE5F6@looksmart.net>
quoted 2 lines I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology,> >I think the key to post-post modernism is the rise of digital technology, > >and that most of what is being said about that right now is about as accurate
Modern, when it is used in relation to art, almost always means "that era 40-60 years ago." Case in point: poetry. In the 50s the "modern" era of poetry meant the Romantics, ie Blake, Coleridge, Keats, Byron, etc. Today, the "modern" poets are the those who wrote in the 20s & 30s such as Eliot, Pound, Cummings, William Carlos Williams, Wallace Stevens, Marianne Moore, etc. By the time we reach 2020 maybe the highly touted writers of the 50s and 60s will be considered "modern." My whole point to this is the terms "modern" and "post-modern" are rediculously subjective. So why even bother?
1999-08-05 22:39sun rob and his arkestradodging the post/modernism discussion... my latest nugget of not quite up to date goodness
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sun rob and his arkestra
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Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:39:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
(idm) two lone swordsmen
Reply to:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <Pine.GSO.4.10.9908051835390.28596-100000@minerva.cis.yale.edu>
dodging the post/modernism discussion... my latest nugget of not quite up to date goodness is two lone swordsmen's "the fifth mission (return to the flightpath estate)" and it's quite a keeper. nice downtempo stuff, blissfully ignorant of d&b, drill&b or general digital wankery, just some nice evocative sounds. getting to the point, how is their recent one ("stay down"?) and how does it compare to "the fifth mission", and, have I missed anything of note from them? thanks for catching me up rob np- laika "sounds of the satellites" (tls just ended.)
1999-08-05 23:39eric hill>getting to the point, how is their recent one ("stay down"?) and how does >it compare to
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eric hill
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Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:39:01 -0700 (PDT)
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Re: (idm) two lone swordsmen
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(idm) two lone swordsmen
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.10.9908051632480.9197-100000@shell3.ba.best.com>
quoted 3 lines getting to the point, how is their recent one ("stay down"?) and how does>getting to the point, how is their recent one ("stay down"?) and how does >it compare to "the fifth mission", and, have I missed anything of note >from them?
they're quite different! "stay down" is an excellent collection of downtempo, electro, and techno bits, all of which are denser than the tracks on "fifth mission." "fifth" is largely an experimental beats record and "stay down" is more listener-friendly AOE. "stay down" is still living near the front of my crate six months on; "fifth mission" is a landmark collection in its own right. eric
1999-08-05 23:30mOf course we can see all of time from here... ;-) ChairCrusher wrote: > > 1. Everything is
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m
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ChairCrusher
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Date:
Thu, 05 Aug 1999 15:30:57 -0800
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <37AA1EA2.4531@foundrysite.com>
Of course we can see all of time from here... ;-) ChairCrusher wrote:
quoted 3 lines 1. Everything is just bits. If you wanted you could build a piece of music> > 1. Everything is just bits. If you wanted you could build a piece of music > by typing in a few million 16 bit integers.
true, but so what... there have always been mutliple ways of doing things, this is just the current incarnation/technology/modus operandi.
quoted 8 lines 2. The difference between 'authentic' and 'fake' is impossible to dete> > 2. The difference between 'authentic' and 'fake' is impossible to determine, > and probably completely beside the point. Is there a difference between > a sampled string section and a real one? Perhaps, but I just edited and > mastered a recording of a string quartet, where I assembled a 15 minute > piece out of about 30 separate takes, and then did some not-so-subtle > sonic manipulations to produce the master. How is that different from > what, say, Amon Tobin or Luke Vibert does?
It involved people that know how to play violins, violas, cellos and were able to string two notes together without electricity. I am not intending to devalue what anybody does with this statement, I am answering the question.
quoted 4 lines 3. As a corrolary to 2, something can be completely synthetic -- i.e.> > 3. As a corrolary to 2, something can be completely synthetic -- i.e. > created from bits and bobs entirely in a computer -- and at the > same time be emotionally authentic.
true again, but so what, this has always been the case. Art created with different techniques, attitudes and technologies can evoke the same response, we simply have created different tools, from rocks to flutes, to violins to computers. They are all just tools. Besides, one can argue that the viewer supplies all works with life anyways, not the creator, so where he/she is at in time/space/etc. is more important than where the artist is and what he/she used as tools. ;-)
quoted 4 lines 4. There's no separating the medium and the message. So Oval making tracks> 4. There's no separating the medium and the message. So Oval making tracks > by defacing CD's and sampling the glitches is as valid as playing a violin. > The same thing holds for the continuing popularity of vinyl records -- the > fact that you're wiggling a diamond needle in a groove informs the music.
I don't think anyone here is questioning validity (though some others might), all expression is valid, but perhaps not all equally useful or emotionally connected. As for medium/message, yes and no. If you are concerned with the response only, and if different media can evoke the same response, then what is the difference? If you are trying to comment on a specific context (time, place, culture, etc.) then the media is inescapably part of the statement, and at least some of IDM claims to do that.
quoted 5 lines 5. Everything is interactive -- strangely enough before Cool Herc and> 5. Everything is interactive -- strangely enough before Cool Herc and > Granmaster Flash, people used to drop the needle in the first groove, > and then leave it play until the turntable picked the needle back up at the > end of the side. The whole art of turntablism comes down to making something > interactive that once was a passive, unidirectional experience.
Life is interactive, art/expression is part of life, so what again... atomization takes place. We break this down into finer and finer bits. A record is played all the way through, a record is played one track at a time, a record is played one second at a time... is it different or just smaller and smaller?
quoted 5 lines 6. There is no such thing as physical distance in the digital world. I can> > 6. There is no such thing as physical distance in the digital world. I can > collaborate with a musician in Germany or Slovenia or New Zealand as easy > as with someone who lives round the corner. Easier in fact, because > my studio gets crowded if there's more than 2 people in it.
Yes, that is amazing. Read Virilio, he says lots about this. However, we are still beings in the physical world, and so the physical world still has an impact on our consciousness. What is the interaction between levels of virtuality (digital, physical, psychological)? A VERY COMPLEX QUESTION!
quoted 3 lines 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise> > 7. Signal and noise are artificial distinctions. You can make the noise > the signal -- see Oval again.
Not artificial, just subjective. We all draw clear distinctions, from day to day, minute to minute. Today CD X annoyed me because it sounded like noise, tomorrow CD X sounds like music... clear subjective distinctions, just mutable in time and space, and of course between people. Thanks for sharing these thoughts, Kent, it is fun to read and write about this stuff and turn ideas over. I like to see posts with content! m -- the foundry realaudio samples via: http://www.foundrysite.com/sounds1.html out now... eM <the motor sessions ep> (lmtd. 7"/lmtd. cdr) the foundry <mote> (cd) coming soon... eM remix on <knots> issued on thousand/wmo [out 8/10/99] http://wiremailorder.com/thousand/knots.htm
1999-08-06 15:42Tomas Jirkukent's use of slang was just as unsuccessful. i never have, and don't plan to "ride your j
From:
Tomas Jirku
To:
Date:
Fri, 06 Aug 1999 11:42:16 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <37AB0258.466C@yirku.com>
kent's use of slang was just as unsuccessful. i never have, and don't plan to "ride your jock". tomas
quoted 10 lines Is this anything other than an ad hominem attack on me personally?> > Is this anything other than an ad hominem attack on me personally? > > I was writing off the top of my head, and while very much a generalization, > > > > considered academic opinion on the history of human thought, but unless you > > have something useful to contribute, don't just ride my jock. > > Do you realize you used 'ad hominem' in a sentence? Do you expect us to > buy that kind of silliness? Your point would have had the same impact had > you left out your little Latin skills. >
1999-08-06 16:24ChairCrusherOn Fri, 6 Aug 1999, Tomas Jirku wrote: > kent's use of slang was just as unsuccessful. i n
From:
ChairCrusher
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Tomas Jirku
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Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:24:34 -0500 (CDT)
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Re: (idm) meta-modern
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Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.990806111254.14093H-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, Tomas Jirku wrote:
quoted 3 lines kent's use of slang was just as unsuccessful. i never have, and don't> kent's use of slang was just as unsuccessful. i never have, and don't > plan to "ride your jock". >
When someone starts attacking your language instead of what you're saying, you know they're just fucking with you and don't have anything valid to say. I'm more than willing to learn from you if you have something useful to say, but your rebuttal of my original post was even more vague and general than my post, and the tone of it disagreed with me. Maybe I'm having a bad week (I am), but it annoyed me. Maybe I'm a pompous fool and state the obvious over and over, but I don't post to IDM that often, and when I do I try to share information and opinion in as articulate and well reasoned a way as I can manage. I'm prepared to be shown wrong, and corrected, but your response added nothing to the discourse and amounted to taking cheap shots at me. So once again FUCK YALL. If you want to continue this pissing match lets take it to private e-mail.
1999-08-06 17:30Tomas Jirkuwhat i was saying in my initial post is that you have to be careful how you approach a top
From:
Tomas Jirku
To:
ChairCrusher
Cc:
Date:
Fri, 06 Aug 1999 13:30:22 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) meta-modern
permalink · <37AB1BAE.1B9@yirku.com>
what i was saying in my initial post is that you have to be careful how you approach a topic like art history. linking art movements is not as simple as it seems because, in retrospect, we are very selective in what we feel is relevant. don't believe everything you are taught in school becuase there is alot more to an individual's influences than a reaction to previous movements. you begin to wonder why "old masters" of the modern era were misunderstood in their time yet we highly revere them now as geniuses. you can't remove them from the context of what surrounded them in their time. this applies to modern music as well but becuase of its link to popular culture, what we refer to as the equivalent to old artistic masters are just bands that were immensely popular in the past. am i out of my gourd with this one folks? are there bands that were misunderstood in their own time but incredibly popular now? anyway, as far as musical evolution is concerned, i'm sure we can all see it's complextiy in the creation of IDM. it's much more that just a reaction to happy hardcore or somthing. as far as your language is concerned, not having a firm grasp of what you're saying (be it slang or latin) can only weaken your ideas. faux maturity is not cool. tomas ChairCrusher wrote:
quoted 7 lines When someone starts attacking your language instead of what you're> When someone starts attacking your language instead of what you're > saying, you know they're just fucking with you and don't have > anything valid to say. > > I'm more than willing to learn from you if you have something useful > to say, but your rebuttal of my original post was even more vague > and general than my post, and the tone of it disagreed with me. Maybe