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Re: (idm) OT EMINEM DEBATE RAGES ON

3 messages · 3 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
1999-07-27 17:00ChairCrusher (idm) OT EMINEM DEBATE RAGES ON
└─ 1999-07-27 17:30wells Re: (idm) OT EMINEM DEBATE RAGES ON
1999-07-27 17:22david turgeon Re: (idm) OT EMINEM DEBATE RAGES ON
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1999-07-27 17:00ChairCrusherOn Tue, 27 Jul 1999, wells wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, mtheulthetant wrote: > > > oh yea
From:
ChairCrusher
To:
iduhntuhbelluhbiguhbent duhbance muhbusuhbic
Date:
Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:00:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
(idm) OT EMINEM DEBATE RAGES ON
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.990727115954.10368B-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, wells wrote:
quoted 11 lines On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, mtheulthetant wrote:> On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, mtheulthetant wrote: > > > oh yeah, i guess poverty and drug use are just stupid problems and no one > > wants to talk about these. Kent was right, people are scared to admit to > > that these things are a product of our society. how often do you talk to > > people who say 'oh yeah my mom's a pothead'? you think they think it's > > stupid that their mom is a pothead? no. they're scared to admit it. > > > > are you being serious? i can't tell. you are trying to tell me that eminem > speaks seriously about issues such as poverty and drug use, right?
Well, without getting into how to define 'serious' I'd say that what he does is portray a character whose action, speech and behavior is true to life. The fact that this character slim shady rings true raises the question of what does it mean that there are people like this in society? Why doesn't slim shady give a fuck? That is a serious question.
quoted 2 lines you're actually proposing that? give me a break. he's making the mockery> you're actually proposing that? give me a break. he's making the mockery > of such issues, not me.
No. He doesn't make a mockery of those subjects, he just gives voice to what domestic abusers, or drug abusers would say IF THEY WERE BEING COMPLETELY HONEST WITH THEMSELVES AND OTHERS. To do so with humor only increases the impact.
quoted 1 line he's a joke, his music is a (bad) joke> he's a joke, his music is a (bad) joke
Nah, or rather it's a joke you don't get.
quoted 1 line whatever "skills" he has are completely lost on me.> whatever "skills" he has are completely lost on me.
Evidentally!
quoted 1 line i may not be too familiar with his music,> i may not be too familiar with his music,
Evidentally! How can you make such a blanket dismissal of an artist when all you've seen is a couple of videos on MTV?
quoted 1 line but let me assure you, he's not saying _anything_ important.> but let me assure you, he's not saying _anything_ important.
In other words you aren't familiar with his music but you feel completely comfortable making authoritative statements about it. I hate to be the one to school you, but you're just digging yourself in deeper here. kent williams -- kent@avalon.net
1999-07-27 17:30wellsOn Tue, 27 Jul 1999, ChairCrusher wrote: > Well, without getting into how to define 'serio
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wells
To:
ChairCrusher
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iduhntuhbelluhbiguhbent duhbance muhbusuhbic
Date:
Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:30:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) OT EMINEM DEBATE RAGES ON
Reply to:
(idm) OT EMINEM DEBATE RAGES ON
permalink · <Pine.A41.4.03.9907271322340.131184-100000@titan.vcu.edu>
On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, ChairCrusher wrote:
quoted 6 lines Well, without getting into how to define 'serious' I'd say that what> Well, without getting into how to define 'serious' I'd say that what > he does is portray a character whose action, speech and behavior is > true to life. The fact that this character slim shady rings true raises > the question of what does it mean that there are people like this > in society? Why doesn't slim shady give a fuck? That is a serious > question.
This "question" would perhaps be important if even a slightly significant percentage (say, 1%) of his audience understood it. Point is, they don't. MTV is not pushing his videos and music ad nauseum to promote enlightenment and a social consience among today's youth. They're doing it because he is mindless entertainemnt aimed at an audience who is equally, if not more, mindless.
quoted 4 lines No. He doesn't make a mockery of those subjects, he just gives voice to> No. He doesn't make a mockery of those subjects, he just gives voice to > what domestic abusers, or drug abusers would say IF THEY WERE BEING COMPLETELY > HONEST WITH THEMSELVES AND OTHERS. To do so with humor only increases > the impact.
So you're saying that real-life domestic/drug abusers are out there questioning which Spice Girl it is they want to bang, or how much they masturbate, or trying to quantify how much malt liquor they can consume. The fact that he is approaching such critical social questions with humor only helps to make them laughable.
quoted 2 lines Evidentally! How can you make such a blanket dismissal of an artist when> Evidentally! How can you make such a blanket dismissal of an artist when > all you've seen is a couple of videos on MTV?
I've heard the entirety of his Slim Shady LP and I can safely say that the majority of it is "shock humor." Of all the people I know who enjoy him, thankfully a slim few, do so because he's "funny." He's not pushing any intellectual or social envelope. If anything, he's helping to reduce the importance of issues such as poverty, etc to a level where all the upper-middle class white kids in America can laugh at them. - wells, questioning the idm content in this post
1999-07-27 17:22david turgeon> > i may not be too familiar with his music, > Evidentally! How can you make such a blank
From:
david turgeon
To:
ChairCrusher
Cc:
iduhntuhbelluhbiguhbent duhbance muhbusuhbic
Date:
Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:22:21 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) OT EMINEM DEBATE RAGES ON
permalink · <379DEACD.9130C454@evolutiontech.com>
quoted 3 lines i may not be too familiar with his music,> > i may not be too familiar with his music, > Evidentally! How can you make such a blanket dismissal of an artist when > all you've seen is a couple of videos on MTV?
easy. when an artist uses the pop music language, the video they have on mtv is the only thing you should really consider as 'their message'. at least that's the current convention. now, if he _weren't_ speaking the pop music language, but rather, say, the idm language -- then we'd know, by natural assumption, that one song isn't all there is & that there is more to be found on other albums. anyone who disses the push button objects on the strength of one release can rightly be confounded in them having better material on this or that other label. but with pop music? the message is contained in the mtv skit. that's the convention. if you dig deeper, fine, but you're only giving your own interpretation to something which is, by convention, not meant to be understood that way. this might help to understand: if you say 'i'm gone to lunch' in english, it can be interpreted a number of way, but a litteral french translation could only be understood one way -- any other interpretation would be a personal one. it's a language convention akin to the one i'm talking about. obviously i wouldn't condemn nonconventionalism in the interpretation of pop music, but then go the whole nine yard, don't just stop at 'oh but it's irony'. realize that he's part of a humongous machine designed to sell you his music, with loads of contempt for you if you don't, & that thousands of mcs might be able to do his thing much better, if only they were signed. & a minor point, to end -- perhaps pop music in a perfect world _shouldn't_ be the way i described, but then, stop buying into it, because music corporations have no intent to speak another language, unless perhaps they realize that dumb music doesn't sell. -- david