IDM Mailing Archive

Simple enough question really - Has there ever been any copyright problems with anyone using those classic drum'n'bass breaks (Amen, Apache, Reece, etc)? Eddie

:Amen, Apache I think there copyright ran out a long time ago! Doesnt copyright last for only about 20 years and then its a free for all type affair?... I dont want to start a copyright discussion thread, just a yes or no answer would be good. Also another interesting 'Break' snipped.. the guy that actually 'bashed out' the funky drummer for James Brown never got a penny for his playing from Brown!. One of the most sampled breaks ever and he never saw a pennny... nasty! Daniel@yesmate.com

On Thu, 15 Jul 1999 daniell@demon.net wrote:

quoted 6 lines Also another interesting 'Break' snipped.. the guy that actually 'bashed

> > Also another interesting 'Break' snipped.. the guy that actually 'bashed > out' the funky drummer for James Brown never got a penny for his playing > from Brown!. One of the most sampled breaks ever and he never saw a > pennny... nasty! >

You're talking about Clyde Stubblefield. He was a regular member of James Brown's band at the time and appeared on several recording dates with James. He was paid a salary as Brown's drummer, and no doubt was paid for performing in the studio. So he was paid at the time of the recording. Stubblefield was not given composition credits, which was not unusual for a drummer at that time. And Brown no doubt received whatever mechanical royalties for his recordings. So no, Clyde Stubblefield doesn't receive ongoing payment for those recordings, since he has no control over them. But at the time of their recording he was paid the customary amount for the work he did. However, Stubblefield will always be known as THE funky drummer. After leaving Brown's band he played on many records, including a much-coveted drum loop CD of his own. He can also be heard occasionally sitting in with John Thulin on the National Public Radio call-in show, "Whad'Ya Know?" James Brown was not known for paying his band members lavishly -- in fact more than once his bands have quit en masse over money issues. But everyone who played with him got lessons in funk to last them a lifetime. Playing in his band, for funk musicians, is what playing for Miles Davis was for jazz musicians. If you go down the list -- Maceo Parker, Pee Wee Ellis, Bootsy Collins, Bobby Byrd, Clyde S -- James Brown's influence on pop music in the last half of the 20th Century is undeniable. So no -- Clyde Stubblefield was never made rich by the Funky Drummer. On the other hand he has a place in music history for what he's described in interviews as "a few hour's work"

quoted 8 lines :Amen, Apache

>:Amen, Apache > >I think there copyright ran out a long time ago! > >Doesnt copyright last for only about 20 years and then its a free for all >type affair?... I dont want to start a copyright discussion thread, just a >yes or no answer would be good. >

Well, I don't know the answer to that, but I'm almost certain that the amen and so on must be legally considered public domain. Do the people who make sample cds get clearance for such beaks? I doubt it. Eddie

On Thu, Jul 15, 1999 at 10:11:08AM -0400, ! & the Quaternions wrote:

quoted 3 lines The basic thing about copyright is that if you fail to defend it, you lose

> The basic thing about copyright is that if you fail to defend it, you lose > it. Once people started using Amen and not getting sued, it became fair game > for everyone else.

Not to start a copyright thread, but this is incorrect. You're thinking of trademarks, which have to be actively protected or they're lost -- copyrights only go away if they expire or if the copyright holder explicitly assigns the work into the public domain. And they don't expire for a *long* time (getting longer all the time as Big Media lobbies Congress to keep the cash cow moo-ing.) -- Lazlo Nibble - lazlo@studio-nibble.com - http://www.studio-nibble.com --

quoted 7 lines Not to start a copyright thread, but this is incorrect. You're thinking of

> > Not to start a copyright thread, but this is incorrect. You're thinking of > trademarks, which have to be actively protected or they're lost -- copyrights > only go away if they expire or if the copyright holder explicitly assigns the > work into the public domain. And they don't expire for a *long* time (getting > longer all the time as Big Media lobbies Congress to keep the cash cow > moo-ing.)

OK, my bad. It still does strike me as rather bizarre. Suddenly deciding one day to sue the parties which've been ripping you off for years on end. And being allowed to get away with that kind of laziness on your own behalf. Does laches still apply on a case-by-case basis? Or could the Winstons suddenly unfreeze and sue the pants off the entire drum 'n' bass industry?

quoted 4 lines Also another interesting 'Break' snipped.. the guy that actually 'bashed

>Also another interesting 'Break' snipped.. the guy that actually 'bashed >out' the funky drummer for James Brown never got a penny for his playing >from Brown!. One of the most sampled breaks ever and he never saw a >pennny... nasty!

Clyde Stubblefield was Brown's drummer for at least two years (he joined the band in early 1968 and "Funky Drummer" was recorded 69/11/20). If he really "never saw a pennny," wasn't he a fool to stay with the band for as long as he did? I have serious doubts about the veracity of your claim. Unless you can provide documentation, I'll assume it has no merit. C.

This was taken from a copy of 'Wax' about a year back, which had an interview with the man in it. I dont have it where I am living now, but I can dig it out and send documentury proof of my claims. Maybe it ment than he never say a cent of the sample royalties that brown was given for the break rather than the initial recording money???...

quoted 4 lines Also another interesting 'Break' snipped.. the guy that actually 'bashed

>Also another interesting 'Break' snipped.. the guy that actually 'bashed >out' the funky drummer for James Brown never got a penny for his playing >from Brown!. One of the most sampled breaks ever and he never saw a >pennny... nasty!

Clyde Stubblefield was Brown's drummer for at least two years (he joined the band in early 1968 and "Funky Drummer" was recorded 69/11/20). If he really "never saw a pennny," wasn't he a fool to stay with the band for as long as he did? I have serious doubts about the veracity of your claim. Unless you can provide documentation, I'll assume it has no merit. C.

I remember reading once in some German techno mag where the drummer who supplied the PCM samples of the hihats on the TR-909 was interviewed. Talk about earning your place in music history for a few hours work! Tom