IDM Mailing Archive

electro was the precursor of hip-hop, not a variant. dr dre made surgery before he made straight outta compton. ----Original Message---- Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 19:23:01 -0700 From: Moonlight <roesch@augsburg.edu> Subject: Re: (idm) Helen. Obviously, Autechre has a bit of hip-hop influence. Hip-hop is the current pop music, everything has either incorporated it in some sense, or entirely rejected it. Also, as hip-hop was the first successful electronically created music, all current electronicall created music (as almost all "IDM" short of Rotted One Note is) has that as influence. I'm just thinking here of all my CDs that might vaguely be "IDM" hiphop is more prevalent than dub and house influences. Jungle and Electro are variant on hiphop. Go from there. Hiphop permeates all modern sound in some form or another. Autechre may bury thier influence, but it's still there.

quoted 1 line Moonlight <roesch@augsburg.edu>:

>Moonlight <roesch@augsburg.edu>:

quoted 1 line Also, as hip-hop was the first successful electronically created music,

>Also, as hip-hop was the first successful electronically created music,

What about those Bavarian gents?

quoted 2 lines all

>all >current electronicall created music ...has that as influence.

What of straight swingless techno? Ambient? Beatless isolationism? 3

this subject can be fuzzed out pretty far afield, but sugarhill gang and treacherous three and cohorts were in full force (ar ar) well before planet rock came out. though these are widely considered to be rapping without hip-hop - they used disco grooves and leblanc/wimbish studio jams - flash's "on the wheels of steel" followed some time after, and "planet rock" generally signals the birth of both hip-hop and electro along the current of rap. they are coterminous. eric On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Joanisse, Robert wrote:

quoted 2 lines electro was the precursor of hip-hop, not a variant. dr dre made surgery

>electro was the precursor of hip-hop, not a variant. dr dre made surgery >before he made straight outta compton.

evenin' all. eric, nice discussion on electro, hip hop and chronology. thanks for clearing up some debates. now, to start another: who can offer me a "canonical" electro album to take a listen to so i can nail down for myself what is electro and what is instead early hip hop ish? suggestions along the lines of "first electro album proper", "best compilation of tip top electro singles" or "peak album of electro in the day" (not revivalist) welcomed. reasoned debate allowed, name calling and attitude not alllowed. :) bonus round: who in the current IDM scene shows the most electro spirit, or influence, or what have you, so i can follow up my archaeology with some modern study. r o b np: digital underground "sex packets"

quoted 8 lines eric

> > eric > > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Joanisse, Robert wrote: > > >electro was the precursor of hip-hop, not a variant. dr dre made surgery > >before he made straight outta compton. >

Yeah, I have that 1st Sugarhill rap lp from '79 and it says it is w/the full crew who later became the On-U Sound house band (Wimbish, le Blanc, you can even see Wimbish (I guess) on the inside photo) My related question is: I just got this 12" of "2 Fly" produced by Grand.Flash and on the Out____ Music Co____ (I forget, but eerily similar to "Outward Music Company"). ...So, does anyone know who 2-Fly is? It is from '81-'82 I think... sorry for the spotty memory... On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, eric hill wrote:

quoted 7 lines this subject can be fuzzed out pretty far afield, but sugarhill gang and

> this subject can be fuzzed out pretty far afield, but sugarhill gang and > treacherous three and cohorts were in full force (ar ar) well before > planet rock came out. though these are widely considered to be rapping > without hip-hop - they used disco grooves and leblanc/wimbish studio jams > - flash's "on the wheels of steel" followed some time after, and "planet > rock" generally signals the birth of both hip-hop and electro along the > current of rap. they are coterminous.

----------- Christalmighty,what the heck does 'coterminous' mean, Eric? You're sirtainly verbicious with wordage, Eric... learn that one in one of those red Netware books or was it some O'Reilly pinup centerfold chart? Solanoyd

quoted 7 lines eric

> eric > > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Joanisse, Robert wrote: > > >electro was the precursor of hip-hop, not a variant. dr dre made surgery > >before he made straight outta compton. >

So, like, does anyone really know if that rapper's delight bassline was copied by Queen for "another one bites the dust" or was it somehow the other way around?... seems like Sugarhill was one year previous to the queen track. enquiring minds (mine) want to know (for a long time)... solenoid On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, eric hill wrote:

quoted 15 lines this subject can be fuzzed out pretty far afield, but sugarhill gang and

> this subject can be fuzzed out pretty far afield, but sugarhill gang and > treacherous three and cohorts were in full force (ar ar) well before > planet rock came out. though these are widely considered to be rapping > without hip-hop - they used disco grooves and leblanc/wimbish studio jams > - flash's "on the wheels of steel" followed some time after, and "planet > rock" generally signals the birth of both hip-hop and electro along the > current of rap. they are coterminous. > > eric > > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Joanisse, Robert wrote: > > >electro was the precursor of hip-hop, not a variant. dr dre made surgery > >before he made straight outta compton. >

sun rob and his arkestra wrote:

quoted 4 lines suggestions along the lines of "first electro album proper", "best

> suggestions along the lines of "first electro album proper", "best > compilation of tip top electro singles" or "peak album of electro in the > day" (not revivalist) welcomed. reasoned debate allowed, name calling and > attitude not alllowed. :)

Kraftwerk 'computer world'. Both the mastercuts and streetsounds 'best of' are tops. Plus you can still find singles like 'planet rock', 'jam on it', 'clear', etc, new or in used bins all over.

quoted 3 lines bonus round: who in the current IDM scene shows the most electro spirit,

> bonus round: who in the current IDM scene shows the most electro spirit, > or influence, or what have you, so i can follow up my archaeology with > some modern study.

Datathief. Bad as fuck. Soul Oddity. Bubble gum electro. Dmx crew. On the debbie deb/trinere tip, but AOK. Bochum Welt. Heavier on the distortion but still sweetmeat. Jedi Knights/Global Communication. Nuff said. brockout.

On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Brock Suter wrote:

quoted 11 lines sun rob and his arkestra wrote:

> > sun rob and his arkestra wrote: > > > suggestions along the lines of "first electro album proper", "best > > compilation of tip top electro singles" or "peak album of electro in the > > day" (not revivalist) welcomed. reasoned debate allowed, name calling and > > attitude not alllowed. :) > > Kraftwerk 'computer world'. Both the mastercuts and streetsounds 'best > of' are tops. Plus you can still find singles like 'planet rock', 'jam > on it', 'clear', etc, new or in used bins all over.

"Computer world" all the way. "Jam on IT" by Newcleus has just gotten a Tommy Boy retro-rerelease with a remix and I've seen "planet rock" re-released and in a shop this month. Seek out Herbie Hancock's "RockIt" 12" or Future Shock LP from '83 for another angle of electro.

quoted 3 lines bonus round: who in the current IDM scene shows the most electro spirit,

> > bonus round: who in the current IDM scene shows the most electro spirit, > > or influence, or what have you, so i can follow up my archaeology with > > some modern study.

Ectomorph (minimal, detroit-edged) Le Car (minimal primitive drum-machine edged, plus new wave decor) Voice Stealer / Carl Finlow projects (with new wave influence) Freddy Fresh (socket label, 2-3 years ago) Elektroids (Warp '95) Dynamix II(MIami techno-bassy rereleases and new EP's the last few years) Serotonin label (new styles, not retro) Phoenecia (syncopated, idm-ish, but essentially electro, aka soul oddity) Drexciya Underground REsistance Aux 88 Solenoid (heh heh, self PR)

quoted 23 lines Datathief.

> > Datathief. > > Bad as fuck. > > Soul Oddity. > > Bubble gum electro. > > Dmx crew. > > On the debbie deb/trinere tip, but AOK. > > Bochum Welt. > > Heavier on the distortion but still sweetmeat. > > Jedi Knights/Global Communication. > > Nuff said. > > brockout. >

quoted 4 lines eric, nice discussion on electro, hip hop and chronology. thanks for

>eric, nice discussion on electro, hip hop and chronology. thanks for >clearing up some debates. now, to start another: who can offer me a >"canonical" electro album to take a listen to so i can nail down for >myself what is electro and what is instead early hip hop ish?

For a decent set of electro comps that you can even get at BestBuy, try the "Street Jams, Electric Funk" series. There are 3 or 4 volumes of old school Electro from Afrika Bambaataa, Newcleus, Egyptian Lover etc.. ernie Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-1156 Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems Fort Worth, Texas

: "Computer world" all the way. "Jam on IT" by Newcleus has just gotten a : Tommy Boy retro-rerelease with a remix and I've seen "planet rock" : re-released and in a shop this month. Seek out Herbie Hancock's "RockIt" : 12" or Future Shock LP from '83 for another angle of electro. newcleus greatest hits is pretty cheap. assuming that the tommy boy release will be full price whatever format you get it so go with the rhino best of... its swell. hancock's future shock is the shit too. anyone recommend any other hancock in this vein? this is about all i have...

On Sat, 3 Jul 1999, sfwd wrote:

quoted 8 lines : "Computer world" all the way. "Jam on IT" by Newcleus has just gotte

> : "Computer world" all the way. "Jam on IT" by Newcleus has just gotten a > : Tommy Boy retro-rerelease with a remix and I've seen "planet rock" > : re-released and in a shop this month. Seek out Herbie Hancock's "RockIt" > : 12" or Future Shock LP from '83 for another angle of electro. > > newcleus greatest hits is pretty cheap. assuming that the tommy boy > release will be full price whatever format you get it so go with the > rhino best of... its swell.

Oh, I was talking vinyl, I forget about cds... yeah those compilations would totally cover this I suppose. I saw that the library I work at has got a Grandmaster Flash cd comp that looked like it had every essential track. You could probably get Rockit on a compilation also.

quoted 2 lines hancock's future shock is the shit too. anyone recommend any other hancock

> hancock's future shock is the shit too. anyone recommend any other hancock > in this vein? this is about all i have...

In terms of vinyl, the "metal Beat" and "chamleon/megamix" 12"s are pretty good, but I found that the rest of HH's releases from that period (81-83) is very unlike Rockit/future Shock. You have to go back a few more years to his funky stuff before finding some fun "Butterfly", "Watermelon Man",etc. Another reasonable vinyl purchase might be Twilight 22's "Electric Kingdom". I've found several formats, and of the four mixes I recommend the "Dub" and "Kingdom" versions. also, Junior Velasquez's other productions seem promisingly electro-ish...a group called Lex did a dub version of a track ("Two Weeks.."??) that has a cool 3 min intro. All around '82. Solenoid

Sugarhill Gang's "Rapper's Delight" got it's music from Chic's "Good Times." In fact, nowadays when you see the track on compilations, it's actually credited to Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers (Chic): they probably sued Sugarhill and some (if not all) royalaties for the song. From this same period, I'd recommend the True School compilations (all three volumes), Afrika Bambaataa's Death Mix and the numerous Rhino compilations. Forced Exposure has the Enjoy compilations as expensive (but worth it) Japanese imports. Best, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect