IDM Mailing Archive

Most of you make me feel all warm and fuzzy, and I appreciate <any> honest commentary. *Not* unsubscribing from this "piece of shit list 4eva." However, it is odd to read posts from people who dissect your "baby," so I can see how our ae chums got ruffled. I miss their posts about gamelans. I do feel a need to respond to these comments from Tom Millar: << I like parts of this record. The problem lies in the fact that these parts are all in different songs in different places.>> Right, well, I had to put them all in different places. If I put them all in the same song, then nobody would listen to the rest of the disc. It's like an Easter Egg hunt. << Song structure is always a problem for sampladelica, I guess.>> Why is this true? Do we sampladelicans not obey the verse/chorus/verse convention? I don't think this is what you mean, since this is the IDM list. Does "song structure" even exist for IDM? And I, for one, am OK with the traditional notions of song structure being re-examined. <<Of course it's intense mental effort to try and write this review in an honest fashion because a) dude gave everybody free copies b) I've been there.>> Where have you been? Where are you now? Not caustic...just curious...happy-go-lucky...occasional dark moments. - Fred Church bigkumquat@aol.com dude is still giving everybody free copies...see http://www.thelocus.com/kumquat for details and mp3's np: wobbly - anything (ovenguard)

quoted 1 line I can see how our ae chums got ruffled. I miss their posts about gamelans.

>I can see how our ae chums got ruffled. I miss their posts about gamelans.

Don't go there. :)

quoted 1 line If I put them all in the same song, then nobody would listen to the rest

>If I put them all in the same song, then nobody would listen to the rest

of >the disc. Yeah, but then you'd have one killer single. And one killer single with no other releases would seem very mysterious and make lotsa IDMers conjecture about who you really are (AFX?, not that you sound like him). Maybe you could release that on 12", then send some half-assed old tracks, get them presed and watch everyone buy them like PBO or something. Not that you're that kind of a guy. Not that i've ever heard PBO, but that's the opinions of at least the vocal part of the list. I'm rambling, will stop.

quoted 1 line << Song structure is always a problem for sampladelica, I guess.>>

><< Song structure is always a problem for sampladelica, I guess.>>

I agree with Fred here. What? Song structure has never been important to electronic musicians. Look at AFX's RDJ album and Come To Daddy. Some have structure, really nicely. Some don't and it doesn't make a difference. Fred's tracks kindof remind me of a mixtape. Starting somewhere and going somewhere else. Not ending like it started, but travelling, moving, changing. And flowing. Yet it took me a few listens before i even noticed that at least several songs end very differently than they begin. So does that add or detract from the music? For one thing, i think that it keeps music from getting repetitive (Imagine what Fatboy Slim could do if he trimmed "You've come..." down into a 15-20 minute megamix.) Sure, there are parts that i wish were repeated more, cos i really like them. Listening to it, i think "bring back that one part" and it doesn't and i don't mind too much.

quoted 1 line Not caustic...

>Not caustic...

Nor me either. _________________________________ Adam Roesch / roesch@augsburg.edu University of Idaho / Moscow / ID / USA Visit my Fila Brazillia/Pork Recordings fan site: http://dogbert.augsburg.edu/~roesch/pork/ "Because success needs killing" TRICKY

quoted 3 lines Right, well, I had to put them all in different places. If I put them all in

> Right, well, I had to put them all in different places. If I put them all in > the same song, then nobody would listen to the rest of the disc. It's like > an Easter Egg hunt.

If you have good parts, go ahead and put them all together. Unless they got good purely by accident, you will have more good parts. Just condense & compile until it's all good. If you KNOW yourself that some parts of a track are weaker than others, then you owe it to yourself and your listeners to replace them or cut them out. I think that's the hardest thing to learn, making music, and it's probably why so many people stick to endless vamps for seven minutes... e.g. me.

quoted 4 lines Why is this true? Do we sampladelicans not obey the verse/chorus/verse

> Why is this true? Do we sampladelicans not obey the verse/chorus/verse > convention? I don't think this is what you mean, since this is the IDM list. > Does "song structure" even exist for IDM? And I, for one, am OK with the > traditional notions of song structure being re-examined.

When you're dealing with lots of long phrases it's difficult to arrange a song so that they flow in and out of each other. When I listen to your stuff, it sounds a lot like a DJ doing fast cuts back and forth between records. If I was into the whole battle DJ thing I would probably like it more, but I'm not, so maybe my comments aren't really on the mark. I don't mean verse/chorus//bridge/chorus type stuff at all, just smooth arranging between sections. Quick cuts work for building tension (see the art of the breakdown) but not all the time, that's all I'm really bitching about. Song structure certainly exists for IDM. It usually goes MIDI Channel One/MIDI Channels One & Two/MIDI Channels One & Two & Three/MIDI Channels One & Two & Three & Four/and so on.

quoted 1 line Where have you been? Where are you now?

> Where have you been? Where are you now?

I've sent out stuff for free to get feedback before (on the 313 list). So I know how it feels to get criticized afterwards. You feel like, bitch, I gave you a free record, shut up. But in the end I usually end up agreeing with the critics more than I do with the polite folks. Or that could just be a problem with my self-esteem. Now I'm on Mad Monkey Records (thanks again Daniel) and I couldn't be happier, really. BTW, not to self-promote any more than necessary, but everybody should get that comp. Just for the cover photo of my uncle and the tracks by Lesser and Saundart. If you want I'll remix your stuff first chance I get and we can see what happens. Thanks for letting me clarify my statements. Tom

quoted 4 lines If I put them all in the same song, then nobody would listen

>>If I put them all in the same song, then nobody would listen >>to the rest of the disc. > >Yeah, but then you'd have one killer single.

after which somebody thinks to themselves, "hey, he cut out all the good parts!" eric

quoted 4 lines Now I'm on Mad Monkey Records (thanks again Daniel) and I couldn't be

> Now I'm on Mad Monkey Records (thanks again Daniel) and I couldn't be > happier, really. BTW, not to self-promote any more than necessary, but > everybody should get that comp. Just for the cover photo of my uncle and > the tracks by Lesser and Saundart.

Rest of world: you're a monkey's uncle IDM: your uncle's a monkey

First off, I want to say "thanks" to both Fred and Tom (again) as I have the Kumquat as of yesterday and have had a cass. of Digestive Tracks for prolly 1 1/2 years anyway. Looking at them both, I think Tom hit it right in his last post - they're coming from (and going to) different places. Their styles are quite discrete. Different music for different moods is the way I see it. Tom's material is much more spare and one of my favorite songs on the tape had a Basic Channel vibe. Tom's is more into building a long groove and exploring its possibilities. My fave track of his (which is on the MM comp) is a good example of this. Fred's is busier and does a lot more sampling/u-turns/shifting gears. It also has a very different and broad appeal to it which would prolly grant it a listen to a wider audience. It seemed like a lot of fun to make and is very upbeat. Pieces of it reminded me of old Martini Ranch stuff crossed with "What's That Noise" period CC w/o the scratch-hop, but it's informed by a different era. It does go through a lot of changes at a pretty fast pace, but I like the record quite a bit and need to play it some more. As I type this, I feel the need to pulll out that cdr I made from Tom's tape (love that Sonic Foundy de-hissing prog!) and give that a spin. Personally, now - as I'm drinking coffee and getting into my day off - is the right time for me to spin what I have from Tom. Later on in the day when I'm moving around the hose, doing this and that I'll be more ready for Kumquat. Perhaps that's just today's mood. Maybe I'm a bit different in that I listen to many types of music. If you've ever noticed my fs lists, you get some indication of that. I go on jags wherein I prefer strictly minimal or dark ambient or Detroit or deep house or IDM, but I can always "hear" something I like, whether it's as poppy as the Pet Shop Boys or as whacked as Stock, Hausen & Walkman. Also, Tom is spot on with the Mad Monkey recommendation. There are so many fine things happening lately with listmembers doing music...I want to start listing them but I know I'll forget and leave someone out. I told my wife the other day that I like a lot of the stuff I've been getting HERE better than what I buy elsewhere. That isn't just a remark about my tastes shifting, either - it has more to do with the fact that the quality of listy output is rising noticeably. I appreciate it greatly. You know who you are. Thank you one and all. And Tom - put something else out (I'll BUY it). jeff -- jeff "10,000 people all screaming the same thing at the same time are wrong, even if they're right." dancing/about/architecture "...with wandering steps and slow..." ICQ904008

quoted 6 lines Also, Tom is spot on with the Mad Monkey recommendation. There are so many fine

> Also, Tom is spot on with the Mad Monkey recommendation. There are so many fine > things happening lately with listmembers doing music...I want to start listing them > but I know I'll forget and leave someone out. I told my wife the other day that I > like a lot of the stuff I've been getting HERE better than what I buy elsewhere. That > isn't just a remark about my tastes shifting, either - it has more to do with the > fact that the quality of listy output is rising noticeably

I will definitely second that, big time. The mad monkey comp is quite intense, covers an amazing spectrum of material, and comes from a number of list members. heck, even the disc track is fun/interesting/musical. I'm finding that with the plethora of new list-based stuff out there (toshoklabs, mmR, kumquat right now) taking up my player, I haven't been buying _anything_ IDM outside. too much to listen to! which makes me think that some really smart big-name group should commission a disc of remixes from y'all list playas. guaranteed audience of at least 1000! btw I love the kumquat record. "cut out the foolishness, and get back in the house!" I didn't think anybody did fun voice sampling like this anymore without getting all preachy about it, or burying it under superheavy industrial guitars. kumquat's stuff reminds me more of old PWEI or EBN, etc etc. I'll shut up now. Keep on keepin' on, listees making music, y'all rock. rob

quoted 3 lines Song structure certainly exists for IDM.

> Song structure certainly exists for IDM. > It usually goes MIDI Channel One/MIDI Channels One & Two/MIDI Channels > One & Two & Three/MIDI Channels One & Two & Three & Four/and so on.

nice way of putting it. :) one thing i really like lately is sonic foundry acid (not that it's anything new, but i just recently started playing with it.) the whole song structure becomes entirely visual & makes complete & instantaneous sense. you feel like you're assembling a piece of abstract art. & (in relation to your comments regarding how hard it is to make music) it lets you control the flow of your music quite precisely. i love it. (then again, it doesn't have any use for live performance or improvisation. you have to record your samples yourself. which is a point in favor of realtime or semi-realtime software (e.g. rebirth, hammerhead, fruity loops to a point), the problem with them being that they're usually too limited for building whole songs with just one piece of software.) (god knows why i just went on that particular tangent.) i should probably post my thoughts regarding the kumquat cd... i enjoyed it but i need to listen to it more before i can actually verbosely review it. but i found it surprisingly enjoyable, starting from the goofy artwork up to the actual music. i also have some more new stuff i want to review anyhow. give me a few days... was that message pointless or what? -- david turgeon at http://www.notype.com

quoted 8 lines i should probably post my thoughts regarding the kumquat cd... i

> i should probably post my thoughts regarding the kumquat cd... i > enjoyed it but i need to listen to it more before i can actually > verbosely review it. but i found it surprisingly enjoyable, starting > from the goofy artwork up to the actual music. > > i also have some more new stuff i want to review anyhow. give me a few days... > > was that message pointless or what?

To add to the pointlessness... all the people expecting me to review your releases, please be patient. I will, trust me. I just need time. Except for the Flanger record, I've listened to it enough. In other news, final plug for the Fluoroscopic Kid show: Austin, Monday the 5th, Flamingo Cantina dunno how much cover is, but it should be fairly cheap. There will also be a drumnbass DJ if you like that too or better or whatever. We will have records for sale, I'll be briniging them down. Also, so everyone knows who I am, I'm the guy wearing fluorescent orange Chucks. Trust me, you'll notice. And I'll probably wear my "Seeking Abuse" shirt. (It's a zine, not anything kinky.)

Forgot to add major bonus points for the mailers on the Kumquat. Oooooh, pretty! (seriously, those must have cost a few bob. Nice job). Acid IS fun. I tend to like the SF stuff. A good "netfriend" of mine is a developer for the Acid project. jeff

quoted 5 lines i should probably post my thoughts regarding the kumquat cd... i

> i should probably post my thoughts regarding the kumquat cd... i > enjoyed it but i need to listen to it more before i can actually > verbosely review it. but i found it surprisingly enjoyable, starting > from the goofy artwork up to the actual music. >

-- jeff "10,000 people all screaming the same thing at the same time are wrong, even if they're right." dancing/about/architecture "...with wandering steps and slow..." ICQ904008

Lauren Olson wrote:

quoted 3 lines BTW, what ever happened to EBN?

> BTW, what ever happened to EBN? > > Lauren

I heard they got fucked up and down with a MAC-10. no, actually, they're still working the video cut-up thing to death last I heard. I think I read something about them working in parallel with folks like Coldcut, doing the multimedia chop suey act. Since Jack Dangers (Meat Beat Manifesto) apparently hasn't collaborated with them again, though, there's probably not another album in the future. They don't seem like the types to repeat past projects like that anyway- probably their next release would be in the form of a DVD video album or something.