IDM Mailing Archive

i picked up Dr.Dooom out of curiousity and since Dr.Octagon was so damn good. i was very disappointed. an MC can do nothing to redeem a song if the production is shit. Dan The Automator was the shit on the Dr.Octagon album (yet his solo stuff is quite a dissappointment to me as well) but whomever produced Dr.Dooom (appearantly "the diesel truckers") lacks any creativity. hiphop these days is so goddam weak it makes me cringe. current trends of using dancehall rhythms and fast 808s, despite seeming promising, are getting as tired as those fucking fish-eye lenses everyone uses in their videos. and what's with everyone's futuristic persona all of a sudden? which brings me to bobby digital. i'm still shocked that autechre can drop a name like RZA in reference to talented producers. he may have his moments, but overall, his production is as weak as anyone elses. tomas ps. all above statements are true when you disregard the talent of the MoWax crew, The Roots, Prince Paul (though i haven't had a chance to hear his new album yet), and Roots Manuva (who, by the way, is the best MC to come around in a long, long while). np: Yabby U - King Tubby's Prophecy of Dub

On Mon, 24 May 1999, Tomas Jirku wrote:

quoted 3 lines album (yet his solo stuff is quite a dissappointment to me as well) but

> album (yet his solo stuff is quite a dissappointment to me as well) but > whomever produced Dr.Dooom (appearantly "the diesel truckers") lacks any > creativity.

that's unfortunate. i had heard that kut masta kurt (who produced sex style and some of dr. octagon) and kool keith himself were the production crew...but maybe that was confusing it with keith's other upcoming album, 'black elvis.' i can still appreciate decent mc'ing over weak beats, though, and kool keith is miles and miles ahead of your average mc (funny article in the new URB-- kind of a fictional day-in-the-life of keith vs generic mc). still, the production is what made dr octo listenable over and over again. i'll have to check dr dooom for myself.

quoted 4 lines hiphop these days is so goddam weak it makes me cringe. current trends

> hiphop these days is so goddam weak it makes me cringe. current trends > of using dancehall rhythms and fast 808s, despite seeming promising, are > getting as tired as those fucking fish-eye lenses everyone uses in their > videos.

plus suddenly the formula of 4-4 sample, double-time rap over it, and add random jungle-ish beats is getting stale too. you can probably blame that on no limit.

quoted 1 line and what's with everyone's futuristic persona all of a sudden?

> and what's with everyone's futuristic persona all of a sudden?

i think it's a bite off wu-tang (who have always been kinda futuristic) and keith...maybe givin' it up a little to george clinton's multiple personas and forms of p-funk. personally, i'll take an average "space persona" video any day over "i'm gonna sit on this here rented rolls royce and look like i'm angry."

quoted 3 lines which brings me to bobby digital. i'm still shocked that autechre can

> which brings me to bobby digital. i'm still shocked that autechre can > drop a name like RZA in reference to talented producers. he may have his > moments, but overall, his production is as weak as anyone elses.

RZA's kinda fallen off, but he still brought a whole new style to hip hop production that really hasn't been correctly copied yet, even by his disciples. "enter the wu tang" still blows me away.

quoted 4 lines ps. all above statements are true when you disregard the talent of the

> ps. all above statements are true when you disregard the talent of the > MoWax crew, The Roots, Prince Paul (though i haven't had a chance to > hear his new album yet), and Roots Manuva (who, by the way, is the best > MC to come around in a long, long while).

absolutely. the roots and prince paul albums alone mean it's a good year for hip hop. and honestly, how often is there a significant batch of groups REALLY holding it down (like the roots/black star/prince paul kids now, like the native tongues a while back) and everything else is good? honestly, never. the more likely situation is that most everything is bad and one good mc or group is leading the pack (biggie, public enemy, run-dmc, take your pick). in other words, we're actually in something of a hip hop golden age! whoops...this could use some idm content...anybody ever taken a good look at the artwork on autechre's chiastic slide? tilt it back and forth in strong light and there's little drafting crosses and big old compact disc logo sort of hidden in there. r o b

On 24 May 99, Tomas Jirku wrote

quoted 1 line since Dr.Octagon was so damn good.

> since Dr.Octagon was so damn good.

Just wondering which Dr Octagon you mean? I've got Instrumentalyst which I do enjoy, but I'm not into any of his vocal stuff - or should I be?

quoted 2 lines which brings me to bobby digital. i'm still shocked that

> which brings me to bobby digital. i'm still shocked that > autechre can drop a name like RZA in reference to talented producers.

Where did Ae do that? Sheesh!! I got a promo CD-5 of NYC Everything & Do You Hear The Bells and ***imo*** it's ghastly. PS : Feb's Sound on Sound has a Klaus Schulze interview/article which is pretty interesting. I * *** you can also mail me at <lime909@hotmail.com> ***

On Mon, 24 May 1999, Irene McC wrote:

quoted 5 lines which brings me to bobby digital. i'm still shocked that

> > which brings me to bobby digital. i'm still shocked that > > autechre can drop a name like RZA in reference to talented producers. > > Where did Ae do that? Sheesh!! I got a promo CD-5 of NYC > Everything & Do You Hear The Bells and ***imo*** it's ghastly.

"NYC Everything" is on the RZA as Bobby Digital CD, while "Do You Hear the Bells" is just an ok freestyle. (It's also the extra track for the Japanese version.) I liked the Bobby Digital disc a lot -- musically, it was the new twist I'd been waiting for from the Wu -- but it didn't go over well even with other Wu Tang fans. At some point "The Cure" will show up -- RZA's proper solo CD. --Mark __ Burning Rome : SENSELESS CD on Mindfield Records MindCD03 Cathartium 14 > Distributed by Dutch East India Trading, Com Four, and Carrot Top < < http://www.xnet.com/~mkolmar/BurningRome > < MP3 & RealAudio tracks >

quoted 6 lines hiphop these days is so goddam weak it makes me cringe. current trends

>hiphop these days is so goddam weak it makes me cringe. current trends >of using dancehall rhythms and fast 808s, despite seeming promising, >are >getting as tired as those fucking fish-eye lenses everyone uses in >their >videos.

if youre looking for more creative and innovative hip hop you should check out mystik journeymen, blackalicious, living legends, grouch, murs, planet asia, and bizarro. there was another guy out of new york that is doing really abstract and minimal sounding hip hop. i think his name is semantics or something like that... i cant remember but its like overly distorted bass, a snare drum and his mc-ing. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Hip-Hop is always in a continual process of reinvention. There are loads of very good releases that happen on the margins of the 80's-samplin Lexus thug mainstream. For one thing, you need to check your local scene -- nearly everywhere has some locals struggling to make a splash, and in my opinion Hip Hop is like beer -- there's no substitute for drinking a local brew while it's fresh; fuck the packaging. Check, if you're interested: Divine Styler "Word Power 2" Divine Styler always maintains a stance 90 degrees out of phase with the mainstream, and this release offers up some of the best production on any record, along with the Styler's introspective rhymes centered around his pilgrimage to Mecca. Dr. Dooom -- Kool Keith reinvents himself again with a funny, profane stroll through the twisted corridors of his mind. Look also for the instrumental version on vinyl. The Roots -- The Roots ALWAYS deliver, straight up. ?uestlove's live drumming, Razell's beatboxing, and tight, conscious rhymes that get past glocks and hos. They may be on Geffen records, but there isn't a hip hop record out there with more genuine feeling. All Natural "No Additives" These guys are Chicagos smoothy-blending health food B-Boys. If you can track it down (http://www.gramaphonerecords.com has it) you get the bonus booklet of cartoons, lyrics, and intellectual ramblings. The track "you're lyin" pops the balloon of the MTV thugs. Company Flow "Funcrusher Plus" Rhymes so sick they'll make you queasy. Rawkus Records may be marketing it's more-apparent-than-real underground status, but Company Flow is the real deal -- "I drop so much shit my anus needs an icepack." DJ Earl-E "Breakadon" One of our Iowa City hometown heros. This album is about 1/2 instrumental and 1/2 work with MC's. On the minimal production tip -- many tracks made with a 4 track and a Gemini DJ mixer for a sampler -- Earl-E specializes in the kind of blunted 5 AM loopiness that is the hip-hop equivalent of Chain Reaction. Perhaps due to laid back promotion this one might be hard to find outside of iowa city, but interested parties should contact Vince (junglist@ia.net) at the Record Collector about ordering. And yes I'm biased -- my name is on the CD for production and mastering... Tack Fu Productions "Yen and Slang" -- Leave it to my boy Tim Tack to find the funk in Jackie Gleason and Transylvanian lute music. This can be had direct from http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5519/ -- the new album set to drop this summer will shock and amaze. And yes, I'm biased -- I've worked on about half the tracks in some capacity. http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5519/ kent williams -- kent@avalon.net ICQ:33001909 On Mon, 24 May 1999, matthew d salcido wrote:

quoted 20 lines hiphop these days is so goddam weak it makes me cringe. current trends

> >hiphop these days is so goddam weak it makes me cringe. current trends > >of using dancehall rhythms and fast 808s, despite seeming promising, > >are > >getting as tired as those fucking fish-eye lenses everyone uses in > >their > >videos. > > if youre looking for more creative and innovative hip hop you should > check out mystik journeymen, blackalicious, living legends, grouch, murs, > planet asia, and bizarro. there was another guy out of new york that is > doing really abstract and minimal sounding hip hop. i think his name is > semantics or something like that... i cant remember but its like overly > distorted bass, a snare drum and his mc-ing. > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >

im not that into hip-hop to really have a great knowledge of underground mc's. but being on the west coast ive always njoi'd hieroglyphics crew. last time i checked out there web site, they were selling undistrubuted tapes of thiers... just for your info. hierglyphics including del the funkee homo. souls of mischief casual etc.

On Mon, 24 May 1999 Shirei3000@aol.com wrote:

quoted 4 lines im not that into hip-hop to really have a great knowledge of underground

> im not that into hip-hop to really have a great knowledge of underground > mc's. but being on the west coast ive always njoi'd hieroglyphics crew. last > time i checked out there web site, they were selling undistrubuted tapes of > thiers... just for your info.

The Heiros are the best thing since the Leaders of the New School. 4x4 ridin over ditches, .Bil. IAMaCOPIER

quoted 4 lines Lexus thug mainstream. For one thing, you need to check your local >scene --

>Lexus thug mainstream. For one thing, you need to check your local >scene -- >nearly everywhere has some locals struggling to make a splash, and in >my >opinion Hip Hop is like beer -- there's no substitute for drinking a >local >brew while it's fresh; fuck the packaging.

ya, maybe i don't have to check the local scene. i'm stuck with Choclair, Kaos, Kardinal Offishall (sp?), etc.. weak, weak shit.

quoted 3 lines Check, if you're interested:

>Check, if you're interested: >Dr. Dooom -- Kool Keith reinvents himself again with a funny, profane >The Roots -- The Roots ALWAYS deliver, straight up. ?uestlove's live

both were discussed in the original message in this thread. as for the dr.dooom: i'd hate to have to suffer through an intrumental version. as far as i can tell, it's over in england that the hiphop sounds the freshest (by both definitions). as for their neighbours the french, unfortuantely i can't get past how silly rapping sounds en français. tomas

quoted 2 lines freshest (by both definitions). as for their neighbours the french,

> freshest (by both definitions). as for their neighbours the french, > unfortuantely i can't get past how silly rapping sounds en fran?ais.

I caught this weird french gansta-rap music video/movie thing on the International channel a few weeks ago. I don't know what it was called or how to get ahold of it. I was supprised how well the rhythm of the french rap fit with what was basically standard hip-hop beats. Of course, I haven't the faintest idea of what they were rapping about, but hell... I kinda dug it. -Ma'er...

La Cliqua are pretty dope (and don't sound like beret-wearing tossers) but I've only heard one song (which is on the import edition of the 'La Haine' soundtrack) and I've never been able to find anything else :/ It sounds pretty hardcore, but I have no idea what it's about (probably shopping for berets with Bill Laswell, or something) .Bil. IAMaCOPIER

quoted 4 lines as far as i can tell, it's over in england that the hiphop sounds the

> as far as i can tell, it's over in england that the hiphop sounds the > freshest (by both definitions). as for their neighbours the french, > unfortuantely i can't get past how silly rapping sounds en fran?ais. >

I'm really curious about something. How prevalent is hip-hop, American or otherwise, in England's various pop music outlets (MTV, radio, concerts, etc)? In America it's become the pop music that dominates all others, except among a certain cross-section of teenagers who like their teenybopper pop. But it's certainly more popular than most crappy alt-rock. IMO that's a great thing, because no matter how bad pop hip-hop gets, at least you can dance to it, whereas with 3rd Eye Blind, there's no recourse except hiding in a corner. I ask because it seems like British hip-hop will never get to be amazing unless it acquires a mass popularity there. I mean, an artist here or there, sure. But the reason for US hip-hop's continual self- renewal is that it has so many fans, and thus so many creators. Same way with techno in the UK--our scene will never be great until techno becomes the music of choice from cradle to grave for a large percentage of Americans. It's a matter of exposure, I'd think. Submersion in a certain genre leads to a deeper understanding of the genre's possibilities, and a greater mastery of its vocabulary. So what Brit rappers are genuinely good, and not just novelty items? Lewis parker... Who else? Sam PS--if I sent you a copy of my paper, I'd appreciate any response/comments. Criticize the fuck out of it if you want, but I'd like to know what youi thought, even if only briefly.

quoted 3 lines alt-rock. IMO that's a great thing, because no matter how bad pop hip-hop

> alt-rock. IMO that's a great thing, because no matter how bad pop hip-hop > gets, at least you can dance to it, whereas with 3rd Eye Blind, there's no > recourse except hiding in a corner.

here in canada, alt-rock is much more prevalent than hiphop. thank god. i'm much rather listen to Weezer or Pearl Jam than Mace or TLC. i don't want no "i don't want no scrubs". > I ask because it seems like British hip-hop will never get to be

quoted 2 lines amazing unless it acquires a mass popularity there. I mean, an artist

> amazing unless it acquires a mass popularity there. I mean, an artist > here

this comment is ridiculous! stylistically, nothing requires mass popularity to be amazing. you obviously need to look deeper to realize that all "amazing" genres exist despite and before mass popularity. maybe you were introduced to techno/IDM by the chemical brothers or prodigy.

quoted 2 lines or there, sure. But the reason for US hip-hop's continual self- renewal

> or there, sure. But the reason for US hip-hop's continual self- renewal > is that it has so many fans, and thus so many creators. Same way with

it is becuase of this that hiphop and techno is so trite and watered down. tomas

jeezus...Mace and TLC dont represent hip-hop....theyre r'n'b acts... and british hip-hop is amazing....funky DL, Blak Twang...and some other names i dont know coz i forget to ask all represent the u.k. i dont think that british hip-hop will ever be that well known stateside because of the saturation of rap acts in the u.s. alt rock = m.o.r. for 'disaffected' youth Tomas Jirku wrote:

quoted 25 lines alt-rock. IMO that's a great thing, because no matter how bad pop hip-hop

> > alt-rock. IMO that's a great thing, because no matter how bad pop hip-hop > > gets, at least you can dance to it, whereas with 3rd Eye Blind, there's no > > recourse except hiding in a corner. > > here in canada, alt-rock is much more prevalent than hiphop. thank god. > i'm much rather listen to Weezer or Pearl Jam than Mace or TLC. i don't > want no "i don't want no scrubs". > > > I ask because it seems like British hip-hop will never get to be > > amazing unless it acquires a mass popularity there. I mean, an artist > > here > > this comment is ridiculous! stylistically, nothing requires mass > popularity to be amazing. you obviously need to look deeper to realize > that all "amazing" genres exist despite and before mass popularity. > maybe you were introduced to techno/IDM by the chemical brothers or > prodigy. > > > or there, sure. But the reason for US hip-hop's continual self- renewal > > is that it has so many fans, and thus so many creators. Same way with > > it is becuase of this that hiphop and techno is so trite and watered > down. > > tomas

martin wood wrote:

quoted 3 lines jeezus...Mace and TLC dont represent hip-hop....theyre r'n'b acts...

> > jeezus...Mace and TLC dont represent hip-hop....theyre r'n'b acts... > and british hip-hop is amazing....funky DL, Blak Twang...and some other names i

were're talkng popular hiphop here and the point is: one reason (most) hiphop is so god-awful is that the line between r&b and rap has been taken away. puff-daddy and his boys represent the current state of popular hiphop. and then there's the no-limit allstars. oh boy. tomas

At 11:45 AM 5/27/99 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 3 lines puff-daddy and his boys represent the current state of

>puff-daddy and his boys represent the current state of >popular hiphop. >and then there's the no-limit allstars. oh boy.

just to clairfy. contarary to what most would like to belive, the past eight months have been the absolute best time in hip pop in a long while. Have you heard from puffy? (except for a little 'shout the chorus' bit on Nas' "hate me now") And now that he's off to prision (probably), i doubt you'll hear much more. Mase? His shitty harlem world side project bombed, and now he's retired. No Limit hasn't had a genuine hit since 'make 'em say unngh'. As far as i'm concerned, DMX/Ruff Ryders is the only wack shit still around. (Jay-Z & Roc-A-Fella are bearable lyrically, IMHO. Check Jay-Z's "Dead Presidents" LP if you don't belive me.) lauren hill, the roots, and outkast all had HUGE hits, all while keeping their integrity and without corny ass pop beats. even Prince Paul, Brand Nubian, Cool Breeze, and Blackstar had mild hits. and for what it's worth, Rawkus' soundboming II comp debuted at #30 on billboard last week i'm telling you wack hip hop will die in the near future.

quoted 2 lines still around. (Jay-Z & Roc-A-Fella are bearable lyrically, IMHO. Check

> still around. (Jay-Z & Roc-A-Fella are bearable lyrically, IMHO. Check > Jay-Z's "Dead Presidents" LP if you don't belive me.)

actually, i kind of hate jay-z's lyrics...but i like his flows, in general. i think his stuff is better musically than lyrically, anyway-- i dig the faux-timbaland (which would be faux-faux-jungle) beats on his "jigga what jigga who" song. i agree that good hip hop is blowing up, finally. i think everyone has gotten over 2pac/biggie/last gasps of gangsta, and now there's a huge vacuum that everybody from CoFlow to eminem is rushing into.

quoted 2 lines their integrity and without corny ass pop beats. even Prince Paul, Brand

> their integrity and without corny ass pop beats. even Prince Paul, Brand > Nubian, Cool Breeze, and Blackstar had mild hits.

plus, prince paul will be keeping it up with those two projects with the automator and other folks...i just dug out an old 3rd bass tape last week, and little did i know that prince paul did much of the production!

quoted 2 lines and for what it's worth, Rawkus' soundboming II comp debuted at #30 on

> and for what it's worth, Rawkus' soundboming II comp debuted at #30 on > billboard last week

which, for what it's worth, is amazing. bahamadia (guest on roni size's album) guests on a reflection eternal track that's just mind-blowing.

quoted 1 line i'm telling you wack hip hop will die in the near future.

> i'm telling you wack hip hop will die in the near future.

well, not likely...there's always bad mc's and wack beats. BUT, we're in a new golden age! ooops...IDM content. well, hell, i just spent five days in the back woods of pennsylvania. the closest thing to idm i've heard all week was the lightsabers in star wars. r o b !

martin wood wrote:

quoted 1 line jeezus...Mace and TLC dont represent hip-hop....theyre r'n'b acts...

> jeezus...Mace and TLC dont represent hip-hop....theyre r'n'b acts...

awesome. so you'll be our emissary, then. spread the word throughout the commercial radio stations of canada, bring a few really good hip-hop plates & tell them the following: "the shite you're trying to pass as hip-hop is just watered down r'n'b crap & in all honesty it sucks big time. they don't represent hip-hop, but this does. <passing actual hip-hop records> could you play it? i _know_ it's not on cd, but you're a dj right? i'm only asking for some good taste here. thanks." then they'll check their advertising contracts & say no. (or more likely, if you ask the show host, he'll look at you weird for a minute & then he'll ask you to repeet becoz e didunt enderstand duh 1st feew werdz du00ddddd, waaaayyy 2 many werdz in dat sentuns (iz dat duh werd?????) du000ddd.) good luck anyway! you're our last hope. -- david turgeon at http://www.notype.com

> jeezus...Mace and TLC dont represent hip-hop....theyre r'n'b acts... awesome. so you'll be our emissary, then. spread the word throughout the commercial radio stations of canada, bring a few really good hip-hop plates & tell them the following: the TLC album is about the best record that's come out this year in any genre .. but whatever the new 702 single is excellent and Timbaland never ceases to amaze me with each new track he puts out