IDM Mailing Archive

From: david turgeon <eerie@mnemonic.net>

quoted 1 line while "seek" 12" (musik aus strom)

> while "seek" 12" (musik aus strom)

quoted 9 lines this gets a lot of play in my pad. whereas the skam/mas crew isn't

> this gets a lot of play in my pad. whereas the skam/mas crew isn't > necessarily my ballpark & i'm the furthest thing from a 'spotter though > i appreciate the sound, the 4 tracks on "seek" are highly listenable, > interesting throughout, all in all: impressively _compelling_. the > tracks are builders, which start quite modestly (even quirkily) with new > layers of samples popping in every so often, though never a melody you'd > expect. actually, in terms of song construction alone, while reminds me > of lillianthal & o.s.t.'s tracks on the emanated compilation; in other > words: solid, & varied.

hi. thought i would chime in with my 2-bits since everybody has been giving this the unanimous big-ups here. i mail-ordered this and found it to be a tremendous letdown. packaging is in exquisite indented cardboard, and the thick vinyl is gorgeous as well but that's about it! the music to be found etched into such is more of the same 95 era Booth & Brown by (whole) numbers; give or take some dilution with same ol' same ol' angst ridden tears and a few specks of Berlin crackle in the mix.. all tracks were entirely safe and unadventurous (considering this guy is putting out a double-12" on Chocolate soon) and dare i say it boring. i mean where's the passion?! and wonder when the java script for churning out this generic shit is out. ears are for listening, and i don't think that Musik Aus Strom and their ilk would do half as well if it weren't so difficult for the public to hear the material first hand.. fuck it peeps. get your own softwares and make your own tunes! [74x'y"] np: ilhan mimaroglu "wings of a delirious demon" (the shit)

re: while "seek"

quoted 6 lines all tracks were entirely safe and unadventurous (considering this guy

> all tracks were entirely safe and unadventurous (considering this guy > is putting out a double-12" on Chocolate soon) and dare i say it boring. > i mean where's the passion?! and wonder when the java script for churning > out this generic shit is out. ears are for listening, and i don't think > that Musik Aus Strom and their ilk would do half as well if it weren't > so difficult for the public to hear the material first hand..

yeah, i must agree that depending on what you compare it to, you may find it safe & unadventurous. i guess it all boils down to whether you like it or not, & nobody can help that, really. :) i thought that at least the song construction showed some complexity, i.e. not just one sample repeated over & over in the same chord, which is what i hear a lot of these days. & most importantly, i dig it when i hear it. now, when i put say jega-ska009 on, (isince we're talking about the mas/skam camp) that's another story altogether. anybody wants it, actually? i'll have it for sale of trade if anyone's interested. damn, i should really stop buying vinyls just because the girl at the counter tells me it has the greeeeaaatest drum n bass track she's eeeever heard. -- david turgeon at http://www.notype.com

quoted 1 line and I don't think that Musik Aus Strom and their ilk would do half as

>and I don't think that Musik Aus Strom and their ilk would do half as

well if it weren't

quoted 1 line so difficult for the public to hear the material first hand..

>so difficult for the public to hear the material first hand..

I'd agree with that, you just have to look at Lance's auction items to see how ltd they are (or are perceived to be) - $160 so far for the Legofeet 12"!!! Twoism $120 so far!!! I tried to offer but it just got way out of my league. I thought that everyone had (or could get) the MP3s of these anyway. I know that there is a case of owing the original but surely not at that cost. How you gonna feel when Skam re-issues all their back catalogue for a fiver each? I can honestly see that happening. This raises another point that maybe people on the list with their own labels could answer. Why would you let a product be so ltd that it fetches this much 2nd hand? After all Skam are not going to see any return from this sale are they? The money goes straight to the guy who's selling - he/she probably bought it for $10 or $15 a few years back and I'm sure they are rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of all that profit. I admit I was caught up in a rush of blood, the "must have" factor is very high but to be honest I am relieved that I was out-bidded in the end, I think I would have felt extremely guilty knowing I'd spent such a silly amount on one 12". So to finish wouldn't it make huge sense (financial at least) for Skam to think about re-issuing the older releases now that their profile is at it highest? I'm sure they won't be top of the tree forever..... graham

quoted 62 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Chuan Lim [SMTP:flaky@minotaur.labyrinth.net.au] > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 11:29 AM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Cc: david turgeon > Subject: (idm) Re: While "Seek" EP inspiration not found! > > > From: david turgeon <eerie@mnemonic.net> > > > while "seek" 12" (musik aus strom) > > > this gets a lot of play in my pad. whereas the skam/mas crew isn't > > necessarily my ballpark & i'm the furthest thing from a 'spotter > though > > i appreciate the sound, the 4 tracks on "seek" are highly > listenable, > > interesting throughout, all in all: impressively _compelling_. the > > tracks are builders, which start quite modestly (even quirkily) with > new > > layers of samples popping in every so often, though never a melody > you'd > > expect. actually, in terms of song construction alone, while reminds > me > > of lillianthal & o.s.t.'s tracks on the emanated compilation; in > other > > words: solid, & varied. > > hi. thought i would chime in with my 2-bits since everybody has been > giving this the unanimous big-ups here. i mail-ordered this and found > it > to be a tremendous letdown. packaging is in exquisite indented > cardboard, > and the thick vinyl is gorgeous as well but that's about it! the music > to be found etched into such is more of the same 95 era Booth & Brown > by (whole) numbers; give or take some dilution with same ol' same ol' > angst ridden tears and a few specks of Berlin crackle in the mix.. > > all tracks were entirely safe and unadventurous (considering this guy > is putting out a double-12" on Chocolate soon) and dare i say it > boring. > i mean where's the passion?! and wonder when the java script for > churning > out this generic shit is out. ears are for listening, and i don't > think > that Musik Aus Strom and their ilk would do half as well if it weren't > so difficult for the public to hear the material first hand.. > > fuck it peeps. get your own softwares and make your own tunes! > > > > [74x'y"] > > > np: ilhan mimaroglu "wings of a delirious demon" (the shit) > > > > > >

quoted 4 lines So to finish wouldn't it make huge sense

> So to finish wouldn't it make huge sense > (financial at least) for Skam to think about re-issuing the older > releases now that their profile is at it highest? I'm sure they won't be > top of the tree forever.....

It might, but the hype is also self-sustaining. "at its highest" is relative. It's been at this height for a long while now, and while various IDmers and other try to debunk it every few months, the scarcity means that the hype is not going to go away any time soon. But a rerelease would kill the hype in a few weeks, unless it's as amazing as everyone says. Look at what happened when Analogue Bubblebath 3 (?)and caustic Window were rereleased--a whole chunk of the Aphex mythology went down the drain, as people realized his hard-to-find music is just that, music, and not the holy grail of art. How long had the hype for those items lasted before they were rereleased? A damn long time, I'm sure. The way the economics work for Skam now, they can release new items whenever they want, which fans will buy on the rep of a few rarities. Are rarities the obsessive fanboy's version of killer advertising? I think so... Sam

quoted 7 lines This raises another point that maybe people on the list with their own

> This raises another point that maybe people on the list with their own > labels could answer. Why would you let a product be so ltd that it > fetches this much 2nd hand? After all Skam are not going to see any > return from this sale are they? The money goes straight to the guy who's > selling - he/she probably bought it for $10 or $15 a few years back and > I'm sure they are rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of all > that profit.

i would say that maybe the mere fact that these releases are bound to take so much value is what makes them interesting to buy, & thus interesting to produce for the label, because they know they're going to sell them all -- & just that is probably doing a lot more good (financially-wise) to skam/mas than whatever profit they could make from 2nd hand selling if they could do something like that. -- david turgeon at http://www.notype.com

I agree that rareties started off this whole obsession many people have with Skam but its also down to the fact that they do put out some excellent music. I only had the three Gescom eps up until a little while ago then I was introduced to BoC, Bola and Jega through various other releases and my fascination has grown and grown. Now I find myself saying to people that "I only need 3 more Skam 12" s!" in an excited, almost childlike way - thats the collector side of me coming out I suppose. I feel though that my fondness of the label would not disappear over night if they were to re-issue early releases, in fact I would rush out and buy them to complete my collection and then I would have to get every new release to keep it going wouldn't I? Skam can do no wrong at the moment but you only have to look at the growing disatisfaction with some of the latest Rephlex releases to see that the tide can turn. As far as your point on the AFX re-releases damaging their rep, I would have to disagree. I have just sold my Caustic Window J9 ep for a decent figure and seen the value of my original AB3 vinyl hold firm, if not increase. Spotters will always neeeed the original, thats what I have found. The fact that the Caustic Window / AB3 music is probably the best stuff RDJ has ever done has helped keep that "mystique" as well. So there will always be people who will gladly pay $200 for a single 12" and good luck too them, I'd just be a bit pissed off that it wasn't me making the cash!! graham

quoted 35 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Frank [SMTP:samuel.frank@yale.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 3:55 PM > To: Graham Voice > Cc: 'Chuan Lim'; David Turgeon (E-mail); Idm (E-mail) > Subject: RE: (idm) Re: While "Seek" EP inspiration not found! > > > So to finish wouldn't it make huge sense > > (financial at least) for Skam to think about re-issuing the older > > releases now that their profile is at it highest? I'm sure they > won't be > > top of the tree forever..... > > > It might, but the hype is also self-sustaining. "at its highest" is > relative. It's been at this height for a long while now, and while > various IDmers and other try to debunk it every few months, the > scarcity > means that the hype is not going to go away any time soon. But a > rerelease would kill the hype in a few weeks, unless it's as amazing > as > everyone says. Look at what happened when Analogue Bubblebath 3 > (?)and > caustic Window were rereleased--a whole chunk of the Aphex mythology > went > down the drain, as people realized his hard-to-find music is just > that, > music, and not the holy grail of art. How long had the hype for those > items lasted before they were rereleased? A damn long time, I'm sure. > The way the economics work for Skam now, they can release new > items whenever they want, which fans will buy on the rep of a few > rarities. Are rarities the obsessive fanboy's version of killer > advertising? I think so... > > Sam

quoted 6 lines I only had the three Gescom eps up until a little while

>I only had the three Gescom eps up until a little while >ago then I was introduced to BoC, Bola and Jega through various other >releases and my fascination has grown and grown. Now I find myself >saying to people that "I only need 3 more Skam 12" s!" in an excited, >almost childlike way - thats the collector side of me coming out I >suppose.

Being a kollektorskum myself, I have to agree that some of the "limitedness" as described by Simon Reynolds sometimes goes out of hand. I believe our classic example of this would be Markant. Anyway, I, however, have to points to bring up: 1) "up until a little while ago then I was introduced to BoC, Bola and Jega" - This phrase typifies many of your situations. I hope this doesn't sound harsh, but you missed out. When this great music originally came out, you weren't interested. I know, it sucks, it's happened to me on numerous occassions. Many of the now scarce works of Bola, BoC, or any other artist that is being accused of releasing music on a much too limited basis were available at the original prices for months after they were released. I remember still seeing a stack Gescom "The Sounds..." EPs for $9 that wouldn't sell at a local shop a whole year after it was released whilst they were fetching over $40 on this list. My point is that just because you weren't interested in the music before many others, doesn't mean labels like SKAM, Diskono, Rephlex, or whoever should be blamed for being elitists. 2) This goes mainly against the Reynolds discussion a few weeks ago (sorry if it's out of place)... some critics superficially brand IDM (a phrase I use loosely) for being self-containing because of the limited releases. If the genre were to be analized further, they would see that these limited releases are mainly for minor releases such as singles and EPs. The majority of artists' material, like albums, are readily available. This is the case with most forms of underground or independent music. A few 7"s here and there are exceptionally rare (see Tortoise, Stereolab, Coil, Belle and Sebastian, etc) and the whole scene gets blamed for being "anal." This just doesn't make much sense to me, as much of it isn't that hard to find if people would just get off their couches and go to a decent shop on-line or in-town and do a little research. I do not want to start a flame war with this message. It's just my opinion that there's always too much unwarranted and excessive whining about the quantity of releases, when I'd rather see more reviews or other discussions. Mike.