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Re: (idm) politicks

9 messages · 4 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) coldcut and agit prop · (idm) politicks
1999-05-10 15:15Rjyan C Kidwell (idm) politicks
└─ 1999-05-10 17:17Andrew Hime Re: (idm) politicks
1999-05-10 15:51david turgeon Re: (idm) politicks
1999-05-10 18:31Andrew Hime Re: (idm) politicks
1999-05-10 22:24Rjyan C Kidwell Re: (idm) politicks
1999-05-11 14:37david turgeon Re: (idm) politicks
1999-05-11 16:24Moonlight Re: (idm) politicks
1999-05-11 18:09david turgeon Re: (idm) politicks
└─ 1999-05-11 21:39Moonlight (idm) coldcut and agit prop
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1999-05-10 15:15Rjyan C Kidwell>That having been said, you will only get flamed for pursuing a >"political" agenda on thi
From:
Rjyan C Kidwell
To:
Date:
Mon, 10 May 1999 11:15:43 -0400
Subject:
(idm) politicks
permalink · <19990510.111733.3894.5.cardhore@juno.com>
quoted 5 lines That having been said, you will only get flamed for pursuing a>That having been said, you will only get flamed for pursuing a >"political" agenda on this list. Perhaps it is good to see posts like >this every once in a while to sober us out of our hazy insular worlds, >but this mailing list is probably not the forum to discuss political >economy.
alright, that's it, now you've done it, i am going to start putting out politcal IDM records, just so we open up the list to more serious discussion when it naturally suggests itself, rather than having to cut these discussions off. np: cex - 'totalitarian agriculturalist time bomb EP' ,rj../ ___,"www.gl.umbc.edu/~nworth1 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
1999-05-10 17:17Andrew Hime> >That having been said, you will only get flamed for pursuing a > >"political" agenda on
From:
Andrew Hime
To:
Date:
Mon, 10 May 1999 12:17:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) politicks
Reply to:
(idm) politicks
permalink · <199905101717.MAA21459@kali.wf.net>
quoted 11 lines That having been said, you will only get flamed for pursuing a> >That having been said, you will only get flamed for pursuing a > >"political" agenda on this list. Perhaps it is good to see posts like > >this every once in a while to sober us out of our hazy insular worlds, > >but this mailing list is probably not the forum to discuss political > >economy. > > alright, that's it, now you've done it, i am going > to start putting out politcal IDM records, just > so we open up the list to more serious > discussion when it naturally suggests itself, > rather than having to cut these discussions off.
Oh yay, digital hardcore all over again? Sucky music, hilariously dumb political ideas... I can't wait.
1999-05-10 15:51david turgeon> alright, that's it, now you've done it, i am going > to start putting out politcal IDM r
From:
david turgeon
To:
Rjyan C Kidwell
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 10 May 1999 11:51:32 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) politicks
permalink · <37370080.DF4D73B2@mnemonic.net>
quoted 5 lines alright, that's it, now you've done it, i am going> alright, that's it, now you've done it, i am going > to start putting out politcal IDM records, just > so we open up the list to more serious > discussion when it naturally suggests itself, > rather than having to cut these discussions off.
the problem with politics is that it's such a timely concept, whereas we all want music to be so timeless. then again, timelessness may be overrated after all. i can appreciate a "timeless classic" but i like recent music & art so much better, because they're likely to be, well, more up-to-date (even when the playing or composition may not be as cristalline or groundbreaking). so well, yeah, political records, make 'em, love 'em. in most everybody's view, politicians clearly are not very skilled at managing countries (the task which we call politics), so it's not like you won't make a valid point if you criticize something they did. perhaps if there's no lyrics... then the music can transcend its subject (so to speak (how could i _not_ say "so to speak" with a word like "transcend")) & still be relevant years after the political reference the composition is alluding to has been forgotten about or dismissed as unimportant. in the very least a strong title & concept will force the listener to give a thought or two to the matter in question. but then, if the goal is to make people think, we should also make albums about astrophysics, & philosophy, & whatnot.
quoted 1 line np: cex - 'totalitarian agriculturalist time bomb EP'> np: cex - 'totalitarian agriculturalist time bomb EP'
is that on underscore? -- david turgeon at http://www.notype.com
1999-05-10 18:31Andrew Hime> I C! Eloquent. I hereby proclaim you the elder statesman of IDM. > > > -----Original Mes
From:
Andrew Hime
To:
Date:
Mon, 10 May 1999 13:31:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) politicks
permalink · <199905101831.NAA22055@kali.wf.net>
quoted 1 line I C!> I C!
Eloquent. I hereby proclaim you the elder statesman of IDM.
quoted 21 lines -----Original Message-----> > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andrew Hime [SMTP:hime@kali.wf.net] > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 1:28 PM > > To: KHACKETT@aba.iupui.edu > > Subject: Re: (idm) politicks > > > > > Mr. Hime, > > > > > > Although U may not answer this question, your sarcasm felt, what > > might > > > your political thoughts be. Just curious, for in order to pass a > > > judgement like that, ya must have pol. ideas of your own! > > > > I lean along the lines of the Libertarian party, but find their more > > Republican ideas a bit annoying. Basically, I'm for more freedom in > > general. I think shouting "start the fucking riot" and thinking it has > > useful effect to a bunch of angry teenagers is something approaching > > amusing... > > >
1999-05-10 22:24Rjyan C Kidwell>the problem with politics is that it's such a timely concept, whereas >we all want music
From:
Rjyan C Kidwell
To:
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 10 May 1999 18:24:12 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) politicks
permalink · <19990510.190559.3918.0.cardhore@juno.com>
quoted 6 lines the problem with politics is that it's such a timely concept, whereas>the problem with politics is that it's such a timely concept, whereas >we all want music to be so timeless. then again, timelessness may be >overrated after all. i can appreciate a "timeless classic" but i like >recent music & art so much better, because they're likely to be, well, >more up-to-date (even when the playing or composition may not be as >cristalline or groundbreaking).
yeah, actually, that's a great point. then there's the other problem with politics, that, -- but don't get me wrong i'm all about passion -- those hell-bent on a certain political topic tend to get tunnel-vision, and go all pedantic and pedagogical on you, making even a timely topic seem distant or irrelevant.
quoted 2 lines but then, if the goal is to make people think, we should also make>but then, if the goal is to make people think, we should also make >albums about astrophysics, & philosophy, & whatnot.
ahahaah... i hope there's a Warp PR man reading this now... "Greg! Get on the phone with Richard! Tell him he's gonna have to get a BS!"
quoted 3 lines np: cex - 'totalitarian agriculturalist time bomb EP'>> np: cex - 'totalitarian agriculturalist time bomb EP' > >is that on underscore?
ahaha, i wish. that was a joke. i can't stop writing these sad, love-themed tracks long enough to do a whole political album... yet. but... (/self-promotion mode on) the first installments of the Shift-Minus 7" series are due out quite soon! ,rj../ ___,"www.gl.umbc.edu/~nworth1 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
1999-05-11 14:37david turgeon> yeah, actually, that's a great point. > then there's the other problem with politics, th
From:
david turgeon
To:
Rjyan C Kidwell
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 11 May 1999 10:37:53 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) politicks
permalink · <373840B9.84780DD1@mnemonic.net>
quoted 7 lines yeah, actually, that's a great point.> yeah, actually, that's a great point. > then there's the other problem with politics, that, -- > but don't get me wrong i'm all about passion -- > those hell-bent on a certain political topic tend > to get tunnel-vision, and go all pedantic and > pedagogical on you, making even a timely topic > seem distant or irrelevant.
well, yeah, there's always this ideological drive which people feel like they should shove off everybody's ears, whereas this is not only rude (i.e. people are entitled to their opinion) but also inefficient. the only message that will truly make its way is the one that is rationally explained -- if a dumbed down message gets in people's minds, it's because they've been prepared by it through a previous, more rational message. thus the dumbing down produces the "convincing spark", but you still need the rational fuel -- & the more fuel you give, the more efficient the spark. that said, when i say "rational" i'm not talking about rationalist philosophy or anything like that -- instead i mean the process of using your brain to get from a to b in the most efficient manner. also i in no way mean that only "truth", or "right", or "good" could pass as a valid message, much on the contrary -- remember that the most heinous crimes have their own philosophy, & yes, a rational aspect to them. best example i can think of is how hegel's nationalist views led to what we now call fascism. fortunately this requires more time & effort than just producing sparks, & takes much longer to reach its audience, so actual rational bases for further ideological movements are much rarer, & require enough thought so that you have some time to defuse a dangerous ideology before it gets too far-spread -- in other words, you can't just "push the red button" on a whim. in a way, you're building the red button so that someone may push it, which has the potential to be immensely destructive or immensely beneficial -- or more likely a mixture of both, but we're used to that by now aren't we? those disgressions aside, what to do as far as political music goes? until now all i've seen is music used as sparks. rational music would be quite nuts. i have no clue how that could be done, but i think i'm going to seriously begin to think about it.
quoted 6 lines but then, if the goal is to make people think, we should also make> >but then, if the goal is to make people think, we should also make > >albums about astrophysics, & philosophy, & whatnot. > ahahaah... i hope there's a Warp PR man > reading this now... "Greg! Get on the phone > with Richard! Tell him he's gonna have to > get a BS!"
oh, you just have to drop a heidegger rhyme here & there, & make a song about neutron stars or logical positivism. "I... WILL EAT... YOUR... QUARK"
quoted 6 lines np: cex - 'totalitarian agriculturalist time bomb EP'> >> np: cex - 'totalitarian agriculturalist time bomb EP' > >is that on underscore? > ahaha, i wish. that was a joke. > i can't stop writing these sad, love-themed > tracks long enough to do a whole political > album... yet. but...
this reminds me that i have yet to hear "cells".
quoted 3 lines (/self-promotion mode on)> (/self-promotion mode on) > the first installments of the Shift-Minus 7" > series are due out quite soon!
get 'em to montreal. i'll hook you up with stores. -- david turgeon at http://www.notype.com
1999-05-11 16:24Moonlight>those disgressions aside, what to do as far as political music goes? I think that Coldcut
From:
Moonlight
To:
Date:
Tue, 11 May 1999 11:24:27 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) politicks
permalink · <3.0.5.32.19990511112427.0089c100@augsburg.edu>
quoted 1 line those disgressions aside, what to do as far as political music goes?>those disgressions aside, what to do as far as political music goes?
I think that Coldcut does quite a good job on "Pan Opticon." I'm not quite sure if that's one of your "sparks", or more. The song has a lot of resonance here where a bunch of people are protesting a relocation of a highway onto sacred ground to some Native Americans. "This is what you do when they come to take you out of your house..." exactly. _________________________________ Adam Roesch / roesch@augsburg.edu Augsburg College / Minneapolis / MN / USA Visit my Fila Brazillia/Pork Recordings fan site: http://dogbert.augsburg.edu/~roesch/pork/ "The only disease we need in our blood is love" TRICKY
1999-05-11 18:09david turgeon> >those disgressions aside, what to do as far as political music goes? > I think that Col
From:
david turgeon
To:
Moonlight
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 11 May 1999 14:09:37 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) politicks
permalink · <37387261.4D18918E@mnemonic.net>
quoted 6 lines those disgressions aside, what to do as far as political music goes?> >those disgressions aside, what to do as far as political music goes? > I think that Coldcut does quite a good job on "Pan Opticon." I'm not quite > sure if that's one of your "sparks", or more. The song has a lot of > resonance here where a bunch of people are protesting a relocation of a > highway onto sacred ground to some Native Americans. "This is what you do > when they come to take you out of your house..." exactly.
how is the song built? what makes it political/ideological? -- david turgeon at http://www.notype.com
1999-05-11 21:39Moonlight>how is the song built? what makes it political/ideological? Starts with a solemn, somber
From:
Moonlight
To:
Date:
Tue, 11 May 1999 16:39:10 -0500
Subject:
(idm) coldcut and agit prop
Reply to:
Re: (idm) politicks
permalink · <3.0.5.32.19990511163910.008b3970@augsburg.edu>
quoted 1 line how is the song built? what makes it political/ideological?>how is the song built? what makes it political/ideological?
Starts with a solemn, somber groove and many small snippets of voices, people saying things like "Guilty of violence agaisnt the earth" "all that is left is a single question: at which tree do we stop?" "all the younger geneartions here they've all got your number. you're obsolete." The song builds, breaks down, more political uprising vocal snippets, the song builds again to its height. Protests, people screaming. "Till the next time a tree gets in the way of progress." Great. The video is even better, with the actual footage of people protesting, trying to keep thier neighborhoods from being destroyed and police trying to evict them. Listening to it, i now wish that Takemura would have chosen this track to remix. Timber is in the same vein, a though more fun, but with a message that really only comes from the liner notes or video. All the sounds come from forests, deforestation footage, etc. The "drums" are from people cutting down trees by axe, "guitars" are chainsaws, and the vocal is from a woman from a rainforest. Atomic Moog 2000 is an anti-nuke song, with vocal snippets like "we can destroy them and contaminate them" "i made the run, let the bomb go, that was my greatest thrill" "atomic military buildup can be reversed" "outlaw the bomb" Boot the System (on single only) contains computer-generated lyrics (i forget the program, but rdj uses it for the respect list) about "genocide" and "babylon system" and asks "why do our governments promote war?" "Weapons they sell...to make this whole planet hell." According to liner notes, dedicated to CAAT (Campaign Against the Arms Trade). And on the Jello Biafra song "every home a prison", the politics are all from Jello's rant.
quoted 2 lines weren't "Pan Opticon" and "Timber" done in tandem with a Greenpea>weren't "Pan Opticon" and "Timber" done in tandem with a Greenpeace video >project?
Not Pan Opticon as far as the liner notes show, but both the singles for "Timber" and "Atomic Moog 2000" are dedicated to greenpeace.
quoted 2 lines too bad i don't like coldcut that much. i don't see much of a point in>too bad i don't like coldcut that much. i don't see much of a point in >getting music just for the free propaganda. :) actually i wonder who would.
Well, i bought "You've got the fucking power" (DHR comp) even though i generally hate their music. But that had other factors besides their funny ideology: only $.99, annoys roomies more than me, hope that there was a great alec empire song on it. There wasn't. np: Thurston Moore "Root" Alec Empire remix _________________________________ Adam Roesch / roesch@augsburg.edu Augsburg College / Minneapolis / MN / USA Visit my Fila Brazillia/Pork Recordings fan site: http://dogbert.augsburg.edu/~roesch/pork/ "The only disease we need in our blood is love" TRICKY