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Offering a slightly different opinion of most of what's been said on the topic of dub records... Rule 1) if bill laswell plays bass on it, don't buy it. No matter how good the other people are on the CD, it will suck. If it's a whole CD by Bill Laswell, it will be atrocious. (note: many things that look like they are by Laswell are only produced/compiled by him - these are sometimes oK) Rule 2) The Mad Professor is only good at remixes. He may be the absolute top of the pops at it (he is) but don't buy his LPs. Rule 3) Wordsound is the best functioning label for dubbed out stuff. By far. Rule 4) Lee Perry is at this point completely worthless. Get the boxset, maybe some older LPs, but music like Technomajikal makes me ill. Rule 5) There are several schools of dub reggae, one of which originated in Jamaica in the 60s, another of which in the UK in the 90s. Decide what you like (there are of course other styles) - there are records in both that are very good. The former is more smooth, more reggaeish, more "live" (Lee Perry, Gregory Isaacs (sometimes) etc) the latter focuses on massive stomping basslines (Rootsman, Alpha Omega, etc). dub stylin' --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:05:19 -0500 (EST) Arthur Purvis <abpurvis@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> writes:

quoted 8 lines Offering a slightly different opinion of most of what's been said on

>Offering a slightly different opinion of most of what's been said on >the >topic of dub records... > >Rule 1) if bill laswell plays bass on it, don't buy it. No matter >how good the other people are on the CD, it will suck. If it's a >whole CD >by Bill Laswell, it will be atrocious.

uh huh...its easy to generalize about a body of work that encompasses over 100 releases isnt it?

quoted 2 lines Rule 2) The Mad Professor is only good at remixes. He may be the

>Rule 2) The Mad Professor is only good at remixes. He may be the >absolute top of the pops at it (he is) but don't buy his LPs.

again, a generalization...

quoted 2 lines Rule 3) Wordsound is the best functioning label for dubbed out

>Rule 3) Wordsound is the best functioning label for dubbed out >stuff. By far.

guess u havent heard of echo beach and on-u sound to name two...

quoted 3 lines Rule 4) Lee Perry is at this point completely worthless. Get the

>Rule 4) Lee Perry is at this point completely worthless. Get the >boxset, >maybe some older LPs, but music like Technomajikal makes me ill.

guess you havent heard "time boom X the devil dead", or "from the secret laboratory"?

quoted 11 lines Rule 5) There are several schools of dub reggae, one of which

>Rule 5) There are several schools of dub reggae, one of which >originated >in Jamaica in the 60s, another of which in the UK in the 90s. Decide >what >you like (there are of course other styles) - there are records in >both >that are very good. The former is more smooth, more reggaeish, more >"live" (Lee Perry, Gregory Isaacs (sometimes) etc) the latter focuses >on >massive stomping basslines (Rootsman, Alpha Omega, etc). >

you make it seem like there is a void of 30 years, which there isnt...you are forgetting the 70/80s, which really fused these two eras together...those were the years where dub and reggae expanded their attraction into so many other genres (remember the clash?or the police? or grace jones?) and produced classics like black uhuru, steel pulse, burning spear, aswad, sly and robbie's taxxi gang, etc etc etc... tom w np: robert wyatt - the end of an ear ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

well, it seems like a lot of people on the list are into dub (and reggae), so: can anyone recommend anything by or give me info on barrington levy?... theres one track on the trojan story pt2. box set. 'rob & gone' ..and its amazing...i need more.. please help.. martin

On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, thomas m weibrecht wrote:

quoted 6 lines Rule 1) if bill laswell plays bass on it, don't buy it. No matter

> >Rule 1) if bill laswell plays bass on it, don't buy it. No matter > >how good the other people are on the CD, it will suck. If it's a > >whole CD by Bill Laswell, it will be atrocious. > > uh huh...its easy to generalize about a body of work that encompasses > over 100 releases isnt it?

In this case, yes. I have heard probably 30 or so Laswell records. None of them were good, save the Praxis and Last Exit ones and the Oscillations mixes (none of which have anything to do with dub, and in all cases, none have much to do with Laswell).

quoted 4 lines Rule 2) The Mad Professor is only good at remixes. He may be the

> >Rule 2) The Mad Professor is only good at remixes. He may be the > >absolute top of the pops at it (he is) but don't buy his LPs. > > again, a generalization...

Less so than you think. I've heard many many Mad Professor records after being blown away by vs. Massive Attack.

quoted 4 lines Rule 3) Wordsound is the best functioning label for dubbed out

> >Rule 3) Wordsound is the best functioning label for dubbed out > >stuff. By far. > > guess u havent heard of echo beach and on-u sound to name two...

I haven't heard of echo beach, but Wordsound blows on-u out of the water.

quoted 6 lines Rule 4) Lee Perry is at this point completely worthless. Get the

> >Rule 4) Lee Perry is at this point completely worthless. Get the > >boxset, maybe some older LPs, but music like Technomajikal makes me > >ill. > > guess you havent heard "time boom X the devil dead", or "from the secret > laboratory"?

I heard technomajikal and 4 other recent records. They all sucked. Dunno if I heard those tracks.

quoted 18 lines Rule 5) There are several schools of dub reggae, one of which

> >Rule 5) There are several schools of dub reggae, one of which > >originated > >in Jamaica in the 60s, another of which in the UK in the 90s. Decide > >what > >you like (there are of course other styles) - there are records in > >both > >that are very good. The former is more smooth, more reggaeish, more > >"live" (Lee Perry, Gregory Isaacs (sometimes) etc) the latter focuses > >on > >massive stomping basslines (Rootsman, Alpha Omega, etc). > > > > you make it seem like there is a void of 30 years, which there isnt...you > are forgetting the 70/80s, which really fused these two eras > together...those were the years where dub and reggae expanded their > attraction into so many other genres (remember the clash?or the police? > or grace jones?) and produced classics like black uhuru, steel pulse, > burning spear, aswad, sly and robbie's taxxi gang, etc etc etc...

I said there are other categories. I didn't discuss them. Read what I wrote. --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

Rule 1) if bill laswell plays bass on it, don't buy it. No matter how good the other people are on the CD, it will suck. If it's a whole CD by Bill Laswell, it will be atrocious. (note: many things that look like they are by Laswell are only produced/compiled by him - these are sometimes oK) Wow! Bill Laswell has done MANY albums of MANY different genres and although he has quite a lot of 'cut-outs', overall, I am impressed with his work. Have you ever heard "Oscillations" - jungle/d n'b (Sub Rosa) w/ Ninj? Or even "Dub Creations" (AXIOM) which features Jah Wobble and many different artists?

quoted 2 lines Rule 2) The Mad Professor is only good at remixes. He may be the

>Rule 2) The Mad Professor is only good at remixes. He may be the >absolute top of the pops at it (he is) but don't buy his LPs.

With the abundance of Mad Professor CDs out there, its hard to pick the winners but I have always really dug Mad Professor "It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Professor" (ARIWA) {trk 12 - Fast Forward Into Dub has the vocals that The Orb sampled in The Blue Room}; "Mazaruni" (ARIWA) - very Ragga! and "Rupununi Safari" (ARIWA) - features Douggie Digital and the Juggler (nice jungle!). I spoke with him at the Lee Perry show in Boston, he is a very polite and a personable man, which is very cool - especially when the talk is mostly business. Rule 4) Lee Perry is at this point completely worthless. Get the boxset, maybe some older LPs, but music like Technomajikal makes me ill. Anything he did solo after the early 90's is quite awful. Of the "newest" albums, Lee Perry "Super Ape In a Jungle" - has some good ragga tracks.

quoted 4 lines Rule 5) There are several schools of dub reggae, one of which originated

>Rule 5) There are several schools of dub reggae, one of which originated >in Jamaica in the 60s, another of which in the UK in the 90s. Decide what >you like (there are of course other styles) - there are records in both >that are very good.

Hell Yeah! It all started in Jamaica. Lee Perry "Upsetter In Dub" (HB 77) (Heartbeat Records) is a must for anyone who wants to revisit the roots of dub. Another great dub album is Dub Specialist "17 Dub Shots From Studio One" (HB 142) (Heartbeat Records) Check out the site...has nice audio clips of the album. http://www.rounder.com/heartbeat DUB - it's where re-mixing started. Petufina

On 17 Mar 99, Joanna wrote re: Re: (idm) all this dub talk:

quoted 1 line DUB - it's where re-mixing started.

> DUB - it's where re-mixing started.

YES ! a big resounding Amen to that. Laswell? I'm wary of quantity over quality. Anybody who has so many fingers in so many pies and literally seems to churn them out and pop up everywhere, cannot (imo) exercise strict self- inflicted quality control... some of his stuff's okay, some of it isn't. I *

On Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:18:51 -0500 (EST) Arthur Purvis <abpurvis@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> writes:

quoted 17 lines On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, thomas m weibrecht wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, thomas m weibrecht wrote: > >> >Rule 1) if bill laswell plays bass on it, don't buy it. No matter >> >how good the other people are on the CD, it will suck. If it's a >> >whole CD by Bill Laswell, it will be atrocious. >> >> uh huh...its easy to generalize about a body of work that >encompasses >> over 100 releases isnt it? > >In this case, yes. I have heard probably 30 or so Laswell records. >None >of them were good, save the Praxis and Last Exit ones and the >Oscillations >mixes (none of which have anything to do with dub, and in all cases, >none >have much to do with Laswell).

i guess if youre a proponent of statistical sampling you are correct, but thats probably the flaw in the theory...so if approx. 30% of someone's output "sucks", so does the rest...as to the discs you find good: considering laswell produced the records, got the guys together, provided a state-of the art studio and one of the most capable engineers in the business today, id hardly say he didnt have much to do with those releases...

quoted 16 lines Rule 2) The Mad Professor is only good at remixes. He may be the

>> >Rule 2) The Mad Professor is only good at remixes. He may be the >> >absolute top of the pops at it (he is) but don't buy his LPs. >> >> again, a generalization... > >Less so than you think. I've heard many many Mad Professor records >after >being blown away by vs. Massive Attack. > >> >Rule 3) Wordsound is the best functioning label for dubbed out >> >stuff. By far. >> >> guess u havent heard of echo beach and on-u sound to name two... > >I haven't heard of echo beach, but Wordsound blows on-u out of the >water.

goes back to laswell...his hand has been in some way shape or form on 14 of the label's releases...ironic huh?...plus, style scott is the "in house" drummer for the wordsound posse, and his roots are in dub syndicate, one of the on-u stable...ironic huh?

quoted 11 lines Rule 4) Lee Perry is at this point completely worthless. Get the

>> >Rule 4) Lee Perry is at this point completely worthless. Get the >> >boxset, maybe some older LPs, but music like Technomajikal makes me >> >ill. >> >> guess you havent heard "time boom X the devil dead", or "from the >secret >> laboratory"? > >I heard technomajikal and 4 other recent records. They all sucked. >Dunno >if I heard those tracks.

check em out...but they are are on on-u sound...

quoted 28 lines Rule 5) There are several schools of dub reggae, one of which

>> >Rule 5) There are several schools of dub reggae, one of which >> >originated >> >in Jamaica in the 60s, another of which in the UK in the 90s. >Decide >> >what >> >you like (there are of course other styles) - there are records in >> >both >> >that are very good. The former is more smooth, more reggaeish, >more >> >"live" (Lee Perry, Gregory Isaacs (sometimes) etc) the latter >focuses >> >on >> >massive stomping basslines (Rootsman, Alpha Omega, etc). >> > >> >> you make it seem like there is a void of 30 years, which there >isnt...you >> are forgetting the 70/80s, which really fused these two eras >> together...those were the years where dub and reggae expanded their >> attraction into so many other genres (remember the clash?or the >police? >> or grace jones?) and produced classics like black uhuru, steel >pulse, >> burning spear, aswad, sly and robbie's taxxi gang, etc etc etc... > > I said there are other categories. I didn't discuss them. Read >what I >wrote.

dub is a technique more than anything else...its mutations are endless, but the categorization is the same...imo of course... tom w np: john mcentire - reach the rock ost ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, thomas m weibrecht wrote:

quoted 3 lines Rule 1) if bill laswell plays bass on it, don't buy it. No matter

> >> >Rule 1) if bill laswell plays bass on it, don't buy it. No matter > >> >how good the other people are on the CD, it will suck. If it's a > >> >whole CD by Bill Laswell, it will be atrocious.

quoted 7 lines i guess if youre a proponent of statistical sampling you are correct, but

> i guess if youre a proponent of statistical sampling you are correct, but > thats probably the flaw in the theory...so if approx. 30% of someone's > output "sucks", so does the rest...as to the discs you find good: > considering laswell produced the records, got the guys together, provided > a state-of the art studio and one of the most capable engineers in the > business today, id hardly say he didnt have much to do with those > releases...

I said it will be bad if he plays bass on it and it is a dub record (though I will be happy to extend this overly broad statement to his ambient records too). His method of lowend filtering coupled with totally wanky bass playing just kills me everytime - so flat sounding it's unbelievable. Note that people are taking my words and twisting them beyond recognition on this list - I even said if he produced/compiled it, it has a good chance of being alright.

quoted 7 lines I haven't heard of echo beach, but Wordsound blows on-u out of the

> >I haven't heard of echo beach, but Wordsound blows on-u out of the > >water. > > goes back to laswell...his hand has been in some way shape or form on 14 > of the label's releases...ironic huh?...plus, style scott is the "in > house" drummer for the wordsound posse, and his roots are in dub > syndicate, one of the on-u stable...ironic huh?

And the EOE and Laswell + Style Scott are by far the worst things I've heard on that label (and I am a huge fan of Harris and Bernocchi). By far. Dubadelic wasn't so hot either. I'm not sure where that number 14 comes from, because I don't see 14 Wordsound records with Laswell on them. I see 5 + 3 comps. On-U is not a bad label by any means, and I never said anything to even suggest that, so I don't know why you're pointing fingers. I just think Wordsound is way better.

quoted 1 line check em out...but they are are on on-u sound...

> check em out...but they are are on on-u sound...

OK, but I have to admit my wariness of new Perry may prevent me from hearing them until someone I know acquires a copy.

quoted 2 lines dub is a technique more than anything else...its mutations are endless,

> dub is a technique more than anything else...its mutations are endless, > but the categorization is the same...imo of course...

of course. --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:46:31 +0200 "Irene McC" <substar@iafrica.com> writes:

quoted 12 lines On 17 Mar 99, Joanna wrote re: Re: (idm) all this dub talk:

>On 17 Mar 99, Joanna wrote re: Re: (idm) all this dub talk: > >> DUB - it's where re-mixing started. > >YES ! a big resounding Amen to that. > >Laswell? I'm wary of quantity over quality. Anybody who has so >many fingers in so many pies and literally seems to churn them >out and pop up everywhere, cannot (imo) exercise strict self- >inflicted quality control... some of his stuff's okay, some of it >isn't. >

at least he does what he does because he has a passion for music...and the balls to experiment...and he doesnt give a shit if the albums sell or not...ask yourself this: where would we be without him? tom w sp: jofn mcentire - reach the rock ost ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]