IDM Mailing Archive

In a message dated 3/4/99 3:44:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, octorock@doubtful.com writes:

quoted 3 lines i generally feel that if you're not doing something new with music, if

> i generally feel that if you're not doing something new with music, if > you're not speaking with your own voice, or not at the very least taking > an existing 'sound' and pushing it, don't speak at all.

if everyone aheard to this rule then nobody would do anything ever. I'd say about 90% of musicians out there are living in the shadows of others, that's the way it always will be.. not everybody can be innovative like you'd like them to be, that's a totally idealistic way of seeing things, and although maybe it might be nice, theoretically, it's not realistic. Just let people do what they want, there will always be innovators. ~crtrdge

Amen! People don't generally sit down and creat music to up the ante in some battle of who can out-innovate who (well some may), they create music becasue it's fun to do! They take joy in it! Whatever gets you off, do that. If scattering breaks gets you off do that. If mimicking Ae gets you off, do that. If that sound of a washing machine gets you off, record it. Ae are amazingly talented IMHO; having fans who recognize their innovations is merely a by-product of their endeavors. They make music, as everyone should, for themselves. peace Nate On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 MobileWann@aol.com wrote:

quoted 16 lines In a message dated 3/4/99 3:44:06 PM Mountain Standard Time,

> In a message dated 3/4/99 3:44:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, > octorock@doubtful.com writes: > > > i generally feel that if you're not doing something new with music, if > > you're not speaking with your own voice, or not at the very least taking > > an existing 'sound' and pushing it, don't speak at all. > > if everyone aheard to this rule then nobody would do anything ever. I'd say > about 90% of musicians out there are living in the shadows of others, that's > the way it always will be.. not everybody can be innovative like you'd like > them to be, that's a totally idealistic way of seeing things, and although > maybe it might be nice, theoretically, it's not realistic. Just let people do > what they want, there will always be innovators. > > ~crtrdge >

quoted 6 lines i generally feel that if you're not doing something new with music, if

>> > i generally feel that if you're not doing something new with music, if >> > you're not speaking with your own voice, or not at the very least taking >> > an existing 'sound' and pushing it, don't speak at all. >> >> if everyone aheard to this rule then nobody would do anything ever. I'd say >> about 90% of musicians out there are living in the shadows of others, that's

who are these people who have been able to completely detach themselves from all they've experienced, from everything that they'd draw upon when making music? all musicians participate in the history of music, though whether their path through it is recognizable or not seems to be the issue here - to idolize artists who are better at hiding their influences. i don't know where this idea of "artists who are trying to emulate autechre" came from, is there an interview somewhere where someone says that that's what they're doing: _trying_ to copy someone else? it's pretty mean to speak for an artist or a band in this way, to assume their motivations. the only way i can figure someone might come to this conclusion is if they are paying attention to the surface aspects of music with the mind of reducing the thing they are listening to what they think it sounds _like_, and deciding for themselves that intentional similarity is what's going on. the problem with this is that you have to think of the musician as someone who is trying to copy someone else while trying to sound different at the same time. subtracting the bitterness of the original poster, this just sounds like someone exercising their influences. eric

quoted 8 lines Amen! People don't generally sit down and creat music to up the ante in

> Amen! People don't generally sit down and creat music to up the ante in > some battle of who can out-innovate who (well some may), they create music > becasue it's fun to do! They take joy in it! Whatever gets you off, do > that. If scattering breaks gets you off do that. If mimicking Ae gets you > off, do that. If that sound of a washing machine gets you off, record it. > Ae are amazingly talented IMHO; having fans who recognize their > innovations is merely a by-product of their endeavors. They make music, as > everyone should, for themselves.

i too make music for myself. however, when i write a song that easily sounds like a less-good version of someone else, i kind of sink a little bit and it becomes a throwaway track. i may as well have taken a book and crossed out the author's name and replaced it with mine. that's the way i feel. even if no one else ever has to hear it, it still makes me feel like i cheated. and i can't imagine how anyone else would ever feel differently. to me, it's like the kid on class who cheats on the exam and is proud of himself when he gets an A. what the hell? (of all of the electronic musicians i personally know (and there aren't a whole lot of them to tell the truth in philadelphia) they all feel the same way.) -eric --- eric sherman szale@doubtful.com doubtful productions www.doubtful.com

At 09:22 AM 3/5/99 -0800, eric hill wrote:

quoted 5 lines who are these people who have been able to completely detach themselves

>who are these people who have been able to completely detach themselves >from all they've experienced, from everything that they'd draw upon when >making music? all musicians participate in the history of music, though >whether their path through it is recognizable or not seems to be the issue >here - to idolize artists who are better at hiding their influences.

Yes, the recognizability is the issue. There's a difference between seeing the influence of Japanese art on the Impressionists and a paint-by-numbers copy of "Blue Boy". Likewise, there's a difference between hearing the influence of Dub on The Clash and that execrable paint-by-numbers cover of "Heroes" on the Godzilla soundtrack. Personally, I find overtly recognizable influences to be very, VERY distracting. For instance, with the Pixies I found myself trying to identify which Wire song they're ripping off, instead of listening to the music. One of the main reasons I completely bailed on Rock for Electronic music is that Rockers have become completely unable to not wear their influences on their sleeves. The Smiths were the last Rock band I heard that sounded completely fresh, in that I couldn't identify their influences thru their music. Grunge - what a 70's flashblack nightmare! Newbuild & Utd.State 90 completely blew the top of my head off in terms of originality (ok, I hadn't heard any Phuture prior to Newbuild, but Newbuild is still in a league of its own). Then I heard Detroit. Wow. Then I started hearing people like Black Dog, Aphex, Beau Hannant, The Orb, Orbital, Reload, Autechre - they all had (and still have) their own ever-mutating sound, and I couldn't hear their influences in the music. So now I'm buying Skam 12"s and asking myself - uh, which one is the Gescom track? I hear Boards Of Canada and ask - what kind of retro shit is this? (I know BOC is one of the current darlings of this list, but what little I've heard has been far too derivative for my tastes) I can't tell you the last time I heard a Techno artist that sounded fresh & original, which is why I started buying stuff like Squarepusher, TPower, Photek, & Amon Tobin - they've all distanced themselves from their genre(s) in a very IDM way. Yeah, I'm still following my old Techno faves, but the IDM end of the genre is distinctly lacking in new blood, at least to my ears. The recognizability factor has passed my threshold of tolerance. Your threshold might be higher - great for you, because I'm afraid it's going to take an increasingly higher tolerance for derivative music to enjoy the Techno side of IDM. It may be time to start working on the obituary... Che There's nothing that'll make me reach for the MUTE button faster than a Philips commercial...except Alannis Morrisette.

quoted 5 lines music. One of the main reasons I completely bailed on Rock for Electronic

> music. One of the main reasons I completely bailed on Rock for Electronic > music is that Rockers have become completely unable to not wear their > influences on their sleeves. The Smiths were the last Rock band I heard > that sounded completely fresh, in that I couldn't identify their influences > thru their music. Grunge - what a 70's flashblack nightmare!

Ah, you're listening tothe wrong rock music. And even if you aren't, there's still good stuff out there.

quoted 8 lines Ah, you're listening tothe wrong rock music. And even if you aren't,

> > Ah, you're listening tothe wrong rock music. And even if you aren't, > > there's still good stuff out there. > > Polvo can never deny being heavily influenced by Sonic Youth, but are a > great band in their own right. and i'll be damned if i haven't seen > thurston moore wearing a polvo tshirt on more than one occasion. > > Nick

Polvo are 'the shit'.

At 12:56 AM +0000 3/8/99, Giles Ward wrote:

quoted 10 lines Ah, you're listening tothe wrong rock music. And even if you aren't,

>> > Ah, you're listening tothe wrong rock music. And even if you aren't, >> > there's still good stuff out there. >> >> Polvo can never deny being heavily influenced by Sonic Youth, but are a >> great band in their own right. and i'll be damned if i haven't seen >> thurston moore wearing a polvo tshirt on more than one occasion. >> >> Nick > > Polvo are 'the shit'.

i second che's motion. my attention deficit 'disorder' prevent me from enjoying anything but honest attempts at originality. as far as good rock - im sure that such exists, and you have to dig, as we do with this so-called "idm". but this Is idm@hyperreal.org, not rock@hyperreal.org, isnt it? tom