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(idm) mp3s & you

25 messages · 17 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) more long mp3 stuff... · (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-02 07:21joemull (idm) mp3s & you
├─ 1999-03-02 07:47Sam Frank (idm) More long MP3 stuff...
└─ 1999-03-02 08:15szalemandre Re: (idm) mp3s & you
├─ 1999-03-02 17:54ChairCrusher Re: (idm) mp3s & you
│ └─ 1999-03-02 18:08szalemandre Re: (idm) mp3s & you
└─ 1999-03-02 22:59Jeff Davis <pHlow> Re: (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-02 15:10Jeff Mai Re: (idm) mp3s & you
└─ 1999-03-02 17:21szalemandre Re: (idm) mp3s & you
└─ 1999-03-02 17:30eric hill Re: (idm) mp3s & you
└─ 1999-03-02 17:43szalemandre Re: (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-02 17:34Jeff Waye/Ninja Tune Re: (idm) mp3s & you
├─ 1999-03-02 18:47laerm Re: (idm) mp3s & you
│ └─ 1999-03-02 20:53Greg Clow Re: (idm) mp3s & you
│ └─ 1999-03-02 22:28laerm Re: (idm) mp3s & you
├─ 1999-03-02 18:52brian Re: (idm) mp3s & you
└─ 1999-03-02 20:46Greg Clow Re: (idm) mp3s & you
└─ 1999-03-03 01:13Aaron S Michelson Re: (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-02 19:27Re: (idm) mp3s & you
└─ 1999-03-02 19:48eric hill Re: (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-02 20:30Ernesto Ikerd Re: (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-02 21:31mikail gubarev Re: (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-02 23:03Re: (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-02 23:05Kurt B. Pruenner Re: (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-03 15:13Ernesto Ikerd Re: (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-03 17:15Mikhail Zabaluev Re: (idm) mp3s & you
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1999-03-02 07:21joemull>>but I reckon that MP3's are just the >>cassette for the next millenium. > >hopefully, ev
From:
joemull
To:
eric hill ,
Date:
Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:21:19 -0800
Subject:
(idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <005d01be647d$5b32d460$5430a2d1@oemcomputer>
quoted 8 lines but I reckon that MP3's are just the>>but I reckon that MP3's are just the >>cassette for the next millenium. > >hopefully, everybody else will come to the same conclusion, because then >they can shut up about this non-revolution. what is this, the 3rd time in >20 years (8-track, cassette, mp3)? > >eric
Why the majority still doesnt like mp3s: humans still love to own material objects that have been made/manufactured. people can claim a record, cd, or cassette is "art"; they own a "piece." it's always difficult to make consumers adopt a discontinous innovation, much less something they can't hold in their hands. so shifting from owning a "thing" versus a "software file on a computer" is a wacky idea to the majority. when you own mp3s, you don't own anything material, and most people dont like that. nobody could ever mp3 the v/vm pigeon feathers, the lucky kitchen felt patches, the caroliner open wound chorale dirt, watercolor, and bits of glued trash. if media for music must remain, the most logical next of kind would be a rewritable dvd since it holds much more data than a cd yet is still readable by regular cd players. for the next recordable media to become standardized, it should probably be accessible by those who wont throw away their cd players. look at minidisc. great product but who wants to put a md player on the stereo rack and start collecting all over just to expect some other new media to replace it two years from now? Why mp3s are really the way to go: assuming most on this list have pcs, would you buy mp3 files that have video streams for each song, the tracklist and cover art too? (encrypted mp3s from the web, purchased directly from a label's e-commerce site.) barring sound quality of the latest mp3 technology, all mp3s are missing is the neet cover and the runout inscription on the vinyl, right? what if you could upload your mp3s to a cpu based stereo jukebox that stores and reads mp3s? you could have acess to everything on this "music server" when you power it up, instead of starting up your pc & os. then would mp3s be more attractive? i believe that a media free environment is a revolution for two reasons: - nothing needs to be shipped when the music is purchased, you can just buy on the web & download on the spot - if your jukebox has enough memory, you will only need to upload the files to your player once; cd players/turntables require repeated manual changing for playback of different selections/releases/"LPs" (barring cd & vinyl jukeboxes.) Why bother if it's all for free anyway? i think the revolution should eventually happen, but the artists should be concerned about getting paid! the music industry should quit the fight against mp3 files and scramble to encrypt & license recordings. mp3 file ownership should be billable just like software. once a system is squared away, a small label could potentially have the same distribution power as a major label, and consumers may even dare to buy independent music that is different because it will be easier for consumers to find. Am i saying to burn & stop pressing all vinyl? no. matter of fact it would be cool if those who buy the mp3s online could get the real thing sent for a few xtra dollars. that way the "works of art" could still be appreciated, and the limited pieces could still be traded for hundreds of $s.
1999-03-02 07:47Sam FrankPlease don't let this thread degenerate, it's intelligent so far, just make your points, b
From:
Sam Frank
To:
joemull
Cc:
eric hill ,
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 02:47:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
(idm) More long MP3 stuff...
Reply to:
(idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.94.990302022718.27353A-100000@morpheus.cis.yale.edu>
Please don't let this thread degenerate, it's intelligent so far, just make your points, be polite, etc etc. Don't rehash old ground... Re: what ninjeff said... Record shopping is cool, and will keep plenty of people buying records. But, if you live anywhere without good record shops, your alternatives are basically online ordering, buying whatever CDs your local store happens to get in, or getting MP3s. The first option loses the appeal of physicality. if you're not a dj, might as well get an MP3 if you're not an audiophile. the second option is unappealing in its inflexibility if you live an area with crappy stores, or if you realize that the CD just isn't very satisfying. it's just another imperfect digital technology, eminently disposable, replaced by the next thing, like MP3s. Records are the last analog sound technology of any note, and as such they aren't made obsolete by MP3s in the same way CDs are. Getting MP3s is a pain, but i know that at school I have a direct connection that'll get me music in a few minutes. That's nice and convenient, and might overpower the urge to go shopping if i could actually find decent MP3s online. Beyond all of that, I think Walter Benjamin is pertinent right now. In "Art in the Age of mechanical reproduction," he talked about nthe process whereby art (and by extension, music), becomes less about the object, and more about the product. a very select group of people used to go to classical concerts in tuxes, applauded at all the right moments, and were generally forced to fetishize many things extraneous to the music. With mechanical reproduction, benjamin argues, art is given to the masses free of the pretense and pomp of high culture. You go to a noisy show in dirty clothes, listen to a CD in your own home on the cheap. Now, with digital reproduction, the object is further discarded, because it becomes irrelevant. Yeah, the physical presence of a record is nice, but unless you're a DJ, it's in many ways extraneous to the music itself. (And, to all you small labels who try to create fetish object limited editions, Benjamin would say you're living in the past.) Of course, blah blah blah limited editions are nice,a;bum art is nice, fetishes are nice, makes people happy, etc, we've been over it already. But to resist MP3s means that you should acknowledge how much you're fetishizing technology, not music. This all only becomes relevant once MP3 technology becomes more accessible, etc. You know the drill and all the counter-arguments that can be made. Enough outta me Sam
1999-03-02 08:15szalemandre> Why mp3s are really the way to go: i completely support this idea of "media-less" conten
From:
szalemandre
To:
joemull
Cc:
eric hill ,
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:15:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
(idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.990302025242.3780E-100000@juggler>
quoted 1 line Why mp3s are really the way to go:> Why mp3s are really the way to go:
i completely support this idea of "media-less" content. (it's not really media-less since it sits on a hard drive, which is a medium.) but the problem with mp3's is bandwidth. so far it's the best solution i suppose, but there's another interesting format that has a lot of potential: headspace's beatnik. http://www.beatnik.com. it offers cd-quality audio, and the file sizes rarely exceed 100k. go here for a look at what the future of music distribution can look like: http://home.earthlink.net/~phlow/file01.htm it's a link to the 4-song compilation ep called 'file01', first in a series called 'kromode', featuring bochum welt and kim cascone. i just hope that soon a system will be in place that will allow anyone who can create content to be able to distribute it. (proof of concept: the web) -eric --- eric sherman szale@doubtful.com doubtful productions www.doubtful.com
1999-03-02 17:54ChairCrusherOn Tue, 2 Mar 1999, szalemandre wrote: > > Why mp3s are really the way to go: > > i comple
From:
ChairCrusher
To:
Cc:
joemull , eric hill ,
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:54:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.990302114540.24446D-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, szalemandre wrote:
quoted 5 lines Why mp3s are really the way to go:> > Why mp3s are really the way to go: > > i completely support this idea of "media-less" content. (it's not really > media-less since it sits on a hard drive, which is a medium.) but the > problem with mp3's is bandwidth.
The problem I have with mp3 (and I use 'em, love 'em trade 'em etc) is the same problem I have with all digital storage -- once the decoding technology goes obsolete and people stop maintaining the decoders, you have media with no way to extract the content! Suppose 10 years ago I'd written the great american novel on my Commodore Vic 20 and saved it on a cassette? What chance will someone in 20 years have of decoding that? Art retains it's relevence long after the milieu from which it arises is dead and gone. Any medium for storing art ought to be accessible indefinitely. Not a promise computer media can safely make. The Dead Sea Scrolls were written on homemade paper 2k years ago, and they're still readable for the most part. One can only hope that 'modern' digital media will eventually reach that standard of usability in one tenth that amount of time.
1999-03-02 18:08szalemandre> The problem I have with mp3 (and I use 'em, love 'em trade 'em etc) is the > same proble
From:
szalemandre
To:
ChairCrusher
Cc:
joemull , eric hill ,
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:08:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.990302130602.334G-100000@juggler>
quoted 4 lines The problem I have with mp3 (and I use 'em, love 'em trade 'em etc) is the> The problem I have with mp3 (and I use 'em, love 'em trade 'em etc) is the > same problem I have with all digital storage -- once the decoding technology > goes obsolete and people stop maintaining the decoders, you have media with > no way to extract the content!
that's easy: write a tool that converts the file from an obsolete format into a new up-to-date usable format. even in the tracker scene such things exist for converting XM files to IT files. (not like XM is inferior to IT, or vice versa, but rather the tool was designed to allow musicians to work in IT if they wanted to on songs that they started in fastTracker.) it's a simple problem that is certain to be taken care of. -eric --- eric sherman szale@doubtful.com doubtful productions www.doubtful.com
1999-03-02 22:59Jeff Davis <pHlow>On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:15:15 -0500 (EST), szalemandre <octorock@doubtful.com> said: >> Why
From:
Jeff Davis <pHlow>
To:
Date:
Tue, 02 Mar 1999 22:59:02 GMT
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <36ec6adf.349706273@mail.earthlink.net>
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:15:15 -0500 (EST), szalemandre <octorock@doubtful.com> said:
quoted 9 lines Why mp3s are really the way to go:>> Why mp3s are really the way to go: > >i completely support this idea of "media-less" content. (it's not really >media-less since it sits on a hard drive, which is a medium.) but the >problem with mp3's is bandwidth. so far it's the best solution i suppose, >but there's another interesting format that has a lot of potential: >headspace's beatnik. http://www.beatnik.com. it offers cd-quality audio, >and the file sizes rarely exceed 100k. >
beatnik really does offer a lot of potential for digital distribution, especially for electronic based music like idm. check out the headspace site for many examples of what kind of interactive music can be created on this platform.
quoted 5 lines go here for a look at what the future of music distribution can look like:>go here for a look at what the future of music distribution can look like: >http://home.earthlink.net/~phlow/file01.htm >it's a link to the 4-song compilation ep called 'file01', first in a >series called 'kromode', featuring bochum welt and kim cascone. >
case in point, the 4 tracks on FILE01 total 16 minutes and are only 161KB in total. truly emailable music. and for only $6! - support the concept if nothing else. realizing that content is something i appreciate between my ears, not in my hands (geez, i sound like a freakin' m&m's commercial) NP: lowfish: martin c. martin peeeeeeece, -- Jeff Davis pHlow@earthlink.net fn:216.533.6303 fx:216.266.2310 text:2165336303@mobile.att.net pHlow.linx: home.earthlink.net/~phlow/ Bochum Welt: www.bochumwelt.com Rotator Locator: hyperreal.org/music/rotator/
1999-03-02 15:10Jeff Mai> >>but I reckon that MP3's are just the > >>cassette for the next millenium. This is an a
From:
Jeff Mai
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:10:33 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <199903021509.JAA01551@wichita.fn.net>
quoted 2 lines but I reckon that MP3's are just the> >>but I reckon that MP3's are just the > >>cassette for the next millenium.
This is an apt comparision of sound quality.
quoted 1 line Why the majority still doesnt like mp3s:> Why the majority still doesnt like mp3s:
I wouldn't pay for an MP3 (I haven't bought cassettes in a decade either.) The sound quality is not comparable to CD (which is barely good enough.) Don't tell me you can't hear the difference on your Altec computer speakers. Listen through Altec PA speakers (I have) and you'll notice a big difference, even with IDM.
quoted 1 line Why mp3s are really the way to go:> Why mp3s are really the way to go:
MP3s are great for self distribution, but other than that let's not get carried away. These lossy compression technologies as applied to audio are relatively new. It may be physically impossible to duplicate CD quality sound at a 10:1 compression ratio let alone the >100:1 mentioned in another message in this thread. Your ears are sensitive instruments that can't be fooled so easily. Though I don't see it as necessary for IDM, I'm waiting for 24bit/96kHz DVD Audio and Super CD.
1999-03-02 17:21szalemandre> MP3s are great for self distribution, but other than that let's not get > carried away.
From:
szalemandre
To:
Jeff Mai
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:21:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.990302121802.334C-100000@juggler>
quoted 6 lines MP3s are great for self distribution, but other than that let's not get> MP3s are great for self distribution, but other than that let's not get > carried away. These lossy compression technologies as applied to audio are > relatively new. It may be physically impossible to duplicate CD quality > sound at a 10:1 compression ratio let alone the >100:1 mentioned in another > message in this thread. Your ears are sensitive instruments that can't be > fooled so easily.
let's forget about the specific format of MP3. instead, i think what we really want to be talking about is media-less content distribution. or at least, media-independant content. -eric --- eric sherman szale@doubtful.com doubtful productions www.doubtful.com
1999-03-02 17:30eric hill>> MP3s are great for self distribution, but other than that let's not get >> carried away
From:
eric hill
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:30:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.05.9903020924140.14757-100000@shell3.ba.best.com>
quoted 6 lines MP3s are great for self distribution, but other than that let's not get>> MP3s are great for self distribution, but other than that let's not get >> carried away. These lossy compression technologies as applied to audio are > >let's forget about the specific format of MP3. instead, i think what we >really want to be talking about is media-less content distribution. or at >least, media-independant content.
i couldn't care less about that stuff. what's important to me is the ability for people to own their own "printing press," as it were. the particular medium is irrelevant, except to the extent that it aids distribution, which in this case is very helpful. streaming media is by no means limited to the mpeg standard, however, so try not to confuse the issues. eric
1999-03-02 17:43szalemandre> i couldn't care less about that stuff. what's important to me is the > ability for peopl
From:
szalemandre
To:
eric hill
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:43:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.990302124250.334D-100000@juggler>
quoted 6 lines i couldn't care less about that stuff. what's important to me is the> i couldn't care less about that stuff. what's important to me is the > ability for people to own their own "printing press," as it were. the > particular medium is irrelevant, except to the extent that it aids > distribution, which in this case is very helpful. streaming media is by no > means limited to the mpeg standard, however, so try not to confuse the > issues.
that's exactly my point. :) that it doesn't matter what the 'medium' is. -eric --- eric sherman szale@doubtful.com doubtful productions www.doubtful.com
1999-03-02 17:34Jeff Waye/Ninja TuneHey All... >if media for music must remain, the most logical next of kind would be a >rewr
From:
Jeff Waye/Ninja Tune
To:
joemull ,
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 99 13:34:59 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <199903021835.NAA17424@sparkle.Generation.NET>
Hey All...
quoted 7 lines if media for music must remain, the most logical next of kind would be a>if media for music must remain, the most logical next of kind would be a >rewritable dvd since it holds much more data than a cd yet is still readable >by regular cd players. for the next recordable media to become >standardized, it should probably be accessible by those who wont throw away >their cd players. look at minidisc. great product but who wants to put a md >player on the stereo rack and start collecting all over just to expect some >other new media to replace it two years from now?
I agree, and figure DVD is a way more exciting format. Someone was telling me about a King Crimson DVD where you can replace the different players in King Crimson tracks, ie. if you really preferred Bill Bruford's drumming on '21st Century Schizoid Man' from a earlier concert vs. someone else's on another concert, but Levin's bass playing was just so sweet in that other version then you can put Bruford with Levin, etc... I havn't seen/heard it, but in theory it sounds wicked. I figure audio/visual artists over time will be able to come up with amazing stuff with this much room on a disc to work with. ....and well again, it satisfies my need to 'own'.
quoted 12 lines Why mp3s are really the way to go:>Why mp3s are really the way to go: > >assuming most on this list have pcs, would you buy mp3 files that have video >streams for each song, the tracklist and cover art too? (encrypted mp3s from >the web, purchased directly from a label's e-commerce site.) barring sound >quality of the latest mp3 technology, all mp3s are missing is the neet cover >and the runout inscription on the vinyl, right? > >what if you could upload your mp3s to a cpu based stereo jukebox that stores >and reads mp3s? you could have acess to everything on this "music server" >when you power it up, instead of starting up your pc & os. then would mp3s >be more attractive?
No. In my mind I can't get over the owning music that way thing. My computer is great for running a business, but at the end of the day after having spent 10 hours on my computer, I want to go home put on a record and read a book. I don't want to listen to downloaded music while reading something on-line. From a label perpective, the only pratical use of MP3's that I can see is with promotion. Offering a free advance track on a web site kinda thing. Or allowing journalist to get advance copies via MP3 rather than all those last minute courier fees we pay. But that said, dont think that all those journalist aren't going to want a finished 'real' copy also.
quoted 3 lines i believe that a media free environment is a revolution for two reasons:>i believe that a media free environment is a revolution for two reasons: >- nothing needs to be shipped when the music is purchased, you can just buy >on the web & download on the spot
True, but this brings into play my other problem with on-line distribution. Ever tried to find something in a crowded record store? Don't you figure that if everyone has access to releasing their music on-line, it will eventually just be a glut of sub-standard music crowding up the good music. I mean sure that's kinda the case now with standard label/distribution dynamic, but I figure it would be even worse. I suppose good sites will arise like good record stores to weed it out, but I don't know. Love 'em or hate 'em, but good labels are like a big bullshit filter for the most part. Of course everyone is going to think there own music is wicked...but well, sorry, it's not always the case. Anyway, it's quite possible that you can all pull this out 10 years from now and smack me over the head with it along with a big 'I told you so', but I'm not sold on it. Jeff
1999-03-02 18:47laermOn Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Jeff Waye/Ninja Tune wrote: > No. In my mind I can't get over the owni
From:
laerm
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:47:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.990302133730.5229S-100000@unix01>
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Jeff Waye/Ninja Tune wrote:
quoted 5 lines No. In my mind I can't get over the owning music that way thing. My> No. In my mind I can't get over the owning music that way thing. My > computer is great for running a business, but at the end of the day after > having spent 10 hours on my computer, I want to go home put on a record > and read a book. I don't want to listen to downloaded music while reading > something on-line.
i feel the same way, from a different standpoint. maybe i'm just weird, but i look at the computer as not for art. production of, yes, but transmission of, no. watching movies on your computer or listening to music on your cd drive just seems...wrong. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# it's not a case of doing what's right/it's just the way i feel that matters/tell me i'm wrong/i don't really care icq: 5562209
1999-03-02 20:53Greg ClowOn Tue, 2 Mar 1999, laerm wrote: > but i look at the computer as not for art. production o
From:
Greg Clow
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:53:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.BSI.3.96r.990302155054.22701B-100000@shell1.interlog.com>
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, laerm wrote:
quoted 3 lines but i look at the computer as not for art. production of, yes, but> but i look at the computer as not for art. production of, yes, but > transmission of, no. watching movies on your computer or listening to > music on your cd drive just seems...wrong.
Actually, listening to CDs using my 'puter's CD drive is something that I do, mainly at work. Although I do it home occassionaly when I'm doing work on the computer and don't want to disturb my wife with "that techno crap" since the stereo is in a different room. I generally use headphones, though, since my computer speakers are shite. Greg
1999-03-02 22:28laermOn Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Greg Clow wrote: > though, since my computer speakers are shite. ...bu
From:
laerm
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:28:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.990302172805.28022K-100000@unix01>
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Greg Clow wrote:
quoted 1 line though, since my computer speakers are shite.> though, since my computer speakers are shite.
...but they sell computers with surround sustems now. why is beyond me. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# it's not a case of doing what's right/it's just the way i feel that matters/tell me i'm wrong/i don't really care icq: 5562209
1999-03-02 18:52brian> I agree, and figure DVD is a way more exciting format. Someone was > telling me about a
From:
brian
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:52:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.SUN.4.05.9903021043590.7760-100000@coyote.rain.org>
quoted 10 lines I agree, and figure DVD is a way more exciting format. Someone was> I agree, and figure DVD is a way more exciting format. Someone was > telling me about a King Crimson DVD where you can replace the different > players in King Crimson tracks, ie. if you really preferred Bill > Bruford's drumming on '21st Century Schizoid Man' from a earlier concert > vs. someone else's on another concert, but Levin's bass playing was just > so sweet in that other version then you can put Bruford with Levin, > etc... I havn't seen/heard it, but in theory it sounds wicked. I figure > audio/visual artists over time will be able to come up with amazing stuff > with this much room on a disc to work with. ....and well again, it > satisfies my need to 'own'.
i think that, with all new formats, dvd, in it's infancy will be prohibitively expensive on the production side of things to really work well for smaller labels, etc. that being said, i doubt we'll see any sort of dvd thing happening on any grand scale for quite some time. in the meantime, i'm happy to "own" my crates of vinyl and my stacks of cds. as for mp3's, i think they are extremely useful, but not as a replacement for the real thing. they're definetely good for previewing things, to see if you like them, and for emerging artists to get their material to other people in a format that lots of people can hear. i'm all for free and artist-controlled distribution, and i think that in the end, it will signal quite a positive shift in the overall mentality of the music industry. as it is now, you don't really need a record company to get your stuff out there, and like jeff mentioned, we can still pretty much rely on the established companies, such as ninjatune, warp, asphodel, etc, to be a bullshit filter so that we can spend our money wisely, and experiment freely with new music. so there. brian
1999-03-02 20:46Greg ClowOn Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Jeff Waye/Ninja Tune wrote: > From a label perpective, the only pratic
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Greg Clow
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Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:46:09 -0500 (EST)
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Re: (idm) mp3s & you
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Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.BSI.3.96r.990302153454.22701A-100000@shell1.interlog.com>
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Jeff Waye/Ninja Tune wrote:
quoted 5 lines From a label perpective, the only pratical use of MP3's that I can see is> From a label perpective, the only pratical use of MP3's that I can see is > with promotion. Offering a free advance track on a web site kinda thing. > Or allowing journalist to get advance copies via MP3 rather than all > those last minute courier fees we pay. But that said, dont think that all > those journalist aren't going to want a finished 'real' copy also.
Speaking as a part-time journo - I'll give you an Amen on this one, Jeff. Like Peter, I don't have an MP3 player on my computer at home or at work. Aside from occassionally tuning in to some streaming audio (and that's VERY occassionally), I don't use my computer to listen to music. That's what my stereo is for. Not to mention that even with my 56k modem, downloading files in the several meg range is still a pain in the ass. So if a label contacted me and said "We'd like you to do an advance review of this new So-And-So album, you can get it on MP3 from our website", I'd simply reply with "Nope, sorry, I don't do MP3s". If they want the review bad enough, they'll have to send me a cassette (and even that is inconvenient at times), burn me a CDR or send me a finished copy. And then there's the person who wrote to ask if I'd play thier stuff on my radio show. I said I'd be happy to check it out if they send me something. They wrote back and said I could just download the tracks from their website, burn myself a CDR and play that. Like, what the FUCK?!? Something tells me they're probably not getting a lot of airplay with that sort of promo strategy. To paraphrase Mr. Albini - MP3s are just the rich geek's 8-track. Greg
1999-03-03 01:13Aaron S MichelsonExcerpts from mail: 2-Mar-99 Re: (idm) mp3s & you by Greg Clow@interlog.com > To paraphras
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Aaron S Michelson
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, Greg Clow
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Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:13:49 -0500 (EST)
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Re: (idm) mp3s & you
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Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Iqr8nB600Ui90FvY40@andrew.cmu.edu>
Excerpts from mail: 2-Mar-99 Re: (idm) mp3s & you by Greg Clow@interlog.com
quoted 1 line To paraphrase Mr. Albini - MP3s are just the rich geek's 8-track.> To paraphrase Mr. Albini - MP3s are just the rich geek's 8-track.
Hey! The thing that I dig about mp3's is the simple fact that it's software technology developed for an already existing platform. In order to play 8-tracks, you have to have an 8-track player. But to play mp3's, you have to have a computer. While not everyone is blessed with such luck, those of us who have one now also have the ability to listen to music on it. Firm buttocks. Aaron
1999-03-02 19:27DzrtMusic@aol.com> in the meantime, > i'm happy to "own" my crates of vinyl and my stacks > of cds. as for
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Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <46b8ead5.36dc3bad@aol.com>
quoted 6 lines in the meantime,> in the meantime, > i'm happy to "own" my crates of vinyl and my stacks > of cds. as for mp3's, i think they are extremely > useful, but not as a replacement for the real thing. > they're definetely good for previewing things, > to see if you like them,
How about if we sold mp3's on little thumb sized chips that you inserted into a hardware mp3 player.. then that "replacement" factor would go away wouldn't it. hehe It's just people like the idea of having their music encapulated, it somehow brings a satifaction to them, makes them feel like their getting something special somehow.. I need to expand my vocab dammit. that's the thing with all you intellectual elitests, you really pride yourselves on your goddamn vocabularies.. as if vocab meant jack shit. My best friend was like that.. but he wasn't really into music.. unless the situation called for him to be. That prententious fake fuck. ~allen
1999-03-02 19:48eric hill>special somehow.. I need to expand my vocab dammit. that's the thing with all >you intell
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eric hill
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Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:48:13 -0800 (PST)
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Re: (idm) mp3s & you
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Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.05.9903021147030.14757-100000@shell3.ba.best.com>
quoted 5 lines special somehow.. I need to expand my vocab dammit. that's the thing with all>special somehow.. I need to expand my vocab dammit. that's the thing with all >you intellectual elitests, you really pride yourselves on your goddamn >vocabularies.. as if vocab meant jack shit. My best friend was like that.. but >he wasn't really into music.. unless the situation called for him to be. That >prententious fake fuck.
oooookay... eric
1999-03-02 20:30Ernesto Ikerd>you really pride yourselves on your goddamn >vocabularies. wots a 'mp3' ??? is that that
From:
Ernesto Ikerd
To:
Inca Door Mats
Date:
Tue, 02 Mar 1999 14:30:45 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <199903022031.OAA08045@cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com>
quoted 2 lines you really pride yourselves on your goddamn>you really pride yourselves on your goddamn >vocabularies.
wots a 'mp3' ??? is that that lil sports car like a Miata? hmmm. Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-1156 Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems Fort Worth, Texas
1999-03-02 21:31mikail gubarev>I wouldn't pay for an MP3 (I haven't bought cassettes in a decade either.) >The sound qua
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mikail gubarev
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Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:31:39 -0800
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Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <001001be64f4$0ef222a0$cb3e9bcf@brain>
quoted 2 lines I wouldn't pay for an MP3 (I haven't bought cassettes in a decade either.)>I wouldn't pay for an MP3 (I haven't bought cassettes in a decade either.) >The sound quality is not comparable to CD (which is barely good enough.)
it is comparable, you can play mp3's through a PA system in a club and have bass and treble pushed higher than usual and there's no difference. btw, what deficiencies in the sound quality of the CDs are you talking about? 16bit 44.1k is fine. ever heard of 12-bit samplers? if you refer to harmonics (or formants), most people dont even pay attention to anything higher than F3/F4.
quoted 6 lines MP3s are great for self distribution, but other than that let's not get>MP3s are great for self distribution, but other than that let's not get >carried away. These lossy compression technologies as applied to audio are >relatively new. It may be physically impossible to duplicate CD quality >sound at a 10:1 compression ratio let alone the >100:1 mentioned in another >message in this thread. Your ears are sensitive instruments that can't be >fooled so easily.
well there's a 4x lossless wav compression available right now (MKW). i can dig up a url if there's interest. what makes you think that there's no way to make it 10x? human ear is first of all an instrument of perception that is achieved via interpretation of sound. there's no reason why CD-quality sound should be accepted as something sacred. people still buy tapes. in fact, in Russia most of the record distribution is via tapes since the price of CD's is too high and most of vinyl-pressing factories went broke. imho, most of the fuss about the mp3's is the simple fact that the largest record buying market segment (people of 14-25 years of age) is also technology sensitive. they will adapt and start buying less CD's. i'm sure that the sales revenues already went down quite a bit, otherwise you wouldnt see all that RIAA lobbying. someone on KCRW said that mp3's will never be widespread because "people go to record stores to socialize"... well, if i can get the track i want in 10-15 minutes on my cable/ADSL/DSL modem, i wouldnt even bother to go to the store. it's all about the instant gratification.
1999-03-02 23:03DzrtMusic@aol.comIn a message dated 3/2/99 3:53:36 PM Mountain Standard Time, pHlow@earthlink.net writes: >
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,
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Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <680872e8.36dc6e56@aol.com>
In a message dated 3/2/99 3:53:36 PM Mountain Standard Time, pHlow@earthlink.net writes:
quoted 4 lines beatnik really does offer a lot of potential for digital distribution,> beatnik really does offer a lot of potential for digital distribution, > especially for electronic based music like idm. check out the headspace > site for many examples of what kind of interactive music can be created on > this platform.
the only thing is those mac jerks won't make a PC version of the sound bank editor. Not that I like Bill Gates (who's name when added up by it's ascii values equates to 666) but still.. it's fusterating because this is really the best thing I see out there for internet audio and there is no pc version. Furthermore beatnik has alot of really annoying quirks,... such as it tends to fuck up when under pressure (i.e. if lots of notes in quick sequence hit it at once it starts to clip) Also beatnik has no float function, and the play, stop, and pause controls aren't even present on the face, you have to right click on the damn thing and select "Song Mode" just so you can get the play, stop and pause function (with no volume control.. which personally I don't care *too* much about anyways, the only thing I ever would use such a device for is to turn the volume all the way up if it was not already at max) Bottom line, beatnik has alot of potential.. if only it was made by more intuitive people... ~The guy that says fuck you Kid66606 you dirty piece of rat poop
1999-03-02 23:05Kurt B. PruennerGreg Clow wrote: > On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, laerm wrote: > > but i look at the computer as not
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Kurt B. Pruenner
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Those Who Hunt Bleeps
Date:
Wed, 03 Mar 1999 00:05:28 +0100
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <36DC6EB8.FC84E155@jk.uni-linz.ac.at>
Greg Clow wrote:
quoted 10 lines On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, laerm wrote:> On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, laerm wrote: > > but i look at the computer as not for art. production of, yes, but > > transmission of, no. watching movies on your computer or listening to > > music on your cd drive just seems...wrong. > > Actually, listening to CDs using my 'puter's CD drive is something that I > do, mainly at work. Although I do it home occassionaly when I'm doing work > on the computer and don't want to disturb my wife with "that techno crap" > since the stereo is in a different room. I generally use headphones, > though, since my computer speakers are shite.
Heck, since my CD changer once didn't like to return a CD from its intestines I've switched back to my CD-Rom, the only tray-loading player in my room (if you don't count my discman, which you of course don't :)... and since my 'puter is connected to the stereo (heck, if I'm doing my own music with it, I can as well hook it up to the stereo, can't I?), I don't have problems with that... Also, since my card has got TV in, I'm mainly watching the little TV I watch occasionally on my 17" mon, I have no problem with that... heck, a friend of mine even told me that a specific brand of TV cards are currently selling like hell as there's some PC software that lets you decode "Premiere", a encoded pay-TV programme... without paying fees, of course... :) On a different topic, I wanted to invite a few people (from record labels/radio stations et al.) to check out my noodlings (as soon as I think I've got enough ready), but it seems I'll have to do the CDR mail thing --- thanks guys, the postage is gonna kill me, and I haven't got a burner... :( (Would you rather like a WAV?!?) --KurtB.PruennerHaendelstrasse17A-4020Linz/AUSTRIAInCaseOfFire:mailto:kurt.pru enner@jk.uni-linz.ac.atWebsiteStillUnderPermanentDeconstruction:http://www.her mes-gfx.gup.uni-linz.ac.at/http://www.warp-net.com/http://www.buzz2.com/http:/ /www.aphextwin.org/http://www.dirty.org/http://www.userfriendly.org/http://www .segfault.org/np:NightmaresOnWax-PipesHonor(SmokersDelight)
1999-03-03 15:13Ernesto Ikerd>the only thing is those mac jerks won't make a PC version Easy there charlie, maybe you a
From:
Ernesto Ikerd
To:
Inca Door Mats
Date:
Wed, 03 Mar 1999 09:13:40 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <199903031514.JAA23959@cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com>
quoted 1 line the only thing is those mac jerks won't make a PC version>the only thing is those mac jerks won't make a PC version
Easy there charlie, maybe you are using the wrong computer? just a thought.. :) ernie Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-1156 Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems Fort Worth, Texas
1999-03-03 17:15Mikhail ZabaluevPrivet, mikail :) mikail gubarev wrote: > > in fact, in Russia most of the record distribu
From:
Mikhail Zabaluev
To:
mikail gubarev
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 03 Mar 1999 20:15:35 +0300
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <36DD6E37.65409E26@module.vympel.msk.ru>
Privet, mikail :) mikail gubarev wrote:
quoted 3 lines in fact, in Russia most of the record distribution is via tapes since the price> > in fact, in Russia most of the record distribution is via tapes since the price > of CD's is too high and most of vinyl-pressing factories went broke.
Don't tell anyone whether those tapes are legal ;) And CDs are rather affordable, I prefer to get my records on them when I can reach them (I'm ready to believe that none copies of Bola's "Soup" have crossed the Russian boundary). NP: Amon Tobin "Permutation" (on an excellent quality pirate tape ;)) -- Stay tuned, MhZ mailto:mzabal@module.vympel.msk.ru http://www.mu.ru/reverbs