IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 11 lines Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:54:29 EST

>Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:54:29 EST >From: DzrtMusic@aol.com >Subject: Re: (idm) re: classical (lovely) > >> alright. it is now officially my personal mission to change this. >> idm will not be the "new classical." it shall be the new motown. > > >Now you can take it to a literal level, bust out with the ol' websters >dictionary, for the simple purpose of showing off your "intellectual >superiority", and to whom? the people on this list? to yourself? can

anything

quoted 1 line be more obnoxious? Such things are to be expected of mediochre minds.

>be more obnoxious? Such things are to be expected of mediochre minds.

But let

quoted 1 line me present my argument anyways, why not spare the garbage, if simply for

>me present my argument anyways, why not spare the garbage, if simply for

the

quoted 1 line sake of the prosperity!! If you want to nitpick trivial literacies, do

>sake of the prosperity!! If you want to nitpick trivial literacies, do

it in

quoted 3 lines your bathtub while you masturbate where no one will ever know.

>your bathtub while you masturbate where no one will ever know. > >Motown, how would that be interpreted in other people's minds? Idiot.

hey. i said "it is now officially my personal mission to change this. idm will not be the 'new classical.' it shall be the new motown," and you're bringing in dictionaries, "intellectual superiority" and my masturbatorial habits? and you infer from this single statement that my mind is "mediochre?" (sic) dude, this is why you need to listen to more motown. rjck./_ armchairbeatarchitecture@: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~nworth1 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Rjyan C Kidwell wrote:

quoted 7 lines hey. i said "it is now officially my personal mission to change this.

> hey. i said "it is now officially my personal mission to change this. > idm will not be the 'new classical.' it shall be the new motown," and > you're bringing in dictionaries, "intellectual superiority" and my > masturbatorial habits? and you infer from this single statement that > my mind is "mediochre?" (sic) > > dude, this is why you need to listen to more motown.

He called you an idiot. I was the mediocre masturbator, or was my mind mediocre and my masturbation trivial? I forget. All idm is the new classical. All new classical is elevator music. All the old elevator music is full of holes. All the new holes eventually become dives. All the old dives will play idm. -->All idm is full of dives playing idm. -->Idm is full of idm. -->Idm= more idm. -->Idm is self-propagating. -->Idm is alive. -->Idm is conscious. Consciousness implies free will. -->Idm is free. -->No one is buying idm anymore. -->Idm is dead. M. "If there's one thing I can't stand, it's up."

quoted 3 lines idm will not be the "new classical." it shall be the new motown.

> >> idm will not be the "new classical." it shall be the new motown. > [...] > dude, this is why you need to listen to more motown.

Dude, you need to reexamine Motown. When I think of Motown, I think of: * a hit factory in which a corps of talented songwriters were sequestered away to write pop songs that were later assigned to session musicians and any number of carefully trained and choreographed performers; * watered down, catchy but relatively passionless soul music in which verse, chorus, vocal harmony and on-stage presence were more important than musical accomplishment, ingenuity, and anything else, save selling records; * an operation that kept the name Motown after abandoning the Midwest for Los Angeles (not that they were dealing with small- time artists anymore, anyway); * a sugary-sweet, radio-and-TV-friendly contrast to the infinitely more stirring, foot-stomping, teeth-grinding funk and powerful Southern Soul that was emerging around the same time. IDM doesn't parallel Motown at all, at least not when you consider the music it is derived from, how it is made and marketed, who listens to it, and how it compares to what else is out there. I'm reading Simon Reynolds' _Generation Ecstasy_ (that's the US title), and he rather harshly compares IDM to progressive rock, in that it is a reintroduction of traditional notions of musicality into what was previously a 'base' genre --propulsive but simple dance music, in this case-- that was severely in want of structure, melody, complexity, and the deliberate incorporation of influences from 'high art' genres like jazz and classical. Of course, Reynolds also compares Derrick May to Eric Clapton, so you might take that with a grain of salt.

On Tue, 9 Feb 1999 mike@hyperreal.org wrote: | I'm reading Simon Reynolds' _Generation Ecstasy_ (that's the US title), | and he rather harshly compares IDM to progressive rock, in that it is a | reintroduction of traditional notions of musicality into what was | previously a 'base' genre --propulsive but simple dance music, in this | case-- that was severely in want of structure, melody, complexity, and the | deliberate incorporation of influences from 'high art' genres like jazz | and classical. The Face mag ran a similar line about ambient house (which includes a lot of IDM, really, from that period) around '93, comparing specifically Floyd and Orb live shows. I think there definitely is an element of validity to the claim. Basically, I think there are plenty of high art wankers who listen to IDM, and think their music is superior to "normal dance" folks. I think the major problem with the comparison, though, is that you've got something like p-funk or even hip-hop doing a similar thing, but from an essentially emotive and 'low art' approach. So, why not compare IDM to that? Truth be told, I reckon IDM as a genre name is also so loosely defined, and unrelated to any specific scene, that trying to compare all of it to one or the other isn't going to hold. Michael np. 'Long Time Man' - Tim Rose ____________________________________________ "His eyes are TV cameras" http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html

I need to go down to the local Circle K and chug down a big gulp full of slushee syrup.

quoted 1 line dude, this is why you need to listen to more motown.

> dude, this is why you need to listen to more motown.

quoted 11 lines Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:31:54 -0800 (PST)

>Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:31:54 -0800 (PST) >From: mike@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: (idm) re: classical is not for stodgy old wankers! > >> >> idm will not be the "new classical." it shall be the new motown. >> [...] >> dude, this is why you need to listen to more motown. > >Dude, you need to reexamine Motown. >When I think of Motown, I think of: >[...]

damn, you got me. i was trying to make a joke, and well, it seems i have failed again. you see, i make these jokes and all but, really, inside, i'm so sad. dude, i'm hurting so bad... bad, bad. i'm only *pretending* i'm glad, glad, glad. and i've got to tell you, there are some sad things known to man, but not much sadder than... the tears... of a clown. that's me, a clown. and those are my tears, those tears coming out of my eyes. please help me. rjck./_ armchairbeatarchitecture@: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~nworth1 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

quoted 8 lines damn, you got me. i was trying to make a joke, and well, it seems i

> damn, you got me. i was trying to make a joke, and well, it seems i > have failed again. you see, i make these jokes and all but, really, > inside, i'm so sad. dude, i'm hurting so bad... bad, bad. i'm only > *pretending* i'm glad, glad, glad. and i've got to tell you, there are > some sad things known to man, but not much sadder than... > the tears... > > of a clown.

i hate you you clown. and your stupid frown.

quoted 7 lines damn, you got me. i was trying to make a joke, and well, it seems i

> damn, you got me. i was trying to make a joke, and well, it seems i > have failed again. > > <snip> > > please help me. >

well there you go using humor w/out any warning or anything. next time how about starting the post w/ something like: "this post contains elements of humor and other items that may not be entirely based on fact or reason. in fact at times it may be downright surreal. the poster accepts no liability for any injury, loss or disability arising from the inability of the reader to use this post in the manner that was intended." short form >> "wheee, duck. here comes irony!" of course, if you ask he'll rdj he'll tell you he's the new mozart. when he isn't building his own samplers out of old tea kettles and bedsprings that is. which would make him the new nutter in the shed down the street. -martin

quoted 4 lines damn, you got me. i was trying to make a joke, and well, it seems i

>> damn, you got me. i was trying to make a joke, and well, it seems i >> have failed again. you see, i make these jokes and all but, really, >> inside, i'm so sad. dude, i'm hurting so bad... bad, bad. i'm only >> *pretending* i'm glad, glad, glad. and i've got to tell you, there

are

quoted 6 lines some sad things known to man, but not much sadder than...

>> some sad things known to man, but not much sadder than... >> the tears... >> of a clown. > >i hate you you clown. >and your stupid frown.

i think those were the two lines that Lance, the fourth Miracle, had written for the song, but that Smokey refused to sing, which all of course led to Lance's eventually leaving the group and moving to Ohio to write tons of record reviews for a genre completely unrelated to Motown, and, and this is the really ironic bit, all the while hiding his bitter, bitter true feelings about the music industry under a mask of trainspotterish enthusiasm. it's all true, folks. every word of it. rjck./_ armchairbeatarchitecture@: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~nworth1 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]