IDM Mailing Archive

Hi all, Wondering what people are thinking about the new Wagon Christ full-length. I just picked up a copy yesterday -- which i think was the domestic release date anyway. I know that there has been some talk about it, but just curious what others think. In light of Throbbing Pouch, it seems as though he collected a lot of fun wacky material and lots of fun new toys and gadgets just before Throbbing Pouch was recorded . . . But now this new release seems like he's learned more about his new toys ... same style, same general feel, but fuller and more mature (dare i say??). Curious if others think the same, sean.

Tally Ho! is one killer record. With every Luke Vibert release I am reminded how much fun can be had with a bunch of vinyl records and a sampler (well throw some synths in too for good measure). I love Ae type stuff, but when it becomes too much abstraction, I always return to the collage work of Vibert and Amon (and others). You know what I mean, it's not about treating the samples, it's about how they interact with each in certain contexts. I believe that often that takes more skill than delving into abstraction... My favorite art is the kind filled with contrasts, and Luke Vibert's work is no excpetion. Never have I heard such meticulous attention to detail sound so care-free. His records consistently create a good vibe, reminding the listener not to take the artist too seriously, because after all he's just dorking around with his sampler and a collection of records. DJ shadow eat your heart out. peace Nate On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Sean McGonagle wrote:

quoted 18 lines Hi all,

> Hi all, > > Wondering what people are thinking about the new Wagon Christ full-length. > I just picked up a copy yesterday -- which i think was the domestic release > date anyway. > > I know that there has been some talk about it, but just curious what others > think. > > In light of Throbbing Pouch, it seems as though he collected a lot of fun > wacky material and lots of fun new toys and gadgets just before Throbbing > Pouch was recorded . . . But now this new release seems like he's learned > more about his new toys ... same style, same general feel, but fuller and > more mature (dare i say??). > > Curious if others think the same, > sean. >

On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Nate Harrison [Toshok Laboratories] wrote:

quoted 3 lines My favorite art is the kind filled with contrasts, and Luke Vibert's work

> My favorite art is the kind filled with contrasts, and Luke Vibert's work > is no excpetion. Never have I heard such meticulous attention to detail > sound so care-free.

Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples are in tune and in key? Che

Che wrote:

quoted 2 lines Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples

> Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples > are in tune and in key?

The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that someone please kindly take me out back and kindly put a big-assed slug in the back of my head. pretty damned glad to have never taken courses in music theory, -d.w.

It doesn't have anything to do w/ music theory. Some people are physically sensitive to it. Sometimes I find something out of key to be painful. No shit. I heard a blind guy interviewed on NPR once who had to listen to just-tempered instruments, because well-tempered ones were too out of tune for him. Even then, he found some classical composers to be discordant. Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many tone-deaf people making techno. There are 3 tracks on Big Soup that I can't listen to, so I think the question is valid. Che On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Dave Walker wrote:

quoted 15 lines Che wrote:

> Che wrote: > > > Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples > > are in tune and in key? > > The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that > someone please kindly take me out back and kindly > put a big-assed slug in the back of my head. > > pretty damned glad to have never > taken courses in music theory, > -d.w. > > >

quoted 3 lines Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many

> Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many > tone-deaf people making techno. There are 3 tracks on Big Soup that I > can't listen to, so I think the question is valid.

Never ever ever listen to any of my tracks then :) brap@sonic.net icq_12645306 http://www.sonic.net/~brap/ coming sooner than later: sfwd0004 - pre-mil·len·ni·um soundscapes 12" our future has never been so frightening: http://williamshatner.com/

On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Che wrote: | Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many | tone-deaf people making techno. There are 3 tracks on Big Soup that I | can't listen to, so I think the question is valid. Umm, do you mean tone-deaf, or not having perfect pitch? Tally Ho! sounds to me as tuned as any "pop" record I've heard. He also doesn't blatantly play things in different keys, like he has, if that's what you mean from a non-music theory perspective. Michael ____________________________________________ "Also, he has automatic evasion devices" http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html

On 17 Oct 98, Dave Walker wrote re: Re: (idm) Tally Ho!:

quoted 6 lines The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that

> The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that > someone please kindly take me out back and kindly > put a big-assed slug in the back of my head. > > pretty damned glad to have never > taken courses in music theory,

Jeez, I'm trying to force my two bits of jaw together. I * no : Fila Brazillia - Powerclown (yip, it's in tune :-))

On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Dave Walker wrote: | The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that | someone please kindly take me out back and kindly put a big-assed slug | in the back of my head. | pretty damned glad to have never | taken courses in music theory, Music theory doesn't do that to you, just as being able to play a guitar quickly doesn't mean you will play noodly solos. Maybe there is an overlap in who wants to learn that kind of stuff, but one doesn't automatically mean the other. As with all kinds of information, you can collect it cos you want to find out more about what you already like, or you can collect it cos you have been told it's important to do so. Hmm false dichotomy, but never mind. Michael np. 'Stuck inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again' - Bob Dylan (it rocks ;) ____________________________________________ "Also, he has automatic evasion devices" http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html

On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Dave Walker wrote:

quoted 11 lines Che wrote:

> Che wrote: > > > Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples > > are in tune and in key? > > The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that > someone please kindly take me out back and kindly > put a big-assed slug in the back of my head. > > pretty damned glad to have never > taken courses in music theory,

I HAVE taken courses in Music Theory, and I never hear 'out of tune' samples in Luke Vibert's stuff, so maybe I have a wider concept of in tune and in key than Che. What Charlie Parker brought to jazz back in the 40's was extending the concept of what was in key. Hip Hoppers and adventerous samplers make things that 'sound right' even though they're juxtaposing things that are nominally in different keys. To some extent they're plowing the same row as Charlie Parker was. It all comes from the harmonic series. A C major chord is C-E-G, C Minor is C-Eb-G. If you add the flat seven (C-E-G-Bb) then you have a C7, the basic blues chord. If you add the sharp seven (C-E-G-B) then you have the basic jazz chord. What if you keep going up the chordal scale? You can have a 9th chord (C-E-G-D) or flat 9th (C-E-G-C#) or 11th (C-E-G-F) or 13th (C-E-G-A). Now, think on this: If C is your root key, and you start adding notes to the chord at the 7th, you have the C triad (C-E-G) and add in the seventh, nineth and eleventh (B D F) then you have a C chord up against a B diminished chord. B to F is a Tritone, or 'diminished' 5th, which is a dischord. But it can work harmonically to the ear if it's done right. Furthermore if you add the 9th, 11th, and 13th to a C major chord, you're playing (C-E-G) against (D F A) which is a D minor chord. But it can work to your ear, even though you're playing chords in two different keys together! So maybe that's too analytical for you, but the fact remains that the concept of 'in key' and 'out of key' are fuzzy concepts. And if you want to talk about 'in tune' and 'out of tune' I can throw up a similar argument about the concept of intonation. Did you know that 95% of western music is out of tune, and that it's done that way on purpose?

quoted 3 lines | Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many

> | Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many > | tone-deaf people making techno. There are 3 tracks on Big Soup that I > | can't listen to, so I think the question is valid.

maybe your'e listening to the wrong music chum, maybe a bit of AOR or musos like joe satriani or some other mullet headed fretwanker.. for god's sake...I don't know what's worse....this thread or the "philosophy behind the squarepusher title" thread.......even when aless posted a valid explanation from the MAN HIMSELF there were people still ignoring it and posting their own tuppence worth.. oh, I forgot the missing braille thread as well... conduct your anal babblings off list huh??? you lot should get out more often or get into some other form of obsessive fandom... Bri Eph

On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Brian Flanagan wrote:

quoted 16 lines maybe your'e listening to the wrong music chum, maybe a bit of AOR or musos

> maybe your'e listening to the wrong music chum, maybe a bit of AOR or musos > like joe satriani or some other mullet headed fretwanker.. > > for god's sake...I don't know what's worse....this thread or the "philosophy > behind the squarepusher title" thread.......even when aless posted a valid > explanation from the MAN HIMSELF there were people still ignoring it and > posting their own tuppence worth.. > > oh, I forgot the missing braille thread as well... > > conduct your anal babblings off list huh??? > > > > you lot should get out more often or get into some other form of obsessive > fandom...

a punk attitude if i ever heard one. knowledge represents the establishment, the only ones well-off enough to be educated and have formal music training. and the establishment is the force behind keeping all good music down, what with their "rules" and "theories". at least that's the impression i'm getting from this particular standpoint. fuck both, i say - if it's good, let me hear it. i have had formal musical training, i understand key and tonality, but sometimes there's that one hook or element of a song that will keep me coming back, regardless of whether it's "correct" or not. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# i nostri sogni sono sempre presenti

me good pal Bri Mr Moo wrote: -

quoted 4 lines for god's sake...I don't know what's worse....this thread or the "phil

> for god's sake...I don't know what's worse....this thread or the "philosophy >behind the squarepusher title" thread.......even when aless posted a valid >explanation from the MAN HIMSELF there were people still ignoring it and >posting their own tuppence worth..

What I find much more interesting about Tom's album cover, is the graphics on the front, where a sheet of metal/glass? has a pushbutton switch on which is wired up to a mike ... was this sound of the button being switched on, and the subsequent reverberations on the metal taped and used on the album? ohh and for the person who mailed me bout Aphex at 333, ( sorry accidentally deleted your email ooops!), could you resend it and I'll reply? Aless (who thought she'd better put her full name up on her settings as apparently, so a little bird from oop North told me, some blokes were going all "ooo err missus" after my little Squarepusher at Anokha review where, in my buzzin excitement after the night, I inadvertently let slip, that I thought Tom was "lookin flippin full-on gorgeous phwoooar" and they were all tinkin that this was written by a bloke! :) Can't see what's wrong with a bloke sayin that too tho, there must be some gay lads on da list ... but no, Aless is definitely NOT a geezer, thank you verry much! tho can't see why it should matter on a list like this! )

At 11:06 PM 10/17/98 +0100, Brian Flanagan wrote:

quoted 2 lines maybe your'e listening to the wrong music chum, maybe a bit of AOR or musos

>maybe your'e listening to the wrong music chum, maybe a bit of AOR or musos >like joe satriani or some other mullet headed fretwanker..

If you could listen with my ears, you'd realize what an ass you're being. Believe me, if the physical unease was something I could turn off, I would. I'm not asking that every review include an evaluation of sample tuning, I'm just asking that if you use a common term like "well-produced", then use it correctly. I thought the application of this term to Vibert's music may be suspect due to past experience. If we can't agree on definitions of musical terms, then what's the point of writing about music? For those waiting for an id on the tracks I have problems with, please be patient - I'm not sure if I lent my copy of Big Soup out, misplaced it, or stuck it in the wrong case. I'll keep looking.

quoted 4 lines for god's sake...I don't know what's worse....this thread or the "phil

> for god's sake...I don't know what's worse....this thread or the "philosophy >behind the squarepusher title" thread.......even when aless posted a valid >explanation from the MAN HIMSELF there were people still ignoring it and >posting their own tuppence worth..

quoted 3 lines oh, I forgot the missing braille thread as well...

>oh, I forgot the missing braille thread as well... > >conduct your anal babblings off list huh???

...as if you ever contribute anything to this list. Put up or shut up. If you don't like the discourse, then come up with something better. Bought an IDM record lately? Review it. Seen a show? Review it. Found out about a new release? Post some info. Otherwise, quitcherbitchin. Che

quoted 8 lines oh, I forgot the missing braille thread as well...

> >oh, I forgot the missing braille thread as well... > > > >conduct your anal babblings off list huh??? > > ...as if you ever contribute anything to this list. Put up or shut up. If > you don't like the discourse, then come up with something better. Bought > an IDM record lately? Review it. Seen a show? Review it. Found out > about a new release? Post some info. Otherwise, quitcherbitchin.

Hey monkey, watch how you step to the NIGHTRAIDER. He contributes something this list cannot survive without, MUSIC! Don't waste your time with reviews Bri...just keep pumping out the jams, SON! Gil said...

quoted 5 lines hey Peter, or anyone else, do you know if this is available on VINYL?

> hey Peter, or anyone else, do you know if this is available on VINYL? > I love both Bisk albums and wished I bought them on wax instead of > disc..... > (sorry that's my preference) > gilly

Um there are 3 Bisk full length records out now man. I got the third one today its called Ticklish Matters. There is a 4th on the way. Speaking of the Operation...

quoted 2 lines P.S. Does anyone know of any movies similar to this one and where they

> P.S. Does anyone know of any movies similar to this one and where they > can be found?

Try the back room of your local video shop hehe... Actually there is quite a thriving underground of people who trade high-art pixelvision videos of themselves engaged in various sexual activity. Compilations of said tapes have been known to come up for sale on the internet for extravagant prices from time to time. It's rumored the twin has quite a collection stashed away in his vault, but you didn't hear it from me. Somebody say how the Schematic show in NY was the other night, nobody has nothing to say about it? Doing anything to keep from doing homework.... Gonzi|Fresh|Merchan Orange Fax Orange County, CA PO Box 253 (714)993-9248 USA Atwood, CA 92811

On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Gonzi Merchan wrote:

quoted 2 lines It's rumored the twin has quite a collection stashed away in his vault,

> It's rumored the twin has quite a collection stashed away in his vault, > but you didn't hear it from me.

eno makes no bones about loving porn. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# i nostri sogni sono sempre presenti

On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, laerm wrote:

quoted 1 line eno makes no bones about loving porn.

> eno makes no bones about loving porn.

Very true. In fact, the title Here Come The Warm Jets refers to a somewhat perverse sexual activity that begins with "golden" and ends with "showers". Greg

On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Greg Clow wrote:

quoted 3 lines Very true. In fact, the title Here Come The Warm Jets refers to a somewhat

> Very true. In fact, the title Here Come The Warm Jets refers to a somewhat > perverse sexual activity that begins with "golden" and ends with > "showers".

oh, yes. also, if you own the box sets, the nudie playing cards on there are from some of his nudie playing card decks. he claims the largest collection of decks of nudie playing cards in the world. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# i nostri sogni sono sempre presenti

quoted 2 lines eno makes no bones about loving porn.

> >> eno makes no bones about loving porn.

No pun intended, presumably? 3

Gonzi wrote:-

quoted 6 lines Actually there is quite a thriving underground of people who trade

>Actually there is quite a thriving underground of people who trade >high-art pixelvision videos of themselves engaged in various sexual >activity. Compilations of said tapes have been known to come up for sale >on the internet for extravagant prices from time to time. It's rumored >the twin has quite a collection stashed away in his vault, but you >didn't hear it from me.

Well, if any of Aphex's ex girlfriends are on this list, I bet they'll be shudderin reading this, only hope he got their permission first! What a nightmare to go out with a bloke as totally techied-up as Aphex, you'd be gettin all para that he'd have secret vid cameras all over da place and microphones to tape all da soundz, for him to have a lark & a giggle samplin them! I'm shudderin just at the thought of it, and I aint been anywhere near his bloomin bank, I can assure you! errrr Phew! Aless

On Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:41:38 +0100 (BST), you wrote:

quoted 7 lines Well, if any of Aphex's ex girlfriends are on this list, I bet they'll be

>Well, if any of Aphex's ex girlfriends are on this list, I bet they'll be >shudderin reading this, only hope he got their permission first! What a >nightmare to go out with a bloke as totally techied-up as Aphex, you'd be >gettin all para that he'd have secret vid cameras all over da place and >microphones to tape all da soundz, for him to have a lark & a giggle >samplin them! I'm shudderin just at the thought of it, and I aint been >anywhere near his bloomin bank, I can assure you! errrr Phew!

so does anyone know why tom jenkinson moved to sheffield? i heard it was girl trouble <waves> Subconscious Geography http://www.sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk +/sale +/cdr

At 18:51 1998-10-20 GMT, labour saving device wrote:

quoted 2 lines so does anyone know why tom jenkinson moved to sheffield? i heard it

>so does anyone know why tom jenkinson moved to sheffield? i heard it >was girl trouble

See subject Franz new email: marino@ambientsoho.com - http://gargamel.com/frankie -- WHEN DOGMA ENTERS THE BRAIN, ALL INTELLECTUAL ACTIVITY CEASES. - Robert Anton Wilson

Siliconvortex, artist@sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk wrote:-

quoted 7 lines Well, if any of Aphex's ex girlfriends are on this list, I bet they'll be

>Well, if any of Aphex's ex girlfriends are on this list, I bet they'll be >shudderin reading this, only hope he got their permission first! What a >nightmare to go out with a bloke as totally techied-up as Aphex, you'd be >gettin all para that he'd have secret vid cameras all over da place and >microphones to tape all da soundz, for him to have a lark & a giggle >samplin them! I'm shudderin just at the thought of it, and I aint been >anywhere near his bloomin bank, I can assure you! errrr Phew!

quoted 2 lines so does anyone know why tom jenkinson moved to sheffield? i heard it

>so does anyone know why tom jenkinson moved to sheffield? i heard it >was girl trouble

I had thought IDM stood for "Intelligent" Dance music, a forum for musical discussion, where there would be no place for ignorant bigotry, prejudice or misogyny, obviously I was well mistaken! aless

On Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:13:38 +0100 (BST), you wrote: dear dear aless, calm down now, you seem to have misunderstood let me explain... <in private> <waves> Subconscious Geography http://www.sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk +/sale +/cdr