IDM Mailing Archive

OK, I've kept my mouth shut while people go off on how pretentious the Wire is, how trendy Jockey Slut is, and even had the temerity to get on Urb's jock. All I have to say is step the hell back. YOU try putting out an expensive color magazine, attract advertisers, and attract enough readers to justify your ad prices, etc. When I read those mags, I'm struck not by their shortcomings, but by how much they GET RIGHT, despite being pulled several different directions at once by the forces that would put them out of business. Look at it this way. You may be the ultra-cool, tastefully pierced art fag who's down with the true players, but in order for your precious Boards of Canada or Jega or Basic Channel to make a living, people who you might think are lame, stupid or bourgeois have to buy their record too. The same goes for magazines. [As an aside, the last issue of the Wire I saw had an excellent article on Basic Channel, that at least takes seriously what they do.] As far as getting more information from 'zines, that's fine too -- do what you have to do. But I like Jockey Slut and the Wire, and appreciate the job they try to do. If they aren't perfect, well, neither am I.

On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:29:05 -0500 (CDT), you wrote:

quoted 3 lines All I have to say is step the hell back. YOU try putting out an expensive

>All I have to say is step the hell back. YOU try putting out an expensive >color magazine, attract advertisers, and attract enough readers to justify >your ad prices, etc.

so what, it's still shite <waves> Subconscious Geography http://www.sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk +/sale +/cdr

***I agree wholeheartedly with what you've written here. Thanks for saying it. Andrew Chaircrusher wrote:

quoted 23 lines OK, I've kept my mouth shut while people go off on how pretentious the

> OK, I've kept my mouth shut while people go off on how pretentious the > Wire is, how trendy Jockey Slut is, and even had the temerity to get on > Urb's jock. > > All I have to say is step the hell back. YOU try putting out an expensive > color magazine, attract advertisers, and attract enough readers to justify > your ad prices, etc. When I read those mags, I'm struck not by their > shortcomings, but by how much they GET RIGHT, despite being pulled several > different directions at once by the forces that would put them out of > business. > > Look at it this way. You may be the ultra-cool, tastefully pierced art fag > who's down with the true players, but in order for your precious Boards of > Canada or Jega or Basic Channel to make a living, people who you might think > are lame, stupid or bourgeois have to buy their record too. The same goes for > magazines. > > [As an aside, the last issue of the Wire I saw had an excellent article > on Basic Channel, that at least takes seriously what they do.] > > As far as getting more information from 'zines, that's fine too -- do what > you have to do. But I like Jockey Slut and the Wire, and appreciate the > job they try to do. If they aren't perfect, well, neither am I.

-- Andrew Duke Cognition Audioworks 1096 Queen St #123 Halifax NS Canada B3H 2R9 TEL 902-422-7132 FAX 902-422-1262 http://www.globalserve.net/~cognition (Cognition Audioworks/In The Mix: listen : read) In The Mix show 575: Richie Hawtin/Neil Landstrumm/Merrick Brown In The Mix show 576: John Tejada/Damon Wild/D.JeRome playing now: John Tejada:Little Green Lights And Four Inch Faders:A13 world premiere playing next: Low Res:Approximate Love Boat:Plug Research world premiere

Chaircrusher wrote:

quoted 1 line

>

YOU try putting out an expensive

quoted 5 lines color magazine, attract advertisers, and attract enough readers to justify

> color magazine, attract advertisers, and attract enough readers to justify > your ad prices, etc. When I read those mags, I'm struck not by their > shortcomings, but by how much they GET RIGHT, despite being pulled several > different directions at once by the forces that would put them out of > business.

wooo! at last -- a note of sensible, hard-headed realism amidst the fantasyland pontifications of all the authenticity-poseurs on this list!

quoted 3 lines Look at it this way. You may be the ultra-cool, tastefully pierced art fag

> > Look at it this way. You may be the ultra-cool, tastefully pierced art fag > who's down with the true players,

uh... _art fag_? please ignore the compliment above. But I like Jockey Slut and the Wire, and appreciate the

quoted 1 line job they try to do. If they aren't perfect, well, neither am I.

> job they try to do. If they aren't perfect, well, neither am I.

agreed. jeff

On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, jeff salamon wrote:

quoted 6 lines Chaircrusher wrote:

> Chaircrusher wrote: > > Look at it this way. You may be the ultra-cool, tastefully pierced art fag > > who's down with the true players, > > uh... _art fag_? please ignore the compliment above. >

That's a term in currency where I live that doesn't convey any hostility towards gays. In fact I heard it first from gay friends. Just as I learned the epithet D.C. (or "Death Cunt") from fully consciousness-raised female friends. So if I've offended the PC police, it wasn't my intention to belittle any oppressed minority. Except maybe the art fags in question. And for those of you beyond the reach of that turn of phrase, 'art fag' refers to the black-wearing espresso-drinking maori-armband-tatooed black lipsticked clove-cig-smoking sort of tragically hip individual that infests college towns in the US. You'll see them coming out of Kurosawa films, their brows knitted in concentration as they attempt to come up with the bon mot to drop over their apres-cinema pernod. They can be distinguished by how completely uncontaminated they are by any sense of humor, and by how DEADLY seriously they take themselves. I'm from the midwest, and we like people that smile at strangers and have firm handshakes. They are the anti-art fags.

I think my point was missed in all this. I was not trying to degrade wire. The reason I brought it up was that the VVM guys decided to slag jockeyslut at a time when they were on the cover of wire. I just wanted to point out the hypocritical nature of such a statement. It is like the pot calling the kettle black. Sometimes you can be so anti-establishment you forget your sensibilites and begin to believe your own hype. keep it real. -daniel

quoted 6 lines I think my point was missed in all this. I was not trying to degrade

> I think my point was missed in all this. I was not trying to degrade > wire. The reason I brought it up was that the VVM guys decided to slag > jockeyslut at a time when they were on the cover of wire. I just wanted > to point out the hypocritical nature of such a statement. It is like the > pot calling the kettle black. Sometimes you can be so anti-establishment > you forget your sensibilites and begin to believe your own hype.

CALLING ALL KETTLES, CALLING ALL KETTLES, I'M A LITTLE BLACK POT, AND IF YOU'RE A KETTLE I'M CALLING YOU BLACK ******* "ALL MAGAZINES THAT ARE WRITTEN FOR COMMERCIAL GAIN ARE RUN BY THE MAJOR RECORD LABELS" (that includes WIRE and Jockey Slut) the fact that the Wire searched us out, conducted an interview and put us on the cover (to our surprise more than yours) at least gives us, and i'm sure other small independent labels faith in some aspects of the major press. We saw the interview as an opportunity to give not just ourselves, but lots of people a chance of a little exposure (which we feel we did)__ don't you think the article takes the PISS out of the big labels ??? We started VVM with £300 and have struggled against the flow ever since ,,, all the majors spend more than that on one business lunch//////////---------------------> if you think we're believing any of the WIRE hype/tripe then you don't know us very well or it is YOU WHO IS BELIEVING THE HYPE AND CHANGING YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS US ????,,,,////_ as far as Jockey Slut goes have you compared the early issues to the latter ones recently ????? noticed the huge swing towards commerciality ????? basically magazines grow etc. and the majors become interested and the carrots are dangled... It's up to the magazines whether or not they decide to take the carrots. In Jockey Sluts case they've not only taken the carrots but they've bought a full fruit and Veg Stand including a cockney barrow boy. having said that i'm not slagging off anybody who buys it or reads and enjoys it___i used to enjoy some of the older issues, but the newer ones just leave a sour taste in my mouth................... and as for the 7" releases the magazine has planned, they feature all established names, will receive lots of free press in their own magazine (single of the month anybody for the next issue ????) so they're taking a real big risk there then. ANYWAY IF YOU ARE A KETTLE YOU'RE BLACK. YOURS THE POT ps. does anybody remember the SLUT TRAX 12" jockey slut put out, it had remixes from Dave Clarke, Salt City Orchestra and Fatboy Slim....... bet that was good then ;-)

On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, v/vm wrote:

quoted 9 lines the fact that the Wire searched us out, conducted an interview and

> the fact that the Wire searched us out, conducted an interview and > put us on the cover (to our surprise more than yours) at least gives > us, and i'm sure other small independent labels faith in some aspects > of the major press. We saw the interview as an opportunity to give > not just ourselves, but lots of people a chance of a little > exposure (which we feel we did)__ don't you think the article takes > the PISS out of the big labels ??? We started VVM with ?300 and have > struggled against the flow ever since ,,, all the majors spend more > than that on one business lunch//////////--------------------->

i, for one, believe that subverting the system from the inside is loads of fun. three cheers for V/VM: hip, hip, hurrah! while we're on the topic, i see on the new soleilmoon catalog there is a comp coming out with dj speedranch^jansky noise on it. i'll be buying that one... * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# "People are ecstatic about getting into the mainstream. I think it's a little bit stupid, since the mainstream is pretty muddy..." Glenn Gould

quoted 14 lines "ALL MAGAZINES THAT ARE WRITTEN FOR COMMERCIAL

> "ALL MAGAZINES THAT ARE WRITTEN FOR COMMERCIAL > GAIN ARE RUN BY THE MAJOR RECORD LABELS" > (that includes WIRE and Jockey Slut) > > the fact that the Wire searched us out, conducted an interview and > put us on the cover (to our surprise more than yours) at least gives > us, and i'm sure other small independent labels faith in some aspects > of the major press. We saw the interview as an opportunity to give > not just ourselves, but lots of people a chance of a little > exposure (which we feel we did)__ don't you think the article takes > the PISS out of the big labels ??? We started VVM with ?300 and have > struggled against the flow ever since ,,, all the majors spend more > than that on one business lunch//////////---------------------> >

but see the fallacy here is that you help propigate what you hate about these magazines. They need controversy and they need to be hip. So what do they do? they go and get some art terrorists and stick them on the cover. So now they can appear legit and still be able to talk about the latest Capatain Beefheart bootleg. No kidding aside. It was hard to take the article seriously because of the magazine you were in. Wire (in the editorials even) continues to discount electronic music while always making sure to spotlight the flavor of the month. And you beleive it or not are the flavor of the month. So who is using who here?

quoted 4 lines if you think we're believing any of the WIRE hype/tripe then you

> if you think we're believing any of the WIRE hype/tripe then you > don't know us very well or it is YOU WHO IS BELIEVING THE > HYPE AND CHANGING YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS US ????,,,,////_ >

naw, I still think you are a bunch of crazy blokes who produce very interesting works. I feel though that you have your blinders on and are not looking at the big picture.

quoted 9 lines as far as Jockey Slut goes have you compared the early issues to the

> as far as Jockey Slut goes have you compared the early issues to the > latter ones recently ????? noticed the huge swing towards > commerciality ????? basically magazines grow etc. and the majors > become interested and the carrots are dangled... > It's up to the magazines whether or not they decide to take the > carrots. In Jockey Sluts case they've not only taken the carrots but > they've bought a full fruit and Veg Stand including a cockney barrow > boy. >

same can be said for any magazine that has a huge circulation. Wire again. Like I said, articles (and editorials) upon articles have stated that they think drum and bass is dead. But when grooveriders album is released they suddenly do a feature and tout it as thought provoking. Please.

quoted 5 lines ps. does anybody remember the SLUT TRAX 12" jockey slut put out,

> > ps. does anybody remember the SLUT TRAX 12" jockey slut put out, > it had remixes from Dave Clarke, Salt City Orchestra and Fatboy > Slim....... bet that was good then ;-) >

to paraphrase jeff mills, there is not one song the entire planet would agree is shit. as you are meeting a demand they are meeting a demand. -daniel

On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:16:30 -0500 (CDT), you wrote:

quoted 3 lines same can be said for any magazine that has a huge circulation. Wire

>same can be said for any magazine that has a huge circulation. Wire >again. Like I said, articles (and editorials) upon articles have stated >that they think drum and bass is dead.

you mean an individual, or individuals, have said that. and they are allowed to, you know. the wire is still interesting because the writers don't necessarily tow the party line.

quoted 3 lines But when grooveriders album is

>But when grooveriders album is >released they suddenly do a feature and tout it as thought provoking. >Please.

that is the purpose of magazines you know, to bring product to the attention of consumers. <waves> Subconscious Geography http://www.sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk +/sale +/cdr

jeff salamon wrote:

quoted 15 lines Chaircrusher wrote:

> > Chaircrusher wrote: > > > YOU try putting out an expensive > > color magazine, attract advertisers, and attract enough readers > to justify > > your ad prices, etc. When I read those mags, I'm struck not by their > > shortcomings, but by how much they GET RIGHT, despite being > pulled several > > different directions at once by the forces that would put them out of > > business. > > wooo! at last -- a note of sensible, hard-headed realism amidst the > fantasyland pontifications of all the authenticity-poseurs on this list! > >

and i guess the above sentiments have nothing to do w/ hanging around said list of authenticity-poseurs and summarizing what they were rambling about for one of those commercial magazines for a living, now would it? i guess i just woke up cynical today. -martin

martin burbridge wrote:

quoted 23 lines jeff salamon wrote:

> > jeff salamon wrote: > > > > Chaircrusher wrote: > > > > > YOU try putting out an expensive > > > color magazine, attract advertisers, and attract enough readers > > to justify > > > your ad prices, etc. When I read those mags, I'm struck not by their > > > shortcomings, but by how much they GET RIGHT, despite being > > pulled several > > > different directions at once by the forces that would put them out of > > > business. > > > > wooo! at last -- a note of sensible, hard-headed realism amidst the > > fantasyland pontifications of all the authenticity-poseurs on this list! > > > > > and i guess the above sentiments have nothing to do w/ hanging around said > list of authenticity-poseurs and summarizing what they were rambling about > for one of those commercial magazines for a living, now would it? > > -martin

touche'. jeff

quoted 1 line 'I'm from the midwest, and we like people that smile at strangers >>and

>>'I'm from the midwest, and we like people that smile at strangers >>and

have firm handshakes. They are the anti-art fags. you misspelled "rednecks".